MoJ Absence

Hersfold

Hersfold

TNPer
Does any one know where Darth_Mathius is?

As far as I'm aware, he hasn't registered on this forum yet, and I actually hadn't noticed him much on s2 prior to the move either.
 
Well, if he was around the 24th then he was around when the Twoslit problem began. I'm hoping he's just on vacay. Tis the season after all. Is he from the US, if so he could still be on turkey day holiday.
 
Last I heard from him he was talking about a vacation. Since the ministry hasn't had much business of late, I don't see any harm in letting it ride for a while. As deputy minister, I can handle anything that comes up in his absense.

Romanoffia
 
OPArsenal Posted on Dec 7 2005, 01:24 AM
I believe he is English, though I'm unsure why.
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That made me > :lol:

He is definitely English! I don't know what his occupation is, but with Christmas coming up, he may well be 'snowed' under with work, it is certainly keeping me away from NS in the main at the mo!
 
DM is Santa? Hey! That means I'm Deputy Santa (which means I don't have to climb down chimnies or put up with the Elves' Union Local 333)!

I here by appoint GoalVA the offical 'Master of Foxhounds Reindeer!"
 
He must be ok because I saw him sign onto IRC and sign off real quick without saying anything just after we moved forums.

~22 days without any word.
Should we do something? Appoint the deputy?
 
There seems to be a curse in TNP of becoming inactive upon becoming a Minister, I am not sure if anything has been proposed, but if not, perhaps there should be an exact mechanism of how long a Minister can be inactive or awol, before the position is surrendered!?
 
I think an activity clause may be a good idea!!

Anyway, I will ask that Romanoffia step up as Minister of Justice and this absence is intolerable!!

If this is agreed, I'd like his masking altered accordingly!!
 
Absent an activity clause, what is DM's status if Romanoffia is appointed MoJ? I believe the current regulations allow for the impeachment of a minister with due process, but nowhere do they provide for the PM to make a unilateral decision to appoint the Deputy.
 
I think you'll find I asked him to step up and act in DM's role as per his duty as a Deputy in the absence of the Minister!! In order to operate in that role, the masking will need to be adjusted!!

If you wish to impeach DM, then by all means go ahead, but I will not have the Ministry of Justice left rudderless during the legal posturing!!
 
I believe this is why we need to address the situation.

I think we need to consider a mid-term election in this situation, or bring the deputy in. Either way, I believe the mechanism should be in place so there are no questions on how we handle this unfortunate posisition, that does appear to repeat!

I am less sure we should penalise an awol minister should they re-appear, losing office should be enough punishment and will no doubt be used against them by their rivals in future elections.
 
Poltsamaa:
I think you'll find I asked him to step up and act in DM's role as per his duty as a Deputy in the absence of the Minister!! In order to operate in that role, the masking will need to be adjusted!!

If you wish to impeach DM, then by all means go ahead, but I will not have the Ministry of Justice left rudderless during the legal posturing!!
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The MoJ isn't quite rudderless as I'm essentially functioning in the proper capacity as deputy on behalf of the Minister.
 
Just once I'd appreciate it if people actually read what I posted before replying!! I asked that your mask be amended so as to fully stand in for DM during his absence!! As far as I am aware, that has not happened!! I did not say the MoJ was rudderless, I said it would be if we put the mask change on hold awaiting impeachment!!

It is not that difficult to comprehend, is it?!
 
Perhaps the both of you could try and find a solution rather than trying to score points over each other?!

We need a solution, not an argument!
 
TNP Constitution Article III:
Section 5: Deputy Ministers.

1) All Ministers are required to appoint a Deputy Minister within seven days of their election, or upon a vacancy in, or a resignation of a Nation from, the office of a Deputy Minister.
2) The Deputy Minister succeeds to the Minister's position on an interim basis until the next election should the elected Minister resign, vacate, or otherwise be unable to hold office.
3) Where a vacancy occurs in any Cabinet Ministry and no Deputy for that Minister is then installed in office, the Prime Minister shall appoint a Deputy Minister who is qualified to serve as a Cabinet Minister, subject to a confirmation referendum of the registered voters of the Region. In that instance, the appointee shall serve as Minister on an acting basis until the referendum election is completed. If confirmed as a result of the referendum, that appointee shall thereupon assume the position of Minister and Cabinet member for the interim until the next election for that office. A vote of the registered voters is required to approve a motion for confirmation of such an appointment by the Prime Minister. If, after seven days, a quorum of the registered voters has participated and at least 50 per cent of those voting approve of the motion to confirm the appointment, the appointee shall remain in office to serve on an interim basis until the next election. If the motion for confirmation fails to receive such approval, then the appointee is not confirmed to serve as that Cabinet Minister, and the Prime Minister shall promptly propose another nominee for Deputy Minister, who shall act then as minister, subject to approval of a motion for confirmation in a referendum by the registered voters of the Region.
4) Service by a Deputy Minister does not constitute a Cabinet-level position unless serving as a Cabinet Minister on an interim basis until the next election for that office.
5) Designees for Deputy Minister must adhere to the same requirements as for Ministers, as provided in Article III, Section 3, of this Constitution. In addition, Deputy Ministers may not hold another position as either Deputy Minister, Minister, Prime Minister, Attorney General, or as the UN Delegate for the Region.
6) To be appointed as the Deputy Minister of Defense, a candidate shall have received the endorsement of a majority of the nations then in active service in the North Pacific Army within seven days prior to appointment.
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Maybe y'all should consider the highlighted clause?
 
