Discussion on improving TNP.

I've opened this thread as an expo of ideas both conventional and radical with the view of improving engagement and activity within the region.
Please feel free to have an open and Frank debate here.

I'll start this off with some of my thoughts from the discourse conversation. The region has an inactivity and lack of engagement problem. So suggestions I have would be tweaking the forums slightly to make them more streamlined, Also our mentorship programme, I think it comes across as fairly formulaic. Maybe a more personal touch would have more success. Another suggestion In some countries with the Westminster system of government there is a form of a "youth Parliament" which its purpose is to prepare kids for Parliament and being a member of Government. It cannot change legislation however it is still a part of government, also allows members of the Parliament to shadow ministers and the executive to get a taste of the job. I understand the executive staff is similar, However the Parliament would in effect be watch and learn without the added burden of additional duties. Needless to say that wouldn't apply to some more sensitive areas of government. Without knowing the numbers on how successful the mentorship programme its difficult to gauge properly but I do think it could do with an overhaul because it does appear formulaic and lacking the personal touch. I also believe rather than being directed to different people to help with different aspects, mentors could instead build more rapport with individuals. Just to elaborate a little more on that last point, my suggestion would each new citizen would be assigned one mentor, the new citizen would direct all requests for information or help to the mentor rather than each aspect to TNP life individually. This would be in place for 30 days (unless cancelled by the new citizen or extended for another 30 days renewable once). As for the youth Parliament, it wouldn't be the same as executive staffer. Simply because there would not be official duties connected to it. It would be a deliberative, advisory body who would present their findings to the minister responsible. The Parliament would contain new citizens rather than established names. There would mentors maximum of three depending on its size. I'm only trying to think of ways to make the government more accessible to newcomers. I'm not saying these are completed nor polished solutions, only suggestions that could be worked on.

So glad you’re starting this conversation, though it’s rather tricky and doesn’t have easy answers. I wanted to point out that we have done something similar to the new person parliamentary group, a previous delegate tried having committees basically set up the same way, and it didn’t go well. Mostly because people didn’t know what to do with that responsibility and didn’t engage. Engagement is tough to guarantee, and it seems the more formal you make it, the more like work/homework it becomes and people tend to check out. I think it has to be way more informal and be spontaneous. I still think that people seeing players like you post around and speak up, and get involved, will set the example that other newcomers can follow.

Yeah I agree it's difficult and I believe one simple change isn't the answer. I think it's going to have to be several different options, I believe we need to look at a few aspects of TNP life, such as the mentorship programme I don't think it works particularly well right now. I have made a couple of suggestions around that area. The forums in my opinion are clogged up and messy. They are also overcrowded with some information that really isn't that relevant anymore and could be archived. Streamlining the forums would help players selflearn which would also help the mentorship programme. Asking what would seem like irrelevant questions during citizenship applications such as fun facts, interesting notes and such would help mentors create a more personal and quite frankly less generic and cold relationships with new players. I touched on role play and military over on the Discord chat and just to elaborate further I believe we may need to have a look at our promotion of these areas, some of the information around these can be difficult to understand for new players who are not used to that style of engagement I'm not sure how to address that particular issue at present. As for the Parliament idea, I was suggesting the idea behind it rather than implementation purely because a traditional parliament would be too regimented and formal whereas my idea much less formal especially compared to the regional assembly and wouldn't have the responsibility of the RA. As I said though I'm not wedded to that idea, rather it was just a suggestion of something a bit different. Also I would like to thank Ghost for bringing to my attention a similar idea had been done before. As always any feedback or ideas are welcomed.

Elfnotonashelf:

The forums in my opinion are clogged up and messy. They are also overcrowded with some information that really isn't that relevant anymore and could be archived. Streamlining the forums would help players selflearn which would also help the mentorship programme.

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I feel like the forums are already pretty streamlined? Obviously I have the benefit of having used these forums for quite a while now, but especially compared to some NS forums I think the TNP forums are well-organised in general.

Comfed:

I feel like the forums are already pretty streamlined? Obviously I have the benefit of having used these forums for quite a while now, but especially compared to some NS forums I think the TNP forums are well-organised in general.

