Banned by Lewis and Clark

At least 200 of them had their right to choose taken away. How many have been driven from their homeland? How many were ejected without notice?

How can anyone think this is alright?
 
7

seriously, if you think there are more than about 25, then you are believing your own propaganda and should have a sit down in a dark room for a bit.
 
Blue Wolf II:
How many were outsiders who you called up to endorse you?
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How many foreigners has Lewis and Cluck called in to support him, without which he would flub?

Can you say Gatesville? I knew you could!

rogers-767958.png


Look, Crimson King, someone's about to reclaim their region from you!


:lol:
 
We potientally a maximun of 20 nations able to deploy so 150 is a bit of an oversight even for you wolfie, fortunately for you no orders have been given for us to get involved.

I do find it funny you keep running about telling everyone we are involved though so do keep it up.

Edit spellings!!
 
Question.

Did FRA not have a small bitch fest about WW being delegate even *before* he went "rogue"? And yet you expect us to believe that now that WW has gone rogue, the one thing you where freaking out about for months, you're going to do...nothing...

Am I missing something?
 
And that's why L&C is about to get the proverbial boot up the arse. #10 EEE size. ;)
 
Blue Wolf II:
Question.

Did FRA not have a small bitch fest about WW being delegate even *before* he went "rogue"? And yet you expect us to believe that now that WW has gone rogue, the one thing you where freaking out about for months, you're going to do...nothing...

Am I missing something?
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Yep, you are completely missing it all Wolfie - I take it you believe everything Westwind says...at least you're loyal :)

The FRA was concerned about personal relations in regards to us and them working together in the field, and what Equilism was going to develope into...seeing as WW had now surrounded himself with invaders.

Now, if you wan't to keep on spreading the news about The FRA please make sure it's correct...or not I suppose. Doesn't matter.

This just cracks me up realy - everywhere I go I see the phrase "The FRA" I suppose we should thank The Crimson Order for all the advertising :P

fortunately for you no orders have been given for us to get involved.
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Is declaring war on the FRA Gates' odd attempt at 'derpiving' us of our 'interests'? :huh:

Sounds like Gatesville is engaging in yet another exercise in futility with that one!
 
Yeah, it is futile, because to this day - I have never issued not one order for The FRA to get involved in this.
Essentially, making Gatesvilles' declaration of war on the org as a whole quite ridiculous...but, I suppose it is what it is.
 
L&C is on the BanJect spree again. He must really be hurting. Now, where did I see that thread where Gatesville declared war on the FRA.

At any rate, it doesn't really matter. Gatesville and L&C will run rough-shod over everyone until they get their way, which will be never because they are engaging in futility.

However, if L&C can be removed and Gatesville sent on their way, the world will be a much better place.


R
 
A bit worrying. This is a very effective stalling tactic that works well with the influence system.

The idea is that GBM has too much influence to be ejected from the region. However, many of her endorsers do not. Ejecting weak nations who endorse GBM at what I assume to be random has two effects:

1.) The Terrorist effect that scares the average nation out of supporting Z13.
2.) Direct hit to GBM's endorsement count.

GBM's endorsement count has dropped by 12 over the past days, and this in spite of her receiving many new endorsements according to the log. This is a direct effect of the ejections.

At first, it is a basic stalling tactic: The larger the margin, the harder it is to win back the delegacy. It's an uphill battle.

More dangerously, the margin will gradually translate itself into influence, which might eventually lead L&C to be able to ban GBM. I think we can agree that this would be a major defeat for us.
 
It is a sorry way to run a region. The latest rounds of bannings have been native TNP citizens. If L&C can't be bothered to talk to nations, he should at least post a warning in the WFE. Something like "Nations who do not choose Lewis and Clark as Delegate risk banning and ejection."

I have had numerous TGs from folks in TNP who support me, but merely endorse L&C because they are afraid of being banned. Is that any way to live? Under the the thumb of a tyrant?

There are other long-time TNPers who have decided not to endorse either L&C or me. They are so fed up with the nonsense.

L&C's actions are nothing but divisive and destructive. You disagree with him? Off you go. It takes no talent at all to push that ban button. I really thought he was capable of exercising much better leadership skills.

To respond to the concerns about influence, keep in mind that my influence continues to grow, and I am not expending any of it. Plus, at Auxilliary I am way way up the food chain. L&C will never have enough influence to ban me.
 
Admittedly, I didn't know how high an Auxiliary is and I didn't take into account that L&C is expending influence by engaging in this, while yours is building up. Even if he managed to eat into your endorsement count badly enough to make the relative growth cancel this out, he would have to depopulate TNP for it, and risk losing the "honest" support of people like Felasia ("CHANGE! STAGNATION! CHANGE!").

So yeah, the "horror-doom-termination-of-interests" scenario is unrealistic. But he's still buying time, and making the nations of TNP pay for it.
 
