TNP vs. Mesian

I was reading some of the backlogged private cabinet discussions. I will not divulge the specifics of what was said. I am refering to one of the threads in the private cabinet forum of August 06 - April 07. From what I read from the thread that deals with this situation and I refer to Grosse's posts and posts by a few other members. And to note Grosse was the PM at this time. It seems to confirm that the general opinion was that there was a good chance that Mesian was actually acting under the orders of the NPIA director.

And from what I gleamed I was impressed with Mesian's conduct there. He made sure he followed protocol and made sure that he went through the proper channels in regards to divulging classified information.

I find what I read to be an interesting revelation in regards to this case. I hope I am not out of line for referencing this. I have left out names and have not posted any specific comments or statements made by folks.
 
You may want to hold that back for the trial, Tex.

In any case, Gaspo and I are completing negotiations to allow him to give his testimony. I will, again, request that the deposition remain sealed, for the reasons I have given. At this point, the witness is the person most able to clear the current point regarding statute of limitations, and I don't believe we would not want him to withhold information for fear of a hostile or damaging response to its revelation.
 
Byardkuria:
You may want to hold that back for the trial, Tex.

In any case, Gaspo and I are completing negotiations to allow him to give his testimony. I will, again, request that the deposition remain sealed, for the reasons I have given. At this point, the witness is the person most able to clear the current point regarding statute of limitations, and I don't believe we would not want him to withhold information for fear of a hostile or damaging response to its revelation.
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It just further shows that most of the charges here are bogus and should be dimissed. And the only charge that can honestly and truly stick is that Mesian divulged confidential information. Thanks Tex!
 
Gaspo:
I will not be giving any deposition.
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Does this officially mean the negotiations between the AG and Gaspo are finished?

edit:
Does this answer in a different thread mean the AG office does not follow up the filed charges any longer?
If yes, please confirm here in this official thread.
 
1. Apologies, Joshua.

2. Gaspo has reconsidered his declination, and we are (hopefully) going to be able to come to an agreement directly, get a deposition in, and get this thing going.

3. This referenced thread indicates only that the Region is not going to be charging Mesian with violation of the NPIA confidentiality provisions - the charges as listed in the indictment stand.
 
Byardkuria:
1.  Apologies, Joshua.

2.  Gaspo has reconsidered his declination, and we are (hopefully) going to be able to come to an agreement directly, get a deposition in, and get this thing going.

3.  This referenced thread indicates only that the Region is not going to be charging Mesian with violation of the NPIA confidentiality provisions - the charges as listed in the indictment stand.
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Thank you for the apology Byard it is much appreciated.

Secondly, I do not see how you can possibly leave those charges to stand when the only true charge, that there is any evidence to back up, is being dropped? I really fail to understand this?

And I will be leaving today around to travel around for 3 - 4 weeks, and will not be active on the forum much at all.
 
The Attorney General has come to an agreement with Gaspo that may enable us to clarify the circumstances relevant for a decision regarding time limitations. The Court has agreed to keep the obtained information enclosed, therefore:

TNP Court Ruling:
ENTERED THIS 20th DAY OF MAY, TWO THOUSAND SEVEN

Before the Court of the North Pacific, Associate Justice Leland Gaunt presiding

Judicial Ruling regarding the deposition of Gaspo to clarify time limitation in the case TNP vs. Mesian.

The Court of The North Pacific hereby rules that the deposition of Gaspo must remain sealed and only made available to the Court, the Attorney General and the Defense Counsel.
Any violation shall be subject to prosecution.

Signed,

Leland Gaunt
Associate Justice of the North Pacific
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Thank you, Your Honor.

RL prevents me from being able to gain this testimony this weekend, but I will have it as soon thereafter as we are able to coordinate - I will keep the Court updated.
 
I have an appointment with the deponent this evening - the testimony will be sent to Defense counsel and the presiding Justice by PM as soon as I can turn it around.
 
Was this sent to Galapagos Isle? Mesian? I assumed Galapagos was taking over for me based on our conversations and my being MIA due to a traveling/backpacking trip. Though I had to end that early because I came down wtih vertigo. I will be active for most of this weekend.
 
Joshua:
Was this sent to Galapagos Isle? Mesian?
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The deposition results were sent to the Court (Mr.Gaunt), the Defense Counsel (Joshua) and Gaspo by AG Byardkuria. I have forwarded the message to the account "Joshua" in case there had been issues with the PM.

The Court asks the Defense Counsel to review the deposition and sent comments to the Presiding Judge (Mr.Gaunt) via PM.
 