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There is specific examples I'll give you, posts from 2016 still take precedence over newer threads, Roll calls going back to the start 2021, World Assembly voting records which haven't been updated since 2017, New Minister of cards going back to July 2021. Surely some of those could be archived as no longer relevant. Simple things like this could help New citizens selflearn the forums and Discord which would also elleviate pressure on the mentors as well.

I think that youth parliament is a great uidea for training new candidates to the government roles

Ekrund Greenskins:

I think that youth parliament is a great uidea for training new candidates to the government roles

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That would be part of its function though that would not be the sum of its actions. There would a much more broad capacity to it, which would include The RP functions of the region along with the military aspects of the region. As broad and inclusive as we could possibly make it. The training for government would be optional and not its main function. I would be interested however if you have any suggestions you would like to make. As this isn't about any one persons ideas I want to encourage everyone to express themselves.

Comfed:

I feel like the forums are already pretty streamlined? Obviously I have the benefit of having used these forums for quite a while now, but especially compared to some NS forums I think the TNP forums are well-organised in general.

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Also I forgot to add, do you any ideas or suggestions doesn't have to be about anything I've brought up. I want this to be an open exchange of ideas.

Elfnotonashelf:

That would be part of its function though that would not be the sum of its actions. There would a much more broad capacity to it, which would include The RP functions of the region along with the military aspects of the region. As broad and inclusive as we could possibly make it. The training for government would be optional and not its main function. I would be interested however if you have any suggestions you would like to make. As this isn't about any one persons ideas I want to encourage everyone to express themselves.

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For the record, our Roleplaying activities are not related to the TNP government. At least on this forum, it is considered a Forum Activity that is administered by Forum Administration and moderated by a team of RP Moderators not chosen by the government.

Sil Dorsett:

For the record, our Roleplaying activities are not related to the TNP government. At least on this forum, it is considered a Forum Activity that is administered by Forum Administration and moderated by a team of RP Moderators not chosen by the government.

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In terms of the Roleplaying aspect, the Parliament idea would not have any responsibility anyway as that's not what it's purpose would be. The idea was to have all aspects be spoke about, discussed and encouraged through that medium. It's purpose would be as an inclusive and accessible forum for new players to get used to all aspects of TNP life without the formality of the RA. In terms of roleplay specifically it would be included insofar as discussions around its nature, providing information and finally as an area of suggestions and new ideas. In effect it would be a gateway for new players that could then walk through the doors of the areas of TNP that they want to. The Parliament idea would not be legislative it would simply be a gateway and or optional training for government. If I may ask do you have any suggestions you'd want to have or ideas you'd like to implement ?.

Elfnotonashelf:

There is specific examples I'll give you, posts from 2016 still take precedence over newer threads, Roll calls going back to the start 2021, World Assembly voting records which haven't been updated since 2017, New Minister of cards going back to July 2021. Surely some of those could be archived as no longer relevant. Simple things like this could help New citizens selflearn the forums and Discord which would also elleviate pressure on the mentors as well.

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For the record, there are a couple of things here:

1. Part of the “precedence” thing is pins. Posts which contain useful information (rules of procedure, etc.) are necessarily going to be placed above routine threads and other things. We want to make sure people have the ability to see the things that will inform them on expectations and processes.
2. Re: roll calls. Not every Minister chooses to do a roll call. Some do, some don’t. Really down to who’s doing it. I admit we sometimes don’t do the best job of keeping the clutter away though.
3. Voting records haven’t been maintained because of the tech limitations therein. R3n no longer maintains them. However, InfoEurope (run by our good friend Imperium Anglorum on behalf of his region Europe) does maintain those records. I assume they’re still pinned as a historical record.
4. Once again, it’s really just a matter of clutter.

Elfnotonashelf:

In terms of the Roleplaying aspect, the Parliament idea would not have any responsibility anyway as that's not what it's purpose would be. The idea was to have all aspects be spoke about, discussed and encouraged through that medium. It's purpose would be as an inclusive and accessible forum for new players to get used to all aspects of TNP life without the formality of the RA. In terms of roleplay specifically it would be included insofar as discussions around its nature, providing information and finally as an area of suggestions and new ideas. In effect it would be a gateway for new players that could then walk through the doors of the areas of TNP that they want to. The Parliament idea would not be legislative it would simply be a gateway and or optional training for government. If I may ask do you have any suggestions you'd want to have or ideas you'd like to implement ?.

