Pacific situation

Gatesville. Theiy have a large militia.

Their sponsorship of the new order in the pacific is troubling. Especially if the imperialistic tendencies of the new ruleset begins to materialize.
 
Cthul Murgos:
Gatesville. Theiy have a large militia.

Their sponsorship of the new order in the pacific is troubling. Especially if the imperialistic tendencies of the new ruleset begins to materialize.
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That could be very bad. They could easily over power any military force currently in the other feeders - if worst came to worst and we needed to invade the Pacific for some reason, Gateville could counter our every endorsement.

Should an invasion become necessary for whatever reason, however, I'm almost certain we could drum up significant support from our allies, including but probably not limited to:
Lemuria
ADN
RR
Lazarus
Some of the other Pacifics
Government
Heck, even the Order of Gryphons would probably join up if we asked.

We've got fairly good relations with a number of influential regions and organizations. If necessary, I think we could dump Ivan with a well-placed plan.

OOC: Let's not fail to mention the massive propaganda campaign they're running in Cybernations, under the guise of it being a nationstates thing. They're trying to humanize themselves to their enemies, and possibly gain support into NS.
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CN is completely separate from NS. Proven by the fact that while I'm not liking Ivan too much here, I run around the CN forums shouting "Hail Emporer Moldavi!" :pinch: :lol:

However, that may help us gain some ground with the ADN in the event we need their help. Pope Hope is a little pissed off at Ivan for thrashing the ODN.
 
I think you've overlooked one ally that we really should think of as such, who, for all intents and purposes, are now a legitimate organiziational force that we should consider making more formal relations with. LWU. While raiding is no longer technically possible, especially within the mentality that once existed, invasions are. Their experience and organization could be possibly critically assistive.

The NP Wolves, while a joke at the beginning of the month, may take on a whole new meaning.

The Rejected Realms should be our greatest ally. It's really too bad they're not too interested in international relations it seems.
 
Should an invasion become necessary for whatever reason, however, I'm almost certain we could drum up significant support from our allies
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As probably the smallest regional army in NS, however, PoD, would also help.
 
Cthul Murgos:
I think you've overlooked one ally that we really should think of as such, who, for all intents and purposes, are now a legitimate organiziational force that we should consider making more formal relations with.  LWU.  While raiding is no longer technically possible, especially within the mentality that once existed, invasions are.  Their experience and organization could be possibly critically assistive.
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:lol: To be honest, that hadn't even occured to me. You've got a darn good point, though... Having two rather high-ranking members of LWU active in our government would rather help relations... They'd probably have a better idea of how to run an invasion anyway.
Edit: That would be so hilarious if we could get the ADN to fight alongside an invader group. :rofl:

From what I've seen though, Moldavi isn't in charge anymore? Supposedly BlackAdder has his nation back and is trying to stabilize things. We should still keep an eye on things, though - since he gave his nation to Moldavi in the first place, I've no idea what his intentions are.
 
Sorry for the mixed messages Cthul Murgos, have you posted the statement yet?

The truth is, it is better to hold off on posting the statement and withdrawing our embassies would seem like we were expecting civil strife. So given this new potentially volatile situation, I change my vote to NAY. It seems we're back to wait and see, native support being key. I find Pacific politics a lot like Russian politics, a lot of posturing and saluting about patriotism but a lot secret powerplays and once insurmountable leaders getting suspicious "aneurysms" right before they declare a major shake up. I also think of this as another glaring example of Cabinet dithering.

I have no right to admonish any of you, I may have been here longer but some of you guys are the defining features of this region but for the love of god speak up!! If you have RL concerns then warn us but lurking during cabinet discussions doesn't help anybody. It only breeds apathy and confusion. It may be more diplomatic to keep quiet and see where the debates end but I would think we would all trust each other enough to agree to disagree without fear of repercussions. I mean as rabid as I am about endo caps, my old tactic of raising a big stink in every forum possible with insinuations of supporters being secretly Fascist wasn't even considered this time. :eyebrow: When it's my loveable loudmouth deputy getting the last word on every thread, something is horribly wrong.