(can i just mention, i was flicking through the member list.. and we have a member group for 'rogue delegate'. i LOVE this place x)
 
Ermarian:
Admittedly, I didn't know how high an Auxiliary is and I didn't take into account that L&C is expending influence by engaging in this, while yours is building up. Even if he managed to eat into your endorsement count badly enough to make the relative growth cancel this out, he would have to depopulate TNP for it, and risk losing the "honest" support of people like Felasia ("CHANGE! STAGNATION! CHANGE!").

So yeah, the "horror-doom-termination-of-interests" scenario is unrealistic. But he's still buying time, and making the nations of TNP pay for it.
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The irony is that L&C cannot eject even a minnow with more than about 12 endorsements. I suggest that anyone seeking to be free from being ejected obtain at least 12 endorsements before unendorsing Useless and Cluck. ;D

Oh, and BTW, the reason that L&C stopped ejecting people for about two days was because he didn't have the influence to eject even a non-UN minnow puppet.

That information came from a Gatesville nation who more than gladly offered me more information than I really needed to know.

I can't wait until Gates' own rank and file sends him packing, which should be soon. ;D

Hey, Gates, welcome to Vietnam! :lol:

[edited to keep the Gates Collaborators of The Criminal Order wondering at what else I removed from the post] ;)
 
I suggest that anyone seeking to be free from being ejected obtain at least 12 endorsements before unendorsing Useless and Cluck.
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If this were more widely known, the recent banning sprees could have been stopped in their tracks. L&C has banned 40 nations since last week. If all of these had been endorsing each other...

Seriously, we need to get that organized to head off further attrition.

Edit: Did anyone investigate how influence growth is influenced by relative size of the region and relative endorsement counts of the others? As in, will encouraging everybody to endo-tart at will defeat the purpose?
 
Ermarian:
Edit: Did anyone investigate how influence growth is influenced by relative size of the region and relative endorsement counts of the others? As in, will encouraging everybody to endo-tart at will defeat the purpose?
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I've seen various theories and rumours on this, mostly on the Jolt forums, not sure if anything was ever proved or not.
 
Ermarian:
I suggest that anyone seeking to be free from being ejected obtain at least 12 endorsements before unendorsing Useless and Cluck.
Click to expand...

If this were more widely known, the recent banning sprees could have been stopped in their tracks. L&C has banned 40 nations since last week. If all of these had been endorsing each other...

Seriously, we need to get that organized to head off further attrition.

Edit: Did anyone investigate how influence growth is influenced by relative size of the region and relative endorsement counts of the others? As in, will encouraging everybody to endo-tart at will defeat the purpose?
Click to expand...
The smaller the region, the faster influence grows. I tested this theory in a series of smaller and larger regions.

What plays more than influence level is the number of endorsements you have. It goes like this:

The Delegate can only eject nations of his influence level or lower but only if they have less than 2% of his endorsement level.

If the delegate is higher than a minnow, it's another 2% per level.

For every nation you eject it delays you from increasing your influence level by one day. Ergo, if L&C didn't eject anyone it would now take him 293 days to eject anyone above a minnow who has more than about 12 endorsements.

And there are a few more subtleties that I have uncovered that screw L&C even more. The ability to eject or ban grows exponentially at wither end of the spectrum. Given the equations (which I have worked out with a number of other encryption and mathematics whizzes), L&C is totally cooked and its just a matter of time.

At his current rate, 4 or 5 weeks before he falls. If he doesn't do anything at all, about 12 weeks, if he ejects faster, two weeks. And he and Gates know this because they have worked it out. And that's why he's trying to entice people with amnesty.

I've worked out all the math involving the endorsement rate, ejection rate, ban rate, and overlapping endorsement rates and it is inevitable, that with even the slightest resistance to L&C, he is toast.

And the funny part is that Gatesville's involvement is bringing down the effectiveness of that entire organization quite rapidly.

When are our interests supposed to be terminated? Too bad Gatesville went after the interests that weren't our interests.

:lol:


At any rate, I intend to write up a report and statistical analysis on exactly when L&C goes south and distribute it amongst a number of people who will verify my prediction after the fact.

This is what happens when you have too much computing power and time on your hands. Actually, it takes no time at all, just computing power. :P

I love this game - it's fun to see rogue fools try to play the numbers when they have no idea what they are doing. It's even more fun to watch the results when the codemonkeys and Mods don't carefully analyze their game modifications. :jack:


Asta la baggass!
 
I love this game - it's fun to see rogue fools try to play the numbers when they have no idea what they are doing. It's even more fun to watch the results when the codemonkeys and Mods don't carefully analyze their game modifications.
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I think that the mods wanted to make it possible for natives to overthrow an externally-supported delegate. That we can now win militarily is one of the better things that have happened in NationStates, in my opinion.
 
