TAO for delegate

both Taijitu and TNP delegate sees the inactivity of the region and decide to do something about it.
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Hum....Everyone see the inactivity, but I cannot judge if the two are the same, I have not read the constitution of Taijitsu. I know in Equilism that this thing can be done and his writting in your laws, I dont know if that the same for Taijitsu. Anyway If WW wanted to do something about the Inactivity he needed to follow the laws and constitution of TNP and especially in a Feeders region.

Taijitu by looking into the system and try to find the way to make it better.
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If they are looking in the system, Suggests that they are following the law in Taijitsu?

Inactivity is slowly coming in and some peoples are too comfortable with their position that they don't or don't want to worry about the situation of the region as a whole.
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It's take how much time between his election and his destruction of the constitution for WW to assume that? Because he has a great opportunity to change thing here....but it's my view that he wanted a long time ago to make this traitorous action. When you want something, you made it possible. Did he really worked to bring activity or he just wait to make his move?

Whenever what you told, you lost the trust of people when the information of Khark was released. You can have play the card of change before but now it's look more a manipulation and a invasion.
 
Oh...just one another thing, It's funny to see that many region who where in the Neutral Conference are in the moment making move. I have read all the summit and I know now that this conference was the first step of this crazy move. Hope guys, you will not go in rampage like was told.
 
Felasia:
Trying to con people by an amnesty is just a way of eliminating one's enemies by other means. Funny, isn't it? Someone commits a criminal act by going rogue and then he is going to offer his victims 'amnesty' for the crime of not being traitors and collaborators?
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We offer you amnesty because we do care about TNP future. The different between you and the Crimson Order is that we recognized the past, but we don't cling to it. About going Rogue... check Taijitu and tell me if that is another delegate going rogue or not.
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All the Criminal Order cares about is holding onto dictatorial power and squashing anyone who stands in their way. Yeah, the Criminal Order recognizes the past - they are following in the footsteps of UPSRail, Francospain, Great Bight, and Pixiedance. Sounds like you are clinging to the worst that the past has to offer. If you forget history, you are doomed to repeat it - and repeat it the Criminal Order and L&C shall, and they shall fall.

And what the hell does Taijitu have to do with the price of chicken beaks in Mongolia? Stop trying to redirect an argument in inane and irrelevant directions.
 
If they are looking in the system, Suggests that they are following the law in Taijitsu?
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Check the info before you speak.

And what the hell does Taijitu have to do with the price of chicken beaks in Mongolia? Stop trying to redirect an argument in inane and irrelevant directions.
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You're the opposition in both situation because you're losing power in both situation. I'm hoping you will see the similarity of the situation, but anything that is new isn't your style.

It's take how much time between his election and his destruction of the constitution for WW to assume that? Because he has a great opportunity to change thing here....but it's my view that he wanted a long time ago to make this traitorous action. When you want something, you made it possible. Did he really worked to bring activity or he just wait to make his move?
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Surely you must see that any attempt to change thing here is oppose without any justification or any reason by some of the members here just because it isn't the same and might destroy the power that they have. That give us a deadlock so what L&C do is break the lock.
 
Check the info before you speak.
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It's a question! I dont know, this why I question you!!!!!! QUESTION! :duh:

You're the opposition in both situation because you're losing power in both situation. I'm hoping you will see the similarity of the situation, but anything that is new isn't your style.
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Because they has some opposition in Taijitsu? or it's a concensus? and again is a question here!

Surely you must see that any attempt to change thing here is oppose without any justification or any reason by some of the members here just because it isn't the same and might destroy the power that they have. That give us a deadlock so what L&C do is break the lock.
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I cannot read all the post of WW here but it's seem that is was not oppose, critize yes but not oppose. Look that is a forum, if they has power is only on admin power because the power was in his hand to do the change, the power of the people. Do you suggest that ADMIN work against him? or they has not the power of the people to get his laws and change in place? If I read correctly the constitution, the RA is the real power. If one man can do change is to get the majority of the RA on his side nothing can stop him. If he has not a majority in RA and that he was not opposse by the ADMIN then he has not right for what he has do. Its not that simple?
 