My point is that our political system works, this is the most peaceful our region has been in a long time with even our age-old paranoia subsiding. Many talk of streamlining this or that, but I disagree if we all keep a constant voice while being mindful of public will I believe that our form of government could be even more efficient than the Pacific. (without all their petty power plays too!) So c'mon, lets make this work and stop confusing Cthul Murgos with the silence!!
 
Hersfold:
That would be so hilarious if we could get the ADN to fight alongside an invader group.  :rofl:
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Times change, and those that don't grow and change with them will fall behind. Amusing though it may be, I am convinced this Pacific will be more and more of a threat in the time to come.

At this point, the Pacific has only a consulate because of their governmental change. The best thing we can do is merely to not agree to anything more. We should also look into strengthening military pacts with organizations directly in opposition to the Pacific. We've worked too hard and too long for the peace Mr. Sniffles speaks of, and we should prepare ourselves to defend it.

I agree a statement is no longer needed at this time.
 
You so sure about that?

The Civil Code for Uniform Justice and Order in The Pacific

These offenses are punishable by banishment to the Realms of Rejection.

Section I, Civil Disobediance:

101: A declaration of dislike for the Delegate of The Pacific or his policies with intent to subvert the Government.

102: Insulting or spreading calumny about a member of the Government in public or in telegram.

103: Frequent posts of an inappropriate subject on the Regional Messageboard or official government forum.

104: Harassment of a fellow Pacifican either in public, by telegram or by personal message.

105: Giving your endorsement to a nation with whom you are not familiar personally. (All nations in The Pacific are familiar with the nations that govern them.)

106: Unauthorized use of another nation's flag or other details as your own.

107: Objectionable nation name, flag or motto.

Section II, Political Accountability:

201: Expression of dislike for the policies of The Pacific Government or those Governments allied with or declared friendly by The Pacific Government.

202: Expression of views considered counter to those of The Pacific Government.

203: Failure to become aligned with the Delegate via UN endorsement and political policy.

Section III, Treason:

301: Seeking more than 30 endorsements.

302: Being a puppet of a banned nation.

303: Assisting those seeking more than 30 endorsements.

304: Belonging to a subversive organization.
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Copied from Namyeknom's post in the DC forum.

This is extremely dictatorial, and I would not be surprised if mass bannings that are supposedly "lawful" start very soon. I would be even less surprised if a rebellion group was formed in a few weeks.

Things are getting worse...
 
I think another one needs to be drafted, or perhaps a stone wall of silence would be better.

I maintain what I've said so far. To take no action to prepare ourselves will be suicidal, because I fear we are the biggest, most vunerable target.
 
I will state this yet again, unless I recieve a declaration of war against The Pacific, I have no intention of invading it. I am not going to send troops into there, leave us bottled up there, and make fools of ourselves by fighting what seems to be a almost native-supported regime. Though I clearly dislike the system there, I am not so radical or blinded to know what fights to fight... Until elections are over and I clear my office, no NPA will enter Pacifican territory without my authorization. I really hate to do this, but if I find out I will be forced to kick people out of the NPA. I do not want war with them unless we have to, and I'm not going to let them have a reason to want a war with us.

Internal defence of the region will be key, as I said keep a watch to the southern borders, and be on guard.
 
Forced to agree with Dalimbar there. Until the Pacific native show some balls we cannot really go in guns blazing. Sadly, they seem so pussy-whipped that they quickly default to "hail". Pathetic, really.

Nor do I think it would do us any good getting bogged down in a feeder war which would quickly turn into a war of attrition and rhetoric.

Seasons turn in NS.
eventually they will moderate, as the original NPO did
Or they will lapse into inactivity, as the PRP did.

For now let us just watch them spank one another. :npo:
 
Still, it's not just the feeder I'm worried about. It's their new link with Gatesville that has me biting my nails (harder than usual).

I'd recommend forming some sort of preemptive defense against this. Mass recruiting for the NPA, possibly some alliances... I'm working on increasing NPIA membership now.

With the situation getting a bit more edgy, I should probably notify you all (those who didn't already know or figured it out already), I am the Director of the North Pacific Intelligence Agency. If you lot need intel about anything in order to do your duties as Minister, I will try to see that you get something.
 
I am not for the outright invasion of anyone. I am not stupid, I know well our situation. I am merely advocating we set ourself up to be able to defend ourselves, which in our current state...

