Iraq War

As I recall, the Taliban rammed two planes into America's landmarks. But then, from other sources, I hear that that was retaliation after the coup we constructed with Britain to invade Iran and other Mid-East countries for oil. Or are we even fighting for oil? My brain hurts. :pinch:
 
Here's an article I wrote about the subject which basically sums up everything I have to say on the subject:

Happy Birthday to the War

Three years old with no end in sight, three years have passed and only now the people start to see, three years gone with oil prices and usage sky high. Over two thousand Americans killed, several hundred thousand Iraqi deaths ignored, bombs shattering silence by night and bombs burning flesh by day, bullets whizzing by schools and hospitals with an entire generation singed with war and despair. Oh, we’ve fought for freedom. We’ve fought for the freedom to starve, the freedom to surrender our freedoms to the barrel of the gun, to surrender to the misery and contagion of OPEC, Haliburton, and greed.

Anger fades to vengeance as we seek those to blame; visions of bodies piling up in mounds, the rotting flesh of arms, legs, and dignity of those labeled “collateral damage,” the young men seeking freedom in Abu Gharib after being rode like a jackass, having his race and religion laughed at, the poor farm boy recruited to die just so that he can go to college, the thousands of boys on both sides killed for the honour and benefit of Osama and Bush; this degradation of our basic humanity. Is Bush to blame? No, the blame shouldn’t be isolated to him alone. The blame is on all of us. For their greed is fed by our own; every time we choose to poison the earth and continue our addiction to oil for the sake of convenience, every time we fall for the lie of a foreign bogeyman, every time we choose to pay less on the backs of others, every time we bloody our hands for material desire. How many more mass graves for 90 cent oil?

Yet pick a point of the globe, the picture is the same: there’s the right to obey, the right to be killed or incarcerated for not obeying, the freedom to give yourself up to a crypto-fascist corporation, or the freedom to starve, the tap, the phone, and the silence of stone, the same children being buried hungry, the same rebel to tame, the masses to distract with female cliche and Hollywood Aristocracy.

And a fourteen year old boy will walk past the smouldering ruins he used to call home, his parents killed by bombings and his brother taken in the middle of the night to a detention camp. The neighbours have fled and his stomach growls as he seeks money and food anyway he can, the familiar faces replaced by armoured white men with guns and brown men draped in dogmatic ceremony promising salvation. They call him brother as they seduce him with tales of after-lives and seventy virgins, he didn’t know what America was before but he knows them now. As they fill his head with tales of evil, corruption, and greed, they hand him a vest of explosives and tell him how and where to fight evil. To make it all stop anyway he can.

Mr. Anchor assure me, that Baghdad is burning, your voice is so soothing, that cunning marching of killing, I need you my witness, to dress this up as bloodless, to numb me and purge me now, of thoughts of blaming you. Yes the car is our wheelchair, my witness you’re coughing, oily silence mocks the legless, boys who now travel in coffins. RATM, 2000.

Let us pause now and reflect on the rationale for this war and the ultimate lessons we have learnt from it. It was originally herald as an example of America’s awesome military might, a move which would completely upset the paradigm of contemporary foreign affairs, and of course be a swift bold move towards winning the War on Terror. Of course, it was not without precedent, in fact everything about the invasion was eerily familiar. The false pretense, the inciting a peaceful populace into a fever of jingoistic hatred and lust for war, the tangled web of interests stretching from imperialism to business, and the continuing excuse of cutting money for social programs to fund useless wars abroad. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, the military industrial complex and their inexplicable million dollar gifts to Lyndon B Johnson, the populace ready and willing to kill anyone in the name of freedom and democracy, the beginning of vast cutbacks of social programs of all sorts from Medicare to education to a bloated “defense” budget now spanning over two-thirds of an American budget of over four trillion dollars. Persian Gulf War the sequel? More like the end of the Vietnam trilogy.