If one man can do change is to get the majority of the RA on his side nothing can stop him.
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False, actually. If the CLO wanted to stop him, my understanding is that the otherwise unanimous support of the RA would have achieved nothing.

Granted, I'm allergic to reading foreign constitutions, so I may be wrong on that one.

And the situation in Taijitu, what I can see of it, is roughly parallel, with less darkness and drama, to the situation Equilism faced in 2006. A group of older players have decided to institute reforms and have dissolved the constitution, etc. I haven't checked on the level of organized opposition, but there's a good deal of grumbling.

If you forget history, you are doomed to repeat it
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Something that all of TNP should think about. Because really, to a certain extent, coups are an occupational hazard in politically active NationStates regions... but TNP has had more than its fair share. And while a new constitution may help a bit, TAO is right - what really needs to be fixed is the community. Laws define; they do not compel. Unless the people change, the kind of constitution they operate under simply does not make a difference in how they operate.

You know what the real problem is? Apathy. I'll bet my summer stipend that's why so many delegates go rogue in TNP. It's a surefire way to get twice as many TNPers as usual to put real effort into saving the region. It's a certain way to get at least something done.

If you want a democratic government, the people has to exercise its power, or risk having it taken away by someone who feels he can use it better. The best weapon against illegal seizure of power in a democracy is seizing the power that belongs to you and exercising your rights and responsibilities as citizens, yourselves.

Sorry, my two cents - but I've sat through a couple of similar situations in Equilism, now from both sides, and IMO that's really what it amounts to. Because this game is about power, but it's not about the Delegate's UN power; not really. It's about power on the forum - the power to get things done. No matter how many decisions you let the delegate make, if there isn't someone to follow orders, keep up discussion, and execute, the 'executive' will continue to be unhappy.
 
False, actually. If the CLO wanted to stop him, my understanding is that the otherwise unanimous support of the RA would have achieved nothing.
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Someone can inform us on that?

And the situation in Taijitu, what I can see of it, is roughly parallel, with less darkness and drama, to the situation Equilism faced in 2006.
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Thank you for this answer.
 
Karastot:
False, actually. If the CLO wanted to stop him, my understanding is that the otherwise unanimous support of the RA would have achieved nothing.
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Someone can inform us on that?

And the situation in Taijitu, what I can see of it, is roughly parallel, with less darkness and drama, to the situation Equilism faced in 2006.
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Thank you for this answer.
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That's exactly why I want the CLO's duties transfered to the RA as a whole. Its just another level of unneeded bureaucracy, and frankly, the duty of watching over the delegate can be accomplished by a vigilant region in general. Plus, we need a better contingency plan than "Out wait the rogue delegate"- what we need is a very narrow margin between the delegate and the rogue delegate as well as 10-12 or so people who could change their endorsement from one to another at a moments notice or something like that.
 
Karastot:
False, actually. If the CLO wanted to stop him, my understanding is that the otherwise unanimous support of the RA would have achieved nothing.
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Someone can inform us on that?

And the situation in Taijitu, what I can see of it, is roughly parallel, with less darkness and drama, to the situation Equilism faced in 2006.
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Thank you for this answer.
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On your first point -

The CLO tried to stop L&C and he ignored the Constitution and declared everyone who did so criminals and 'revoked' their citizenship by edict without any legal process, right to appeal and without any constitutional authority to do so. L&C made himself judge, jury and executioner.

L&C nullified the Constitution, a power he did not have under the Constitution. He stripped the region of it's military forces and intelligence agencies. He declared himself king. He is a farce, a tyrant, dictator, thug, and general blackguard (pronounced 'blaggard' if you aren't familiar with the term).

The only thing he didn't do was burn the Reichstag and blame it on someone else. Oh, wait, he did, metaphorically speaking.

Then he went on a BanJect spree reminiscent of Krystallnacht.

