[WITHDRAWN] For the Establishment of The Wellspring as a Territory of The North Pacific

Terra dei Cittadini

Terra dei Cittadini

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Under Clause 66, Section 7.9 of the North Pacific Legal Code, I propose the following legislation to the Regional Assembly:
For the Establishment of The Wellspring as a Territory of The North Pacific:
1. With respect to Section 7.9 of Chapter 7 of the Legal Code, the region of The Wellspring is designated a territory of The North Pacific.
2. This bill will not take effect until the following conditions are met:
  • The legal government of The Wellspring consents to territorial incorporation.
  • The Wellspring's community has ratified a charter for its territorial government.
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I propose this due to the fact The Wellspring is a fruit of the "engineered [...] halving of [our] populations" with the Frontiers update. Not only would this (1) expand our universal influence, but it'd also (2) would assist in reclaiming power lost in the regional overhaul.

Under the request of some, and the reasoning that the Delegate's recognition of the territory will be an expedited method, this bill is hereby withdrawn.

For the Establishment of The Wellspring as a Territory of The North Pacific:
1. With respect to Section 7.9 of Chapter 7 of the Legal Code, the region of The Wellspring is designated a territory of The North Pacific.
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For the Establishment of The Wellspring as a Territory of The North Pacific:
With respect to Section 7.9 of Chapter 7 of the Legal Code, the region of The Wellspring is designated a territory of The North Pacific.
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For the Annexation of The Wellspring:
With respect to Section 7.9 of Chapter 7 of the Legal Code, The North Pacific annexes the region of The Wellspring.
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You’re invoking a provision to create official territories for this region. Annex is a loaded term and it is appropriate in very different situations than this.

We have not even controlled the region for a day. We have no idea what will happen to it (though I have some guesses in the immediate short term), what community will form, and what involvement we will have there. It is premature to say the least to explore forming a territory here.
 
Pallaith:
You’re invoking a provision to create official territories for this region. Annex is a loaded term and it is appropriate in very different situations than this.

We have not even controlled the region for a day. We have no idea what will happen to it (though I have some guesses in the immediate short term), what community will form, and what involvement we will have there. It is premature to say the least to explore forming a territory here.
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Along with this, we need the community's permission to become a North Pacific territory. We have not yet received said permission.
 
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Chipoli:
Along with this, we need the community's permission to become a North Pacific territory. We have not yet received said permission.
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What community? I'm pretty sure we founded this region, and even so it's only existed for less than a day and its current government is, like, the NPA :P
 
Comfed:
What community? I'm pretty sure we founded this region, and even so it's only existed for less than a day and its current government is, like, the NPA :P
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We didn’t found it, we took it over, but it’s brand new and made for this.
 
Terra dei Cittadini:
I know, this is probably me requesting "more bureaucracy", but since we're the first Frontiers in this game, it would be interesting to initiate the territorial game alongside this.
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Surprisingly, you are not in fact creating more bureaucracy. You are using what already exists. Also, you are not proposing legislation because you are not amending the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or the Legal Code. You are proposing a non-legislative motion in accordance with the Legal Code.

We are not "annexing" this frontier.

I'd say more, but, we're not in the Private Halls.
 
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Comfed:
What community? I'm pretty sure we founded this region, and even so it's only existed for less than a day and its current government is, like, the NPA :P
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Well, MJ at least isn’t presently in the NPA

In any case, I will note that legally speaking regular NPA regulations in 7.6 of the LC and elsewhere do provide us all of the necessary regional powers to at least keep the place in good order - with the possible exception of particularly aggressive spammers.
 
Wow. Things really went from zero to fifty real quick here (or, more accurately, zero to over four hundred). Anyways, when I founded this region on a whim twelve hours ago I was hoping to see some chaos. I certainly did not expect this would be the ONLY frontier for a full twelve hours, be made a colony of the most powerful region in the game, and have an active RMB. Thanks for making my day, TNP and everyone else!
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Correct. Though to be honest, I did basically put up a big neon sign and invite every military in the game to have a big chaos party trying to take it. So all things considered, TNP taking it so cleanly was a great outcome.
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Couple quotes from the frontier founder, Americastralia. Certainly seems like we at least have their blessing. Again, though, not an annexation. I would think that Foreign Affairs should be heavily involved in working out the frontier charter with them once we're confident that the region is secure.
 