I am fully behind Hersfold in a recruitment drive for the NPA/IA, as well as an aggressive pursuit of alliances. They may end up being nothing, but I'd prefer not to be on the recieving end unprepared should the Emperor grow suffecient balls to invade.
 
[12:54] BlackAdder: Someone want to explain why we have recruiters from the NP harassing us now as well please?
[13:02] BlackAdder: I'm not impressed and I want this stopped, this is not a can of worms you want opened.
[13:02] BlackAdder: good day
[13:02] *** BlackAdder has left #tnp.
(bolding mine)


Anyone? I think the excuses and threats have begun.
 
Yes they have. I just got banned.

I personally believe that we are allowed to recruit just as much as anyone else here. Any volunteers to do the Pacific tomorrow? It's a cut-and-paste job, the only reason I got caught was because I made a few edits before posting.
 
Ok, then. Tommorrow (not today), preferably when it doesn't seem BlackAdder is active, move on in and post the message I posted in the Internal Policy forum there. Get out as fast as you can.

Edit: IRC log posted without author's consent on the grounds of regional security
<Moo-Cows> Continuting to recruit on our RMB will be considered a hostile act

<Mussolandia> I will instruct Gatesville to recruit heavily from the North
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I think this should show the less convinced the agressiveness of the NPO.

I will not stand for us to appease these uncouth, drooling morons. We will not become as TWP has, a de-balled, conqured feeder.
 
Ok, let's not go insulting people.

However, now that we've been flat-out threatened, a statement does need to be made. Something to the effect that we will not back down to threats made against our soveignty or something.
 
Fedele:
I have an infallible strategy I have been waiting for a reason to use... God bless influence.
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The pacific hasn't fallen yet; I really can't understand why the former cabinet thought TNP could do it.

Half our army would curl up and cry at the first mean word.
 
Ummm is this open to the public??

Because the RA has yet to pass a measure on this issue but current laws have a clear and well defined statement about the treatment of this information and the juridiction of both cabinet and the Security Council.
 
Digitalis:
You're only worried because it makes people look bad ;)
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No because as you will soon learn, Cabinet discussion is about examining responses to each and every situation from all possible angles. We don't have a chief executive to overrule all other cabinet members for a reason. Cabinet decisions are made by collective agreement, where we all pool our wide variety of views and values to form one cohesive message.

Usually I'm for total disclosure but this actually deals with strategies should a conflict arise with a certain region that has reverted back to an old and hostile form which we have warred with in the past, and has tried to openly subvert our government. They've made public their capacity for an aggressive response and as is our duty, we responded at the very least by analysing it. During our peaceful times certain members of their government (the doves if you will) were in place and respected enough to curb even the most wild conspiracy theories, now they have been forced out. The possibility of us being invaded or in a diplomatic war are much closer than they were three months ago. We all wish for peace but we cannot turn a blind eye to the possibility for war, should all our fears come true.

In fact we'd be remiss and heavily criticized for having our heads in the sand if we didn't consider these options.
 
mr_sniffles:
No because as you will soon learn, Cabinet discussion is about examining responses to each and every situation from all possible angles. We don't have a chief executive to overrule all other cabinet members for a reason. Cabinet decisions are made by collective agreement, where we all pool our wide variety of views and values to form one cohesive message.
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I've served on the cabinet twice (as Minister of External Affairs), Mr Sniffles; this is also my second time as a deputy (I was previously deputy MoIIA).

Oh, I've also been Ambassador-General, if that counts for anything. Talking to me like i'm some freshly-dropped turd is not the way to go.

Usually I'm for total disclosure but this actually deals with strategies should a conflict arise with a certain region that has reverted back to an old and hostile form which we have warred with in the past, and has tried to openly subvert our government. They've made public their capacity for an aggressive response and as is our duty, we responded at the very least by analysing it. During our peaceful times certain members of their government (the doves if you will) were in place and respected enough to curb even the most wild conspiracy theories, now they have been forced out. The possibility of us being invaded or in a diplomatic war are much closer than they were three months ago. We all wish for peace but we cannot turn a blind eye to the possibility for war, should all our fears come true.
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This thread deals with paranoia and warmongering; I wouldn't want this to be realeased anymore than you would because of that. I was just stating that the reason for keeping it hidden is ignoble. I am more worried that our last cabinet was prepairing for war without full grasp of the facts, rather than they were prepaired to make a stand; maybe peace /is/ boring for some people.