*Some random lawyery dude walks through the court doors and right up to the bench of Mr. Gaunt. He promptly places in front of him the death certificate of the Defendant, and turns to both those sitting in the court room, and those in the peanut gallery;

"I regret to inform you of the death of Mesian. After being found guilty of crimes by the NPO, he was burnt at the stake. I am unsure on whether the AG will be interested in continuing to try a dead man, but hey, what ever bobs your ducky! Also, by his request, I am to read the following to the peanut gallery - go shove it up your arse."

Adjusting his jacket, he looks at his watch and proceeds to move out of the courtroom, stopping just before the door, he casts his eyes to the corner of the room, and he feels a flame on his tongue as he begins to speak words of another;

"Regardless of what many may think, I see TNP as my home, and I will haunt her seas until the day comes, when the servers crash, and NS is no more. The gate will be open to the greater beyond, those who have fallen will rise from her murky depths, led by the greater good, into a place greater then any region in the world. It is here that our just deserts will be served, with a beef banquet everyday, as both feederites and userites dine at one table, waited on by the inquisitors, the tables turned. Keep true to your word, and serve those around you! Forget the childish woes of domestisty, you, the people of TNP, are destined to lead NS to a new world order. Work for the greater good, and you will surley be rewarded..."

With that, the window above the Peanut Gallery shatters and the light shines through onto the courtroom floor, where the words can be read;

Justice - Security - Democracy

His tongue cooled, the lawyer dude walks out the door.

*Mesian takes his seat amoungst others at the great table in the clouds (at which it is christmas everyday), he looks at the man next to him,

"I cannot wait for the day when they all shall sit at this table, forever in peace, but until then, may they remember those 3 words, and hold them close to their hearts, for they are the ones who lead the way in the world below"

...
 
I am not sure why I am still defense counsel as I have left numerous messages in these threads. I am not the defense counsel I had resigned at least a week ago due to traveling around the country. I was not expecting my return this weekend, but had a freak case of vertigo.

I can still review the deposition. Though the main gist seemed to be that Gaspo had some idea of Mesian's dual identity, but no real idea it was a NPIA op till the campaign thread fiasco. So, therefore by that account the statute of limitations has not run out.

I still find it troubling that this court continues to pursue the charges that are the weakest and will be rather impossible to prove using evidence that we have. And the charge of divulging classified information was dropped, considering this was the one charge that could have been proved without any doubt and there was actual evidence to support a charge of guilty.
 
We have already an official trial thread and a discussion thread on Mesian. This should suffice.
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This was Mr Gaunt's reply to my message over in the charges thread which has been locked, but it essentially said the samething as my above post.

I am not sure how this is a relevant response to my inquiry on why the only real charge that has evidence to prove it happened was dropped while the other less than substantial charges are sticking? I am not saying any of the cahrges are less important or serious, but there is only so much evidence here. Given Hersfold not being responsive and most of the records were torched.
 
If you feel there is a charge which the Region will have an easier time prosecuting, we are always open to suggestions and/or plea-bargains.

As for the "death" of the defendant, the concept of a permanent demise in NationStates is a myth at best, and the prosecution urges the Court to disregard the statement issued above referencing such.
 
Mesian no longer has any nation in TNP and is no longer a member of the Regional Assembly. It would be pointless to continue this trial seeing as even if Mesian was found guilty there is no way to punish him.

I submit that if the Judge does want to continue this trial he view Mesian's withdrawal as an automatic plea of guilty.
 
Blue Wolf II:
I submit that if the Judge does want to continue this trial he view Mesian's withdrawal as an automatic plea of guilty.
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And your official role in this trial is ... ???
Thank you for not posting here unless asked or appointed.

Joshua:
I am not sure how this is a relevant response to my inquiry on why the only real charge that has evidence to prove it happened was dropped while the other less than substantial charges are sticking?
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Answer is simple: The Attorney General has filed something official. This has lead to our current trial. We will look into every issue the AG has filed. Everything else is totally irrelevant unless filed before the Court. If you like to discuss something else, don't do it here, Sir.

The Court will need one or two days to clarify the legal implications of those unusual "death" circumstances. Thanks for your patience.

*goes off mumbling*
 
Blue Wolf II:
Mesian no longer has any nation in TNP and is no longer a member of the Regional Assembly. It would be pointless to continue this trial seeing as even if Mesian was found guilty there is no way to punish him.

I submit that if the Judge does want to continue this trial he view Mesian's withdrawal as an automatic plea of guilty.
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BW simply made a valid point and is not alone in his testimant. I to feel the same.

If you feel there is a charge which the Region will have an easier time prosecuting, we are always open to suggestions and/or plea-bargains.
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Didn't I already state this in my previous post? Let me restate it then. The easiest charge with the most evidence is the charge of divulging classified information.