Sil Dorsett:
Couple quotes from the frontier founder, Americastralia. Certainly seems like we at least have their blessing. Again, though, not an annexation. I would think that Foreign Affairs should be heavily involved in working out the frontier charter with them once we're confident that the region is secure.
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I was thinking that would be what "annexation" would mean in this context.
By 'annex', I meant the designation of a region as a territory of The North Pacific.
 
Annexation would be if we took the region and forcefully said "This is ours now" and told the founder to take a hike. That's not what's happening now. Under TNP law, there will come a time where we will have to negotiate with Americastralia and the nations who naturally spawned in and they will decide whether they want to be part of our community or if we have to leave.
 
Sil Dorsett:
Annexation would be if we took the region and forcefully said "This is ours now" and told the founder to take a hike. That's not what's happening now. Under TNP law, there will come a time where we will have to negotiate with Americastralia and the nations who naturally spawned in and they will decide whether they want to be part of our community or if we have to leave.
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As I explained above, I was saying "annex" in terms of making The Wellspring a territory of TNP. Not in the way you described it, but with respect to the procedures the Legal Code has.

Guess I should alter the language of the proposal. Y'know, so we're not "annexing" the region.
 
Terra dei Cittadini:
As I explained above, I was saying "annex" in terms of making The Wellspring a territory of TNP. Not in the way you described it, but with respect to the procedures the Legal Code has.

Guess I should alter the language of the proposal. Y'know, so we're not "annexing" the region.
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Yes, "annex" isn't the term you want to use.
"Incorporate"?
 
Doesn't really matter all that much right now. LC 7.9.67 hasn't been fulfilled yet, so this proposal cannot advance. I would think it'd be up to the Delegate or the Minister of Foreign Affairs to attest that it has been fulfilled. But then, I'd imagine the Delegate would want to propose it so that only the majority threshold is needed and not the 2/3rds supermajority. Why not wait to let that happen?
 
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67. No territory will be established from an existing region without the consent of that region's community and formal approval of its legal government.
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Has this criteria been met? Because as far as I'm aware you haven't provided proof of the region's consent of the community and formal approval of the regional government.
 
This is an unlawful action considering the lack of provided criteria established by the Legal Code to implement new territories. I will vote against this if it comes to vote.
 
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So, the Britannia Prima Defence Forces ejected and banned the Founder. Who's considered the legal government for the purposes of LC 7.9.67 now?
 
Sil Dorsett:
So, the Britannia Prima Defence Forces ejected and banned the Founder. Who's considered the legal government for the purposes of LC 7.9.67 now?
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The region on itself should decide on what form of government it should have, if we want to upheld our pillar of democracy. I consider that neither the Founder nor the Delegate currently hold no "legal power" as there is effectively no proper or real government within The Wellspring.

While it is true that there is a de-facto government presided by the NPA occupation of the region, this should only be a temporal status, as we should strive towards a "secondary goverment" as the legislation seems to approach it by the requirements of both consent from the community and the government.

De Facto, the Government of the region would be held by those who hold in this moment control over the region, which is the NPA. But De Iure, it's no-one's land.

I suggest, if annexation is the way we want to take this forward, in the way the legislation is laid, state-building is needed. A government has to be legally placed in The Wellspring. A democratic government, by which both criteria of government and community should be met.
 
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Vivanco:
The region on itself should decide on what form of government it should have, if we want to upheld our pillar of democracy. I consider that neither the Founder nor the Delegate currently hold no "legal power" as there is effectively no proper or real government within The Wellspring.

While it is true that there is a de-facto government presided by the NPA occupation of the region, this should only be a temporal status, as we should strive towards a "secondary goverment" as the legislation seems to approach it by the requirements of both consent from the community and the government.