And there are a few more subtleties that I have uncovered that screw L&C even more. The ability to eject or ban grows exponentially at wither end of the spectrum. Given the equations (which I have worked out with a number of other encryption and mathematics whizzes), L&C is totally cooked and its just a matter of time.

At his current rate, 4 or 5 weeks before he falls. If he doesn't do anything at all, about 12 weeks, if he ejects faster, two weeks. And he and Gates know this because they have worked it out. And that's why he's trying to entice people with amnesty.

I've worked out all the math involving the endorsement rate, ejection rate, ban rate, and overlapping endorsement rates and it is inevitable, that with even the slightest resistance to L&C, he is toast.
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Define "cooked" and "toast"? As far as I know, the influence system alone isn't capable of actually deposing a delegate, so to fall, he has to lose endorsements eventually... how does your trend lead to this outcome?

I'm a budding statistician myself, and while I haven't had the time yet to really gather or analyze a lot of NS data, perhaps we should compare notes. :)
 
Romanoffia:
The irony is that L&C cannot eject even a minnow with more than about 12 endorsements. I suggest that anyone seeking to be free from being ejected obtain at least 12 endorsements before unendorsing Useless and Cluck. ;D
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I hope that is true :D

# Seconds ago: Prisonstate withdrew its endorsement from The Crimson Westwind Kingdom of Lewis and Clark.
# Seconds ago: Prisonstate endorsed The Salty Dogs of Great Bights Mum.
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I received a telegram today from a recently banned nation who had well over 50 endorsements before he was kicked. I think you underestimate the amount of influence it takes to ban a minnow in a feeder. Think of it as a very big pie that is cut into 570 pieces. Most of those pieces are just little slivers. Ivan had to gulp down thousands before he was full. Even Matty gobbled up an enormous number in just one sitting. So my point is... yum, pie! *wanders off to the kitchen.*
 
I'm not an Influence x-purt, but it seems to me that it's tricky to determine how hard it is to kick a given Minnow. A high-endo nation might have less Influence than a low-endo nation that's been here longer.
 
Winter Vacationers:
I'm not an Influence x-purt, but it seems to me that it's tricky to determine how hard it is to kick a given Minnow. A high-endo nation might have less Influence than a low-endo nation that's been here longer.
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I believe nations gain influence every day, and the amount gained is dependant on how many endorsements they have (and whether they are the delegate or not). So, yes, in effect a long term nation with few endorsements could have more influence than a newer nation with lots of endorsements.

Does anyone know if it is possible to lose influence, without using it to eject people or leaving the region?
 
Great Bights Mum:
I received a telegram today from a recently banned nation who had well over 50 endorsements before he was kicked. I think you underestimate the amount of influence it takes to ban a minnow in a feeder. Think of it as a very big pie that is cut into 570 pieces. Most of those pieces are just little slivers. Ivan had to gulp down thousands before he was full. Even Matty gobbled up an enormous number in just one sitting. So my point is... yum, pie! *wanders off to the kitchen.*
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What nation was it? I can look into it and plug in their nation's population into the equation and see if this is the case.

[edit addition]

Ivan didn't have to deal with the 'influence system' in use now. Also, if a nation with 50 endos and a minnow was ejected, they would appear to have only about a 50 million population or less according to the calculations.

Again, if I know the nation name, I can analyze it to see if they are trying to plant a ruse.

But on the whole, If everyone gathers as much endorsements without being ejected, waits for an update and then removes their endorsement from L&C, it is a matter of days instead of weeks for L&C to fall.

The more we keep eating away at him, the faster he falls. He had to quite ejecting for two days because he lost so much influence. If you never listened to me before, this is the time you should listen for sure.

Teach the resistance the old UN Shift and it's a matter of days. Listen, for once. I've been at this for a very long time.

And the irony is that L&C know all of this. Information is power and I think that we should take advantage of the information that L&C knows.

Or we can just sit here and twiddle our thumbs. We know everything about the game mechanics that they do. They are at a disadvantage because we know that they cannot hold on forever or for long, but we must exploit the same features and do constant damage. Don't let up for one second. At the present course, the power to out-last is the power to win. And we can shove that in our advantage even more than we already have. It's a long fight but we will win sooner than we expect if we keep up the constant pressure - and it won't take very many people to do this.
 