And don't anyone blanch at the metaphor because the metaphor is exactly correct.

L&C can go straight to Hell.
 
The CLO tried to stop L&C and he ignored the Constitution and declared everyone who did so criminals and 'revoked' their citizenship by edict without any legal process, right to appeal and without any constitutional authority to do so. L&C made himself judge, jury and executioner.
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The right to the legal process is still in place in the delegate government. *Eyeing Khark's trial* I also feel that you ignore the fact that the speaker of your government also ignore the constitution and denied the re-election of the judiciary before the revolution and appoint one person as a delegate.

L&C nullified the Constitution, a power he did not have under the Constitution. He stripped the region of it's military forces and intelligence agencies.
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Military force and intelligence agency have only been restructuring as one organization that covered all job. It is also my understanding that the military forces and intelligence agencies have been inactive before the revolution.

The last part is full of insult and a slightly dangerous part that compare a person with Nazi Germany. So I will skip that one. Is this allow though? I don't think anyone from both side have even made this kind of insult before.
 
The last part is full of insult and a slightly dangerous part that compare a person with Nazi Germany. So I will skip that one. Is this allow though? I don't think anyone from both side have even made this kind of insult before.
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It's true, this situation is complicated dont make this like of insult Romano. YOu dont help your side.
 
Romanoffia:
The only thing he didn't do was burn the Reichstag and blame it on someone else. Oh, wait, he did, metaphorically speaking.

Then he went on a BanJect spree reminiscent of Krystallnacht.

And don't anyone blanch at the metaphor because the metaphor is exactly correct.

L&C can go straight to Hell.
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Oh sure bring up the nazi's again. give those dorks a rest, there long since dead.

I don't know how old you are romanoffia, but you sound like a spoiled child.
Didn't daddy give you enough spankings? :fish:
 
Felasia:
The right to the legal process is still in place in the delegate government. *Eyeing Khark's trial* I also feel that you ignore the fact that the speaker of your government also ignore the constitution and denied the re-election of the judiciary before the revolution and appoint one person as a delegate.
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My trial is a joke. The only reason why its still on is because I let Big D Baby be my defense attorney. He said the High Council had a vested interest in my trial, and I told him he could knock himself out.

Frankly, the way I see it is the longer you do my trial, the more time you waste, which makes me happy.
 
My trial is a joke. The only reason why its still on is because I let Big Baby be my defense attorney. He said the High Council had a vested interest in my trial, and I told him he could knock himself out.

Frankly, the way I see it is the longer you do my trial, the more time you waste, which makes me happy.
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If you feel that way then you should just call it off. If you feel that you don't want to recieve any trial then tell them that. Don't bother showing up. The High Council thinks that you deserve fair trial and yet you don't even care about showing respect to Big D or the Judge who wasted his time on your pathetic case.

Oh and this is just my opinion, but Khark should also be included in Roman Trial.
 
Felasia:
The High Council thinks that you deserve fair trial and yet you don't even care about showing respect to Big D or the Judge who wasted his time on your pathetic case.
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First of all, keep out of TNP matters.

Secondly, the very fact that you consider the trial "pathetic" shows your transparent biases. Clearly WW's government isn't all it's cracked up to be.
 
That's because WW's government is cracked up in the worst way.
 
Since this thread is still alive, does this mean TAO can become delegate for the next three to six months, everyone can endorse TAO only, all foreigners can move out, and the two sides of TNP can sit down and negotiate a mutually agreeable constitution?

Every day compromise is delayed, TNP becomes less important to the Game in general. A war is one thing but stagnation disguised as a war will lead to regional death.
 
First of all, keep out of TNP matters.

Secondly, the very fact that you consider the trial "pathetic" shows your transparent biases. Clearly WW's government isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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Yes, but I'm not a member of High Council so my view doesn't represent them or TNP. My opinion is that the evidence is so clear that I won't bother helping him with the case.

TAO - I would endorse you, but I don't think we would come to any agreement soon.
 