De Facto, the Government of the region would be held by those who hold in this moment control over the region, which is the NPA. But De Iure, it's no-one's land.

I suggest, if annexation is the way we want to take this forward, in the way the legislation is laid, state-building is needed. A government has to be legally placed in The Wellspring. A democratic government, by which both criteria of government and community should be met.
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Nononono I'm not advocating war.

I'll need to rewrite this thing...
 
Sil Dorsett:
While it certainly appears that way, I contend that you acted out of line, and possibly criminally. This kind of issue should have been handled by the Delegate, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, or an authorized ambassador. All of which you are not.
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Oh no.

Well, we still got permission.

Next time, I'll ask the proper authorities to handle this matter.
 
Terra dei Cittadini:
Nononono I'm not advocating war.

I'll need to rewrite this thing...
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Nobody has said anything about war. War is a whole different topic.
I'm talking about state-building.

Currently to my belief, there's no way we can add this Fronteir as a Territory from the lack of "legal" government. And I'm advocating for such creation.
 
Sil Dorsett:
While it certainly appears that way, I contend that you acted out of line, and possibly criminally [...]
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I think this is going too far of an accusation, Sil. While I do agree that their actions were unlawful and completely out of line, I don't see how it could be a crime. I truly do not see how these actions fit in TNP's Penal Code.
 
"Possibly criminally" is strictly correct here given that Terra did send that telegram as if they were an official representative of TNP, when they are not.

It's a minor offense I'm not personally interested in pursuing, but still.
 
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Vivanco:
Nobody has said anything about war. War is a whole different topic.
I'm talking about state-building.

Currently to my belief, there's no way we can add this Fronteir as a Territory from the lack of "legal" government. And I'm advocating for such creation.
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Okay, I see where you're going.

Should we create a charter?
Vivanco:
I think this is going too far of an accusation, Sil. While I do agree that their actions were unlawful and completely out of line, I don't see how it could be a crime. I truly do not see how these actions fit in TNP's Penal Code.
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Yep. I made a blunder, and it can be expected that it does not recur.
 
Darcania:
"Possibly criminally" is strictly correct here given that Terra did send that telegram as if they were an official representative of TNP, when they are not.
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Can we not make this into a "Did Terra break the law" controversy?

Look, I overstepped my duties as a citizen of TNP, and wholeheartedly apologize for my insubordination.

You can expect nothing of the sorts to recur in the future.
 
Terra dei Cittadini:
Can we not make this into a "Did Terra break the law" controversy?
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There... isn't a controversy? This is just a statement of fact, and I've made it very clear I'm not interested in pursuing anything. Just stop going around pretending like you speak for the region when you don't, at all.
 
Darcania:
"Possibly criminally" is strictly correct here given that Terra did send that telegram as if they were an official representative of TNP, when they are not.

It's a minor offense I'm not personally interested in pursuing, but still.
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You're reffering to the Fraud crime, correct?
13. "Fraud" is defined as an intentional deception, by falsehood or omission, made for some benefit or to damage another individual.
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In order to do this, there has to be intentionality, to which I highly doubt, though if this is proceeded with an indictment, this must be and should be proven in Court. May I remind everyone that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Terra dei Cittadini:
Should we create a charter?
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We, The North Pacific should not. The Wellspring should establish a government. If TNP is to be involucred in the creation of such a thing, that's a whole another story. But we shouldn't.
 
Terra dei Cittadini:
Should we create a charter?
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A charter cannot be made by TNP.

It must be made by The Wellspring's community.

And it will be, when the community is properly set up, via its discord server that is currently in the setting up process.
 
Vivanco:
In order to do this, there has to be intentionality, to which I highly doubt, though if this is proceeded with an indictment, this must be and should be proven in Court. May I remind everyone that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
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Sil and I literally said "potentially", Viv, please chill out a bit.
 
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The bill has been updated; it will now only take effect upon The Wellspring's legal government has consented to incorporation and the community thereof has ratified a territorial charter.

Thoughts? Is this still too premature to enact?
 
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