The lessons of Iraq have also been painfully obvious; American military might is quite fallible if not laughable, the willingness of those select business interest to declare war on third world countries and fool the populace is a breathtakingly easy decision (the CEO’s and Presidents feast at night with swollen stomachs while the charred remains of young boys lie smouldering on the side of roads), and of course the unceasing hostilities in today’s world. For those nations who dare to defy American greed, labeled terrorists or rogue regimes, the lessons of Iraq have been glaringly simple and obvious. Quite simply, to successfully defy American imperialism you must: 1) have weapons of mass destruction, 2) be willing to use weapons to mass destruction if attacked, 3) in no way cooperate with UN inspectors, 4) there can be no peaceful resolution without nuclear blackmail or surrendering to American will. Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, thus they had absolutely nothing to stop an American invasion. Without the threat of force (which of course for all the ballyhoo about creating peace and freedom is the biggest lie ever perpetrated in human history,) you will in no way be able to be taken serious in the world stage. Cooperating with the United Nations is a dead end; America will use it as a tool for spying, if nothing is found then they will accuse the enemy of not cooperating, the inspections will be nothing more than a facade to push away the news of a massive military build-up, and allowing the United Nations to strip a nation’s only possible defense against the world’s largest holder of weapons of mass destruction is a suicidal policy. Nations who choose not to surrender to American business interests will be left to continue an arms build-up on the backs of citizens and society’s worst off (North Korea and Iran) or left to surrender and be incorporated into Pax Americana’s hypocrisy (Pakistan and Libya.)

I do not write this in anger but in quiet resignation, this is the way it is and the way it’s been for hundreds of years and will possibly be the way for hundreds of more years. All culminating to that one nuclear strike which will blink humanity out of existence, and we will inevitably support such actions as heroic, as an example of democratic leadership: the type where one man spouts democratic ideals while defying democratic will for the benefit of the masses, the masses being the idiot child who needs to be lead by the hand of our “leaders.” Despite the only example of wars of defense in North America since the twentieth century being Pearl Habour, we will continue to invade and kill in the name of some abstract lie of “defense.” We will export our wars, just like our torture, and give them catchy cold names like Rendition or National Interests or even more pathetically, “taking the fight to the enemy.” So that while we sleep soundly in our warm beds tonight; bombs rain down on homes, bullets fly through nursery rooms, family members will be rounded up in the middle of their slumber, and we will continue to provide more reasons for people to strap themselves to bombs and kill us in return. An eye for an eye is obsolete, a bomb for a bomb and inflicting the heaviest death tolls possible is the new truth. Ok, I wrote that last part in searing anger.
 
In comparison with other wars, the war in Iraq has cost America relatively little both in terms of lives and money.

Besides, really, the war is over. This is just putting the pieces back together and the Iraqis are already catching up to speed and getting their military better equipped and trained.

I'm not really in support of the war because I think our attention should have been placed elsewhere but I think it is foolish of people to make it sound as if America has slit its wrists with this war.
 
The CIA overthrew the democratic government of Iran and installed the military dictator, aptly named the Shah. Not a lunatic fringe idea at all, in fact the US government openly admits this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#History
I'm well aware of that. But saying they're finally getting us back for something that happened around 60 years ago is not very believable. Also I think the Iranians already had their vengeance, Hostage Crisis ring any bells? And it wasn't the Iranians that crashed the planes into the World Trade Center anyway. It was mostly Saudi Arabians. The Prime Suspect for 9/11 did it because we are evil, support Israel, and we had military bases in Saudi Arabia, which is where the holy sites of Mecca and Medina are located. So yeah, lunatic fringe.
 
Having fought in Gulf War 1, I though it was imensely silly not to take out Saddam Hussein the first time around. Instead, the US agreed only to remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait. The strategy of the first Gulf War was not dissimilar to invading Europe in WWII and only pushing Germany back to its borders and not taking down the whole regime.