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One other thing to keep in mind is that the RP community does not even require residency in TNP. Only a forum account is required. The RP community is always open for new players to come in and learn about what we do. It's really only those who come in with vastly different expectations and expect us to change to accommodate them that we have trouble retaining. The way I see your parliament idea, discussion about the RP community is out-of-scope.

Retaining citizens and giving them something to do that requires citizenship is a critical issue, in my opinion. Let me provide an excerpt of a telegram that I just got today from someone whose citizenship lapsed...

"I don't see much in the game besides just solving issues (which, indeed, I do enjoy). But perhaps i'm overlooking some things? What exactly are the benefits of working to maintain citizenship?"

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That's not good. That's the kind of issue I see your parliament working to solve.

I like the idea in theory of a "Youth Parliament" with more recent Citizens of TNP participating. It could be a good idea to help engage new citizens.

However, how to implement and the primary goal of it are the two big questions. Who manages such an organization? Are all new Citizens automatically members or is it an as you decide to join it type body? Would it be a training body where members are given faux issues and come up with solutions similar to a real world equivalent Youth Parliament or Model UN? Or are we thinking of it as a focus group for mentoring new Citizens to encourage the creation of new ideas to be implemented across TNP? Or does it do both? In either case, would it have a structure modeled after TNP's structure and have officers, cabinet, etc similar to TNP to help everyone understand the different roles better?

I'd love to see a formalized idea with more detail.

Hulldom:

For the record, there are a couple of things here:

1. Part of the “precedence” thing is pins. Posts which contain useful information (rules of procedure, etc.) are necessarily going to be placed above routine threads and other things. We want to make sure people have the ability to see the things that will inform them on expectations and processes.
2. Re: roll calls. Not every Minister chooses to do a roll call. Some do, some don’t. Really down to who’s doing it. I admit we sometimes don’t do the best job of keeping the clutter away though.
3. Voting records haven’t been maintained because of the tech limitations therein. R3n no longer maintains them. However, InfoEurope (run by our good friend Imperium Anglorum on behalf of his region Europe) does maintain those records. I assume they’re still pinned as a historical record.
4. Once again, it’s really just a matter of clutter.

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I accept that some of them are useful, I suppose my only point is some are not useful and could be archived. Once you get used to the forums they're not too bad however it can be difficult at first and they are cluttered at present. I know it may seem I'm being pedantic about it however I do believe small things like tidying up the forums would help. In regards to sleflearning and helping out the mentorship problems as well. Do you have any other ideas we could form ?
Thank you for taking the time to comment.

Sil Dorsett:

One other thing to keep in mind is that the RP community does not even require residency in TNP. Only a forum account is required. The RP community is always open for new players to come in and learn about what we do. It's really only those who come in with vastly different expectations and expect us to change to accommodate them that we have trouble retaining. The way I see your parliament idea, discussion about the RP community is out-of-scope.

Retaining citizens and giving them something to do that requires citizenship is a critical issue, in my opinion. Let me provide an excerpt of a telegram that I just got today from someone whose citizenship lapsed...
That's not good. That's the kind of issue I see your parliament working to solve.

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I thank you for your example, as yes that is the type of thing I want to address. I do believe it's going to be a difficult process, however I also believe we have to do something. Making the RP community separate would be somethi3ng I would be happy to consider. The Parliament would only have been an information provider and advisor to new players on the existence and purpose of the RP community. The Parliament would not have authority over RP anyway.
I want to make it clear that this isn't just about my ideas. I want this to be an open exchange of ideas. Do you have any other ideas we could work with ?.

Namwenia:

I like the idea in theory of a "Youth Parliament" with more recent Citizens of TNP participating. It could be a good idea to help engage new citizens.

However, how to implement and the primary goal of it are the two big questions. Who manages such an organization? Are all new Citizens automatically members or is it an as you decide to join it type body? Would it be a training body where members are given faux issues and come up with solutions similar to a real world equivalent Youth Parliament or Model UN? Or are we thinking of it as a focus group for mentoring new Citizens to encourage the creation of new ideas to be implemented across TNP? Or does it do both? In either case, would it have a structure modeled after TNP's structure and have officers, cabinet, etc similar to TNP to help everyone understand the different roles better?