I believe that is what I suggest Grosseschnauzer!! In order to assume the role the Deputy will need to be remasked as a minister until such time as the elected Minister returns or the next election is due!!

There is no argument here as far as I can tell, just some people reading what they want to read, not what was actually posted!!

If any section of what I requested was outside the constitution as quoted by Grosseschnauzer, please let me know!!
 
Poltsamaa:
There is no argument here as far as I can tell, just some people reading what they want to read, not what was actually posted!!
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Unfortunately that is an ailment of NS and forums in general. Twisted words, misunderstandings are a normal way of life in a forum, but a political forum really should expect it.

However in this situation, the discussion should imho be more geared towards finding a long term solution for the long term benefit of the region, one we are all able to recognise and one that anyone standing election knows prior.

I can not propose this as a resolution as I am not an RV, but I seriously believe it needs regulating!
 
I was referring to our current situation whereby our Minister of Justice had gone missing!! Under the Constitution the Deputy takes over on an interim basis which is what I was requesting to be officially recognised via a mask change for Romanoffia!! I asked if this was agreed because ultimately Romanoffia must accept the role of interim Minister of Justice!!

The issue you are referring to, IP, is a different one, but one I think needs to be looked at and rectified as soon as possible!! Currently, nobody is certain as to which point of time the Deputy should step up to replace an inactive Minister!! We had the situation last term where GoalVA was chastised for accepting RV applications because the resigned Minister had not given him permission to act in the Ministerial role!! This cannot be the way it works as an absent Minister will not be present to give permission!! Hence, I decided to push the issue and get the Deputy Minister officially recognised as Interim Minister!! We do need some guidelines for these situations so everyone knows what to expect!!

I would say that if the Minister is inactive (ie. has not logged on to the forum and posted) for 2 weeks without prior notification to the Prime Minister and/or Delegate then the Deputy can assume the interim role until the Minister returns or the next elections are held!!
 
I think we are more or less in agreement, in as much as we are both suggesting action must be taken at a certain point of Ministerial absence.

However, not every deputy may desire to take the position of Minister and I also believe in the case of absence without warning even two weeks could be too long in some instances. Ministers need to accept their commitment to the game and whilst I appreciate RL can affect the game, a player needs to consider that before seeking a position of responcibility in the Government and also expect to lose that position if they are unable to attend to their duties.
 
In this case, though, Roman does seem willing to fill the post, so that particular point is moot.

But I do agree that two weeks could be too long. But then that's something which belongs in the RA forums.

I'd personally prefer it if the cabinet had a short vote on this matter before I go changing masks, with a plan ready should DM show up before the term is over.
 
Hersfold:
In this case, though, Roman does seem willing to fill the post, so that particular point is moot.
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Indeed. Just thought it may be a suitable moment to address that possibility, while the issue was being discussed to cover future possibilities.
 
I don't think a cabinet vote is needed, Roman is the Deputy Minister, the elected minister is absent and has been pretty much since his election!! The Constitution is quite clear in that the Deputy can assume the role of Minister on an interim basis until the next election!!

If DM returns then I believe a cabinet vote on whether he is fit to reassume duty would be prudent!!
 
I agree with Poltsy. Given that an extended absense of a minister may be due to RL situation of which we are not aware, and it being purely an absense without any known reason, I think that it might be a good course to go the 'interim' path should DM show up before the end of his term. Hence, the mask could be changed without actually altering deputy status.

Impeachment would be, IMHO, for specific wrong doing - an absense for RL reasons, known or not, is not wrong doing by any means. Deputies are here to fill in in such an event until the minister can return.
 
Ok, then. Should DM return, I would expect everything to be set back the way it is now, however.

Roman will be in the Minister mask shortly.
 
Other than pointing out the provision in the Constitution that applies, I've deliberately stayed out of this discussion because I felt that there was a practical and reasonable political solution based upon that cited provision.
No statutes were needed, impeachment was not necessary, and the problem has been addressed. That is the way the Constitution is intended to work. :B):
 
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