I get a real kick out of those who liken Gulf War 2 to 'Vietnam'. Iraq bears no more resemblence to Vietnam than a toaster does to a bicycle strategically, tactically, politically or otherwise. If the US instantly pulled out of Iraq right now, the whole operation would be an abject failure just like Vietnam was, but for very dissimilar reason.

The US military was hog-tied in Vietnam and prevented from effectively waging a war for the neccessary military end of making the enemy incapable of continuing the fight. In Iraq, the situation is very different. We have won the 'war', but if we pull out we will most certainly lose the peace. You don't go into a country to knock a dictator of his pot and then tell everyone there, "thank you very much, good night, you're on your own". When you take out your toys and play you have a responsibility to put the toys away and clean up the mess you made.

There are certain US politicians who want nothing more than for democracy to fail in Iraq for the purposes of making political hay. They cannot be permitted to sabotage the emerging democracy in Iraq.
 
The central problem in this is all too clear, in my view.

We can debate on whether we should have gone in, etc etc., but the harsh reality is that right now we ARE in. Given that, to quote Thomas Jefferson, we effectively have the bull by the horns and cannot safely hold him, nor safely let him go.

That is to say, if we leave, then certainly Iraq will slide into full-scale civil war, in my opinion. However, if we overstay our welcome, any Iraqi government that assumes power will not feel legitimate in the eyes of many Iraqis (that is, it will seem like we "put" people in power, whether or not that's even true). Then there's the issue of the violence in the country. Certainly leaving won't help, and staying won't help if we don't do the right things to ease tensions.

I think one thing that has to improve is the social and economic aspect of security in the country. That is, people need to visibly see things such as decent schools, a decent water supply, health care, electricity.. all these "quality of life" improvements which will give them a sense that progress is being made in their day to day lives. It's great to have a democratically-elected government, but that feat starts to mean less and less when the day to day grind is still so harsh. It's similar to what some Russians felt during the rule of Boris Yeltsin -- they would say "yeah, we got rid of the Communists.. but now we get paid less, there's more crime, etc etc". We may know that democracy is a worthwhile system to have, but in places like Iraq that have never had it before, the people need to have these basic necessities so they FEEL that democracy is a worthwhile goal. Until people feel this security on a basic human level, all the military force and training in the world won't stop power-plays from occurring.

Military force can win a war, but it can't win the peace -- so I think that what needed to be told to the American people al ong time ago, is that this is going to be a two-step process: 1) getting rid of Saddam; and 2) making the country decently inhabitable. I don't think there are many people at all who feel that #1 wasn't a worthy goal, and who are unhappy that #1 has been achieved. However, a lot of people feel unhappy with how the US went about objective #2.

The enemy, in the ORGANIZED sense of the word, has already been defeated. The enemy that we're fighting now is not so much insurgents or sectarian violence, but what MAKES those things possible -- the lack of basic services I mentioned above that make people apathetic.
 
You're all going on the assumption that the United States is the only force that will pacify Iraq, just turn on the news and see the reality of the situation. If you ask me, the American presence is actually an instigator for violence and unrest. How many suicide bombings did we have before the war? NONE! and even then Iraqis were still being tortured and rounded up in the middle of the night. I'm not saying Saddam is better but I think it's obvious that the western crusade to enlighten the middle east is a farce. We're doing what Saddam did but making a hell of a lot more money and getting a lot less results.

For those still viewing this as a "win" or "lose" situation, face it: of course Iraq is a mess and of course Iraq will continue to be a mess, ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. The only solution is a complete withdrawal, two wrongs don't make a right, and I want to actually see you go up to a daughter, a mother, a father, a son, and tell them to be the last person to die for a mistake.
 
To answer the question in the title...democracy!!

I'll leave the rest of the discussion to someone else as I can't be arsed going over the same old crap for the 2000th time, 1999 times is my limit and I'm sticking to it!!
 
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