Of the charges you are persuing and there are 3 I believe. The first 2 seem null and void as it seems blatantly obvious he was acting on orders from then director of the NPIA Hersfold. Though, any testimony from Hersfold sems impossible to obtain (I tried via PMs), and Hersfold's records have been deated.

And according to mesian charge 3 also seems tough to prove. By that I mean what you call force against another region was apparently apart of his orders. Once again Hersfold is non responsive and the records have been destroyed have they not?

And at this point it seems like political grandstanding. He has all but left NS, has no nation in TNP and has revoked his RA membership.
 
The prosecution would like to address a query to the Defense counsel, and would like clarification on whom that is at the moment, exactly.
 
Since TNP is still struggling defining duality, player etc. I experience slight difficulties to get a proper and strict Constitution or Law based decision. This makes it necessary to find a different solution, becoming a bit Solomonic if you will.
I am happy to accept the "death" of Mesian under the following restrictions:

- The former TNP nation of Mesian CTEs latest 15th July
- The TNP forum account "Mesian" may no longer be used for governmental activities
- Reference to former activities have to be erased from the forum account signature
- If the forum account shall be used for governmental activities, it may be renamed, not using any reference to Mesian (e.g. no "New Mesian", "Mesiana" or similar)
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Currently, the Mesian forum account is in full use and shows NPA references in the signature. This is not what I understand as deceased.
 
1. Your Honor, the Region objects to the former Defense counselor's attempts to characterize the filed charges as "unconstitutitonal" and "unethical". While I understand that all persons are entitled to their opinions, this type of prejudicial invective is inappropriate in a formal courtroom setting, and the Region requests it be stricken.

2. The Region also objects to the current trend of uninvolved parties being permitted to post within the Court. A separate thread was created solely for that purpose, and the Region requests those posts be moved to that thread.

3. I am aware that it is highly irregular, but the current Defense counsel (Galapagos Isle) has requested I post the following PM, received by me at 1140 US Central Time, June 9.

Ok, sorry I haven't been on lately but I am a camp counsler at Camp Crooked Creek. (home page- www.campcrookedcreek.com ) Ok, now about Mesian, I have been gone and just got back to check in and the Defense councel (me and counting Joshua) agree to the terms which are stated. I'm sorry I haven't been on for a while but it was due to I have no computer at summer camp where I'm working with internet. I will however be online every saturday till july 21st. Then I will be active daily again.

~Galapagos Isle
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If it please the Court, the Region wishes to issue a stay of prosecution in this case, to expire on July Sixteen, Two Thousand Seven. At that time, the Region will examine the Defendant's compliance with the terms as stated, and, assuming full compliance, withdraw all charges as stated in the indictment filed May Eight, Two Thousand Seven.
 
OT: Sorry for the delay, RL weather and stress prevented me from dealing with such judicial matters properly.

The Court agrees with points 1 and 2 raised by the Attorney General and thanks for splitting the thread. It is highly inappropriate :mad: to enter the court room as uninvolved party and cry out loud unwanted opinions, not observing court rules.
The Court hereby announces that such behaviour will not be accepted and reserves its rights to exclude certain parties from trials for a period of time due to contempt of court.

TNP Court Tentative Ruling:
ENTERED THIS 15th DAY OF JUNE, TWO THOUSAND SEVEN

Before the Court of the North Pacific, Associate Justice Leland Gaunt presiding

Judicial Ruling in the case TNP vs. Mesian

The Court issues a stay of prosecution until
JULY 21st TWO THOUSAND SEVEN
in the above mentioned case.

All charges filed against Mesian are automatically suspended on
JULY 28th TWO THOUSAND SEVEN
unless objection is filed by the Attorney General, the Defendant or his Counsel.

Following restrictions are mutally agreed between
the Attorney General and the Defendant and his Counsel:
- The former TNP nation of Mesian CTEs latest 15th July
- The TNP forum account "Mesian" may no longer be used for governmental activities
- Reference to former activities have to be erased from the forum account signature
- If the forum account shall be used for governmental activities, it may be renamed, not using any reference to Mesian (e.g. no "New Mesian", "Mesiana" or similar)

Restrictions are valid until JULY 28th TWO THOUSAND EIGHT.


Signed,

Leland Gaunt
Associate Justice of the North Pacific
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FILED BEFORE THE COURT OF THE NORTH PACIFIC


In accordance with earlier statements by the Prosecution regarding the demise of the nation Mesian, the North Pacific hereby withdraws all charges against Mesian as enumerated in the indictment filed with this Court on May Eight, Two Thousand Seven, as the Defendant has complied fully with all conditions set out by the Prosecution.

Entered this Seventeenth day of July, Two Thousand Seven,


(signed)
Byardkuria
Attorney General of the North Pacific
 
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