Update:
  1. Agoraba
  2. Al Kazaaz
  3. Ali121
  4. Allsgood
  5. Americanmen
  6. Androbie
  7. Angel Dealers
  8. Antonio4
  9. Anystan
  10. Aoi Kiru Usagi Minzoku
  11. Arotianis
  12. Arstiano
  13. Asimus
  14. Askov
  15. Avast ye salty sea dog
  16. Aversiera
  17. Black Bass
  18. Black Thoughts
  19. BlackBriar
  20. Blumfields
  21. Boltor
  22. Boneitus
  23. Broken and Lost
  24. Brusian
  25. Buddley
  26. CaliforniaKhann
  27. Castro Islands
  28. Cayo Loco
  29. Cepaphnm
  30. Cheargh
  31. Cherokeetom
  32. Cheryltyx
  33. Chest Hair of Kyle
  34. Chirochiro
  35. Clintonotopia
  36. Cluj Napoca
  37. Coare
  38. Colin Incorporated
  39. Conservatives states
  40. CoopAaLoop
  41. Coty and Axel
  42. Crazy dictator
  43. Critian
  44. Cruhand
  45. Crystal_28787
  46. Daron Tal
  47. Dealia
  48. Deep Space Ulysses
  49. Demelza
  50. Denivogar
  51. Douglas Place
  52. Dracos - Haven
  53. Dragonoxia
  54. East Kilo Sierra
  55. Ebony Sue
  56. Exotic Snappleberries
  57. Faliace
  58. Fresena
  59. Frigidus Calidus
  60. Galtean
  61. Galvis
  62. Garnertopia
  63. Gefunadun
  64. GodKing Anschluss
  65. grandfolks
  66. Greater Anduril
  67. Green Sturgeon
  68. Guestji
  69. Gwizel
  70. Gyrapo
  71. Halldene
  72. Harodam
  73. HOGTOF
  74. Hrickia
  75. I Feel It All
  76. Identity thieves
  77. Inside Capital
  78. Iowafarmland
  79. Ithaca Guardian
  80. Jingnan
  81. John just did it
  82. Ka-Blam
  83. Kaeshai
  84. Kangolistan
  85. Kaunaoa
  86. Khihalstan
  87. kissofsatan
  88. Kuijper
  89. Le Deluge
  90. Lesser Humana
  91. Light vs Dark
  92. Lord vvader
  93. Melter
  94. Mercenaries127
  95. Michenix
  96. Mintarkilia
  97. MoltianFirePower
  98. Mukeli
  99. Multani Mitti
  100. Music Lit
  101. My two uncles
  102. Namtial
  103. Nearly Free People
  104. Negisikit
  105. New Inertia
  106. Newybia
  107. no LC
  108. Noirpearl
  109. Non-Uniqua
  110. Nordic River Valley
  111. Northeastern Australia
  112. Northgallon
  113. Not Quite China
  114. Noyz Makers
  115. Noyzistan
  116. Ntali
  117. Oakly-warner
  118. Obscenely Large Tengos
  119. Of of Too Many Ofs
  120. Osea 767
  121. Our Ruler is God
  122. Palace Port
  123. Paulnewmania
  124. Payday1127
  125. Peat And Love Whale
  126. Pema1
  127. Phanariotes
  128. Phase Rock
  129. Pino Olimpia
  130. Pookabeara
  131. Portmeilion
  132. Ren Azdil
  133. Repaxan
  134. Reptillonia
  135. Retarded Ex-Presidents
  136. Rethwelen
  137. Roselian
  138. Santa Remus
  139. Scientists Cliffs
  140. Shanou
  141. Shastings
  142. Sheesh sheeshams
  143. Shenrei
  144. Shingol
  145. Shirtsville
  146. Sinking Ship
  147. Smokaland
  148. Smoke Jumpers
  149. Socialist Idealists
  150. Sockeye
  151. Sophistoia
  152. Spanaland
  153. Starkganistan
  154. Steel Toe Boots
  155. Stochos
  156. Stpierre2
  157. SUFEHRA
  158. SunsetAt206
  159. Sutekh-amon
  160. System Alliances
  161. Tab-r
  162. Taterslaw
  163. Teksasu
  164. Terokkar Forest
  165. Test4345323
  166. The Colonial Fleet
  167. The Kehl
  168. The Kennedy Curse
  169. The Ordo Invictus
  170. The PPC
  171. The Silent Knight
  172. The Tribe Of Naphtali
  173. Thefatlady
  174. Three Prongs
  175. Titanica
  176. ToniRocks
  177. Tortuga Port
  178. Towlie Land
  179. Tribal warriors
  180. Uakari
  181. Ugnabad
  182. Unabashed Thinkers
  183. Undisputable Reich
  184. Wandering Messengers
  185. Westwind is Vacuous
  186. White Dragon Empire
  187. Whoala
  188. Wonder Town
  189. XX90
  190. Yaifuz26
  191. Yautjla
  192. Yellabelly
  193. Yo go
  194. Zextheria
  195. ZOMG NATION
 
"#185. Westwind is Vacuous"


That's almost as funny as Ivan ejecing "His Own Mother" and then bitching about that nation name to the Mods! :lol:
 
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