In fact we'd be remiss and heavily criticized for having our heads in the sand if we didn't consider these options.
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I think you'd be critized more for considering such a belligerant approach without due cause. This sort of thread leads me to question whether Hersfold's performance in the Pacific was not an actual attempt to rally TNP behind the Cabinet for a war.

Of course, this is all in the past, and since you obviously have far more experience with cabinet matters than me, I'll bow to your superior, and belligerent, viewpoint.
 
I apologise, Haor Chall.


It was indeed a select few whom voiced such strange ideas; of course, those that did were of no suprise to me.
 
mr_sniffles:
Digitalis:
Watch your tone, newbie. ;)
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Newbie? In what way can I prove you wrong?
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You can't.

Even if you bring up the fact that you've had a nation in region for longer than me, you still spent the majority of your time as a non-participant in the meta-game ;)

I win!

To be honest, I'm only joking with you. You rub me up the wrong way sometimes, but the majority of the time I'm just messing around.
 
Digitalis:
mr_sniffles:
Digitalis:
Watch your tone, newbie. ;)
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Newbie? In what way can I prove you wrong?
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You can't.

Even if you bring up the fact that you've had a nation in region for longer than me, you still spent the majority of your time as a non-participant in the meta-game ;)

I win!
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Not true at all, I've been a participant during all the big moments in this region and before this breaks out even more ridiculously into who has more street cred...

For someone who's:
served on the cabinet twice (as Minister of External Affairs), Mr Sniffles; this is also my second time as a deputy (I was previously deputy MoIIA).

Oh, I've also been Ambassador-General, if that counts for anything. Talking to me like i'm some freshly-dropped turd is not the way to go.
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You would think they'd know better than to be an UNELECTED alternate, fresh off their appointment to the Ministry of Arts and Entertainment to come troll through the backdated Cabinet discussions and start criticizing past Ministers for their judgement. Deputys are more than welcome to join the discussion but to just jump in on how wrong and pigheaded their predecessors were... "That doesn't seem to be a way to go either."

As for my prior bad attitude, it was a statement about how every good thread has to make way for Fedele's required "sarcasm post." As for more about mistaken tones, please enlighten us again about how we were all gung-ho about war just to spice up the game when the undeniable facts were:

Blackadder has handed his nation to Moldavi
Moldavi has gone on a killing spree

Sound familiar to anyone?
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Defense Minister
Given this, as Minister of Defence of The North Pacific, I urge that all citizens be on their guard just incase. This is a re-run of the North Pacific Directorate. We have seen the affects of this, and we know that this action can not be tolerated in a fellow feeder.
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Erastide:
mmm.... Ivan's having fun. I don't know how much real intent he has to create a government with himself as head. But I don't think it's our place to comment on something where the Senate was dissolved, the nation handed over, and the Senators are now divided. So, I add a little vote for getting rid of the embassy but not issuing anything more then a statement of "feel free to come to TNP".
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Cthul Murgos:
I am not for the outright invasion of anyone. I am not stupid, I know well our situation. I am merely advocating we set ourself up to be able to defend ourselves, which in our current state...

I am fully behind Hersfold in a recruitment drive for the NPA/IA, as well as an aggressive pursuit of alliances. They may end up being nothing, but I'd prefer not to be on the recieving end unprepared should the Emperor grow suffecient balls to invade.
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Dalimbar:
I will state this yet again, unless I recieve a declaration of war against The Pacific, I have no intention of invading it. I am not going to send troops into there, leave us bottled up there, and make fools of ourselves by fighting what seems to be a almost native-supported regime. Though I clearly dislike the system there, I am not so radical or blinded to know what fights to fight... Until elections are over and I clear my office, no NPA will enter Pacifican territory without my authorization. I really hate to do this, but if I find out I will be forced to kick people out of the NPA. I do not want war with them unless we have to, and I'm not going to let them have a reason to want a war with us.

Internal defence of the region will be key, as I said keep a watch to the southern borders, and be on guard.

