A couple follow ups to your answers to Darcania's quiz.
1. Abstain is not a candidate (
except when they are, in which case Present is substituted). Knowing this, does this change any of your answers?
2. Where the rules say "2. In all other cases, any portion of a ballot that is properly completed will be counted, even if other portions of the ballot are not," we mean that where there's three races on a ballot and one race is invalid, the other races stand. We don't divide a ballot into "The Vote" and "RON" and allow RON when The Vote is invalid. Given this...
A. Do you think the rule should change where RON is still counted when The Vote is not?
B. Do you think the rule should change where The Vote is still counted when RON is not filled in properly?
C. If the rules were changed so that forgetting to answer RON correctly did not disqualify that portion of the ballot, how would you count an ambiguous RON vote?
3. Given that "if a voter selects more candidates for a given office than are allowed, their vote for that office will not be counted" was cited by the Election Commission in your answer and considering what I explained earlier about Abstain not being a candidate, what
other reason should the Election Commission have cited when they disqualified that vote?
4. If the forum names of COE and Madjack are Crushing Our Enemies and St George, respectively, how would you count a ballot that read 1. COE 2. Madjack assuming all other parts of the ballot are correct?
1. (Ignoring the case when "abstain" is a candidate as per the above) - I double checked precedence and will count the ballot as abstain first throughout as per precedence such as the 2021 July judicial election.
Results: July 2021 Judicial Elections The Election Commission has counted the votes in this Judicial Elections and now publishes these results, attesting they are true and correct. Results: @Pallaith, @Dreadton and @Lord Lore has been elected Justices. A detailed breakdown of votes and...
forum.thenorthpacific.org
I also note that "abstain" actually had a relative majority in the March 2020 judicial election:
Results: March 2020 Judicial Election The Election Commission has counted the votes in this Judicial Election and now publishes these results, attesting they are true and correct. A detailed breakdown of votes and results can be found in this spreadsheet. Election Commissioners: @Angshire...
forum.thenorthpacific.org
I only partly but did not fully check precedents as I think it would be like asking for spoilers on a closed book test. From Darcania, "Voters who don't vote for any candidate, or only vote for one or two candidates, have their votes counted as Abstain for the remainder of the ballot until all three options are filled." Since "abstain" is not a candidate, therefore the ballot in the example goes to abstain at first. Unless abstain wins in which case there is a re-vote. If abstain does not win, then the second preferences are counted as per Legal Code 4.5.32. As per Legal Code 4.5.33, if all of a voter's preferences have been eliminated, the voter's ballot shall not be used in further counting.
2. Now that I realise there is an ambiguity in the election code (because the answer I gave misinterpreted the severability of the RON vote), also question 1 depends on a precedent set by Darcania, I would seek an amendment during downtime for the Election Commission to cure these ambiguities. (As per answers to Darcania and Chipoli's questions above).
Sil covered most of the followup questions I had, but I wanted to point out one more thing.
The CEC is mostly a procedural role, like the Speaker. If you do get appointed to the EC and are appointed to supervise an election, remember that there are always two supervisors for any given election, with the full commission available to provide further advice if neither supervisor are sure what to do.
I have no particular position as to favouring allowing the RON portion of the ballot if the Voting portion is invalid, or vice versa, or how abstains are counted. I dislike ambiguities so will push to make the Rules of the Election
clearer. I am more the type that says "we need
a rule" rather than " we need
my rule". That makes it easier as I have long argued that "we are all volunteers so the fewer administrative issues the better".
As examples, I am OK with whether we drive on the left or right as long as we settle on
one side of the road, otherwise we get a car crash. Or whether we wear black or white to a funeral (my answer would depend on the religion of the deceased and whether I am related to the deceased). But I dislike ambiguities in law. (My current WA resolution at vote, Borderzone mining and drilling, is an amendment to cure an ambiguity concerning hydraulic fracking and is a replacement of another resolution).
3. The exact ballot was as follows (okay I looked this one up as this question was very specific):
"
Ballot ID number: #9003 (real random I know)
Delegate: < | Abstain >
Would you like to reopen nominations? < Yes | >
Vice Delegate: < | Abstain >
Would you like to reopen nominations? < Yes | >
Speaker: < Sil Dorsett | | Abstain >
Would you like to reopen nominations? < | No >
9003 is the supreme ruler of TNP this is an official statement of them taking over power.
"
Voting: September 2022 General Election Voting is now open in this General Election. Voting will be from (time=1662483625) (your forum time) to (time=1662915625) (your forum time), and ballots submitted outside that time are invalid. Everyone who is a Citizen at the time voting opens is...
forum.thenorthpacific.org
I would still have disqualified the Speaker ballot because of the ballot instruction that "(b)allots not submitted according to these guidelines are invalid" and that "[p]lease do not post anything other than your ballot in this thread" and the ballot contained a "statement" that is not related to the ballot.
4. I would count the ballot as COE, then Madjack. But I would need to check extremely carefully on the "COE" initials. I still lean against using aliases, because of ambiguities over potential names such as "Watermelons" vs "Whatemelons" which can be the source of confusion on the World Assembly side (although "Whatermelons" uses "Honeydewistan" here). I would push the voter to cure the ballot and use the names as specified in forums instead to be safe.
As per Rule 5.5, "[if] a voter misspells the name of a candidate on their ballot, their vote will be counted unless it is unclear which candidate they intended to vote for", I believe the use of aliases might create unnecessary ambiguities if two candidates have similar aliases.
I think a valid case can be made on Madjack being "famous enough" but if the ballot explicitly said "St George" (as has been the case in several elections past when Madjack ran), I think the use of the proper name is appropriate. I note that Madjack ran as "Mad Jack" once as delegate so I will allow that as an exception but not really the norm. (Same with say "Elu" for Eluvatar"). But generally I would discourage that practice and seek to cure the ballot.
So this is a bit weird, innit? Me, standing for delegate? I certainly didn’t expect this to happen even 3 months ago, but it seems like I’ve been granted a second chance. What better way to spend this second chance in the service of my online home for much of the last four and a half years? A...
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Anyway, a bit about me, just in case anyone is interested
I am mostly in the World Assembly General Assembly forums. I commented a lot on World Assembly affairs here at TNP and gameside since June 2020, and later took the plunge to become a TNP Ministry of World Assembly Affairs staffer in February 2022 (under
@Hulldom at that time), and then a deputy minister in October 2022 (under
@Chipoli at that time) and have held the office since. I've written about 60-70 information for voters (IFVs), I think. (About 150 resolutions have come and gone and I think I've written under half of them, counting ones where I wrote both sides of the argument, so that should be roughly right). I personally authored eight resolutions (one when I was a staffer, other times when I was a deputy minister) and have about 15 resolutions pending in the WA.
Personally, I have been in NationStates since July 2019, I spawned at TNP and simply never left and probably never will, unless I am expelled and end up at TRR. I don't have any puppets other than a few that I used when I tried my hand at cards and they are largely dormant.