TAO:
Since this thread is still alive, does this mean TAO can become delegate for the next three to six months, everyone can endorse TAO only, all foreigners can move out, and the two sides of TNP can sit down and negotiate a mutually agreeable constitution?

Every day compromise is delayed, TNP becomes less important to the Game in general.  A war is one thing but stagnation disguised as a war will lead to regional death.
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I say you should just send in your UN and get started. I'd endorse you.
 
Felasia:
Yes, but I'm not a member of High Council so my view doesn't represent them or TNP. My opinion is that the evidence is so clear that I won't bother helping him with the case.

TAO - I would endorse you, but I don't think we would come to any agreement soon.
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If you're speaking for Gatesville, then you're interfering in TNP matters. Either don't speak for any region or stop speaking.
 
I'm speaking for myself. I've a nation in TNP for longer then a year so I think I have a right as native.

Knockavale - This is TNP not NP too so I don't really know why you're here either, but I respect your opinion so you might want to respect mine too.
 
Felasia:
I'm speaking for myself. I've a nation in TNP for longer then a year so I think I have a right as native.

Knockavale - This is TNP not NP too so I don't really know why you're here either, but I respect your opinion so you might want to respect mine too.
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Then are you the "enforcer" of gatesville or a tnp person? I think it's more likely the former because despite the fact that you've had a nation for a year, your involvement in either this forum or the ww forum hasn't started until recently.
 
TNP Person, I never have nation in Gatesville.

My involvement in this forum start when I'm Jethnea ambassador to TNP. That's when I left one of my puppet here. Then it slow down and restart after the EM incident and I start getting really active here after the new constitution was drafted.
 
Felasia:
Knockavale - This is TNP not NP too so I don't really know why you're here either, but I respect your opinion so you might want to respect mine too.
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I have just as much if not more claim to be a native.i do respect your opinions but you my friend happen to be supporting a rogue for a little slice of power.
 
I was never promise any power. (And still don't have any *sighs* :P) If you call being district governer a power then you should really see what I do. :P Telegraming new nations and spamming the forum. :D

And you my friend also happen to support a government that don't care to create activity in the region. The only thing they care is that they get the power back.
 
Yep i support them because L and C didnt work within the bounds of the government, he could have inspired and created activity right here but he decided that getting gatesville to invade the region would be best. TNP is nothing but a gatesville and equilism colony. It might be a bit more active,(a short term fix) but id rather be inactive and have a free region than be under the thumb of a foreign power.
 
Felasia:
And you my friend also happen to support a government that don't care to create activity in the region. The only thing they care is that they get the power back.
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Golly, how long has this thread been here? :duh:

These statements are entirely untrue. I have always emphasied the need to recruit from within the regon, and I have personally sent thousands of telegrams to spur interest in the forum.

As for power, I have a different understanding of it than you seem to. I do not seek the delegacy for my own sake, but rather to serve the will of the people. The reason I have the support of so many nations is because they know I will not abuse the power entrusted to me. Frankly, I don't need to be delegate, but we do need someone who will care about the community. Lewis & Clark's actions are deliberately devisive. While a civil war creates a flurry of activity in the short term, in the long run it damages a community.

TAO knows this. He has seen it before. I first met TAO during Great Bight's delegacy. At that time, he was working to bring both sides to the table in an effort to negotiate a resolution to the conflict. He is a capable mediator, and I appreciate his offer to help resolve the current situation. I recognize that it is an endeavor which would require a tremendous amount of work on his part, and his willingness to take on the job is admirable.

At any rate, I am always of the opinion that talks are good, and viable options ought to be explored. TAO, did you suggest something similar to the Crimson Order? If so, what was their response?
 
These statements are entirely untrue. I have always emphasied the need to recruit from within the regon, and I have personally sent thousands of telegrams to spur interest in the forum.
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I know you do. :) I've recieved several of them, but when you do that alone and then let them come here and see how inactive NPA and NPIA is (Not your fault), the justice that abuse the constitution (again not your fault), and the RA that concern more about the fact that they get a title or power then to work and improve the region. (not you fault either) Actually, all the problem come from a certain member of your government. (_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __) Hang man :P

You and Flem are the best z13 government have, both of you are active and contribute to TNP more then anyone else, but we have different view for the future and one must stop if TNP will live.