Flem:
Forced to agree with Dalimbar there. Until the Pacific native show some balls we cannot really go in guns blazing. Sadly, they seem so pussy-whipped that they quickly default to "hail". Pathetic, really.
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In fact all discussions about conflict were based from if Gatesville support culminated to an aggressive action, what would our response be? Other than Apollo-Industria's standard agenda well displayed here and in the Things Fall Apart thread with his disclaimer proudly shown; where is this war-mongering you've claiming just how many hours after being appointed to deputy-ship?

Hmmm... "superior, and belligerent, viewpoint." yeah you were right on the money about that, you just got the wrong guy.

Wow and now the backtrack to "just joking around" real professional. Real nice example of that professionalism and experience you were talking about before. Boy am I going to look forward to working with you this term.
 
mr_sniffles:
Not true at all, I've been a participant during all the big moments in this region and before this breaks out even more ridiculously into who has more street cred...
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Street cred? Pah.

For someone who's:
served on the cabinet twice (as Minister of External Affairs), Mr Sniffles; this is also my second time as a deputy (I was previously deputy MoIIA).

Oh, I've also been Ambassador-General, if that counts for anything. Talking to me like i'm some freshly-dropped turd is not the way to go.
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You would think they'd know better than to be an UNELECTED alternate, fresh off their appointment to the Ministry of Arts and Entertainment to come troll through the backdated Cabinet discussions and start criticizing past Ministers for their judgement. Deputys are more than welcome to join the discussion but to just jump in on how wrong and pigheaded their predecessors were... "That doesn't seem to be a way to go either."
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As a member of regional assembly, and a member of the government, I am perfectly within my rights to voice my concern at the actions of our government. Are you saying that I am not worthy enough to state my opinion? The fact that I am a deputy, and that my office is not a major one (this time round) should be irrelevant. If you cannot take a bit of opposition, then get the hell out of government.


As for my prior bad attitude, it was a statement about how every good thread has to make way for Fedele's required "sarcasm post." As for more about mistaken tones, please enlighten us again about how we were all gung-ho about war just to spice up the game when the undeniable facts were:
Blackadder has handed his nation to Moldavi
Moldavi has gone on a killing spree

Sound familiar to anyone?
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[...deletia...]

In fact all discussions about conflict were based from if Gatesville support culminated to an aggressive action, what would our response be? Other than Apollo-Industria's standard agenda well displayed here and in the Things Fall Apart thread with his disclaimer proudly shown; where is this war-mongering you've claiming just how many hours after being appointed to deputy-ship?
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What Blackadder and Moldavi did has NOTHING to do with TNP... the fact you were talking about taking our previously neutral region into a war sounds very gung-ho to me.

The majority of the thread read like this:

"Oh my god, The Pacific has gone evil again, let's go stick our noses in"

"Yeah, I've got a grudge to settle, let's go stomp all over them"

"But we can't invade them, cos it'll make us look bad..."

"oh yeah, let's support an underground movement then."

I saw in one thread, talk of a war and talk of supporting an underground before the full facts of the matter had even come to light. That is certainly not how things would have been done when I was in the cabinet, and I can't believe that Government has changed so much that this sort of behaviour is acceptable.


Hmmm... "superior, and belligerent, viewpoint." yeah you were right on the money about that, you just got the wrong guy.

Wow and now the backtrack to "just joking around" real professional. Real nice example of that professionalism and experience you were talking about before. Boy am I going to look forward to working with you this term.
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You sir, have no right to question my professionalism when you made your Ministry into a mockery just a few weeks ago.

I see that you really do not have a sense of humour, so yes, I think this term will be quite enjoyable. Hopefully you'll throw your toys of your pram more often; I love it when people begin to realise that they are probably not as great as their mommies tell them.

One more thing, will you actually be able to do something with your ministry this term -- other than make yourself look stupid of course?


heh, once again you have proven that you are a reactive and boorish little oaf, with no notion of any kind of self-moderation. Let me guess, it's always been "my way or the highway" with you, hasn't it?

Please, don't do yourself the injustice of replying to me; you'll only make yourself look worse.

I look forward to working with you, although I doubt what you do all day could constitute as work.
 
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