I've every respect for you GBM. :), but this won't work. Everything will go back to the same old inactivity after we're done.

TNP is nothing but a gatesville and equilism colony.
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Have a look in High Council, no Gatesville member there at all and one of the person you claim to be Equilismers have just come back from retirement and have not take any position within Equilism for more then 5 months. If you mean that then I could HYPOTHETICALLY said that Taijitu is in control of this government... (It's not.... right?)

It might be a bit more active,(a short term fix) but id rather be inactive and have a free region than be under the thumb of a foreign power.
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Going back to inactivity means both side lose. Inacitivty is never considered a democracy especially with same old guy or gals in same old seats doing nothing, but clung to the power.
 
No offense, but Gates keeps talking to me about it, and at least he seems to think TNP is a Gatesville colony.

You guys should really talk to him about that to make sure he isn't getting the wrong idea.
 
Oh, I really think Gates isn't the one with the wrong ideas.

As for Felasia et al... they may have a few wrong ideas, but I'm sure Gates is perfectly aware of and okay with that. If they started getting the right ideas... who knows how things might go between Gates and the "Crimson" party?
 
You couldnt say Taijuiti were in charge, as i presme youre on about flem being involved there. he moved out from TNP to there not from equilism and gatesville to TNP.

Anyway Fel, im taking the next two months off NS due to exams. Hope i havent offended you, its been fun arguing with you and well hopefully we wont have to continue this when I get back ha ha.
 
:offtopic:

Holy dingbats! Is anyone else getting an advert for TAO's spring/summer collection 2008?

Those are some mighty fine threads!

:offtopic:
 
Great Bights Mum:
At any rate, I am always of the opinion that talks are good, and viable options ought to be explored. TAO, did you suggest something similar to the Crimson Order? If so, what was their response?
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I have spoken to L&C. He understands that a prolonged confrontation in TNP will only damage the region. With all the long-term, high-endo players in TNP, it will take months to gain enough influence to begin removing challengers to the big chair. Such a conflict (actually, a stalemate) could go on for years with no side having any clear kind of victory in the ON-SITE game. However, the OFF-SITE game will gradually gravitate to the Crimson forum and this forum will grow moldy. Francos Spain proved that an upbeat and ACTIVE forum can eclipse an established older forum so long as the forum is the one listed at the top of the region page.

A prolonged confrontation will also have debilitating effects on Gatesville.
[size0]/quote=Vizzini/ "You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, ... /quote/ [/size]
Or in this instance, another stalemate in TNP. The longer GV stays entrenched the more damage to its reputation and other game interests. Gates really can't afford to be locked into TNP for a year or more. But by the time he decides to yank the troops, this forum could be an echo chamber.

TAO is still offering to stand in as a compromise delegate for 3 - 6 months IF everyone is willing to endorse only TAO and give the poor region a break from the soap opera drama that has been ongoing for weeks. IF L&C agreed to this would this faction also agree?
 
I'd make a great delegate, but I'm not crazy enough to want it.


And I hope everyone realizes that.






My first command would be that all the women post naked pictures of themselves on the forum. :P
 
Anyway Fel, im taking the next two months off NS due to exams. Hope i havent offended you, its been fun arguing with you and well hopefully we wont have to continue this when I get back ha ha.
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But I like arguing. And maybe we will keep going for the next two months. :P

Khark - Proof and evidence would be better then just words, but I think that action is even louder then words and the TNP high council clearly show that we're not Gatesville puppet or else it will be full of Gates people.
 
Felasia:
Khark - Proof and evidence would be better then just words, but I think that action is even louder then words and the TNP high council clearly show that we're not Gatesville puppet or else it will be full of Gates people.
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I don't do screenshots of MSN conversations.
 
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