I'd love to see a formalized idea with more detail.

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I'd be happy to provide more details. I'll answer each question separately.
1. The primary goal is simply to improve activity and engagement it would do this through helping new citizens understand how the region works not just in theory but also practise, it would encourage new citizens to participate in informal debates ranging from suggestions of legislation to requests for cultural events and everything in between. It's important to note however the Parliament would not have the ability to impose legislation nor have a binding vote. However in terms of legislation and government training these would be optional.
2. There would be a maximum of three mentors (dependant on size) who would oversee the group however given the relative informal nature of it there would not be a leader as such rather it would be about new citizens working alongside the mentors.
3. As for whether its a training body or focus group, The simple answer is both. It's primary function would be more in line with a focus group on ways to improve TNP or to improve specific areas of TNP, Also for more general conversations around TNP life. however the training side would be optional but would include ghost writings of Resolutions, Information for Voters threads, and Regional Assembly results and votes. There would also be an option of shadowing ministers to get a feel for the job. For those who reached certain requirements (such as level of activity and consistency) there would be an apprenticeship scheme, for more specific training. Again this would be optional.
4. In terms of whether new citizens would automatically enter or would have to apply, I was thinking that we could ask that question when potential citizens apply. We could provide a brief overview then ask, if they say yes they would be entered if not we wouldn't. We would leave the door open for them to join at anytime however.
5. There would be a very loose and informal structure to it. I feel to give it a more structured system would make it too formal and similar to the Regional Assembly. As such there would be no ministers or cabinet specifically for the Parliament instead there would be mentors. I would really want it to be done by citizens for citizens.
Just to add however that alongside this I feel the mentorship programme would need to be reviewed and updated, as well as the forums.
I hope that my answers covered your questions however please feel free to reach out if you need any more information.
I would be interested to see if you had any ideas on this subject as well ?.

I think Ghost concedes as much in his farewell speech.

TNP is the biggest GCR, with the highest number of WA votes (if that's the proper guide for it), and it should remain the biggest and the best. We have had our fair share of stumbles (I've been here three and a half years, but participate much less in the TNP government, as I am usually gameside as an author). If we have enough enthusiasts, we *can* make TNP stronger and better than before.

I will refrain from commenting further at this stage because I want to see how others react to this discussion, as I think @Elfnotonashelf has generated more soul-searching than the region has collectively managed for a long time. I think we've ended up coasting for sometime and it's good to wake up and start to feel paranoid about the future. (I believe in Andy Grove's management theories a lot).

Simone_Republic:

I think Ghost concedes as much in his farewell speech.

Farewell Address: January 2023

Farewell Address I have written two of these speeches before, because you have blessed me with the opportunity to serve as your delegate 5 separate times now. This is one of the best jobs in NS, and I enjoy it immensely every time I get to do it, knowing full well that it could be the last...

forum.thenorthpacific.org

TNP is the biggest GCR, with the highest number of WA votes (if that's the proper guide for it), and it should remain the biggest and the best. We have had our fair share of stumbles (I've been here three and a half years, but participate much less in the TNP government, as I am usually gameside as an author). If we have enough enthusiasts, we *can* make TNP stronger and better than before.

I will refrain from commenting further at this stage because I want to see how others react to this discussion, as I think @Elfnotonashelf has generated more soul-searching than the region has collectively managed for a long time. I think we've ended up coasting for sometime and it's good to wake up and start to feel paranoid about the future. (I believe in Andy Grove's management theories a lot).

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I think in terms of size and WA votes I do believe TNP is the largest, however that in of itself shows the problem. We have the numbers yet not the activity and that's the problem I'm trying to address. TNP could be better than it is, The infrastructure is mostly in place as a launch pad to new heights. know what I'm saying won't be popular with some members, however I do believe some changes need to made to keep up activity and engagement within the region, offsite and Gameside. I would say there is a complacency that comes that with such a longstanding and established region. The ideas I've put forward here are only a few, I'm currently working on a more comprehensive plan that I hope to produce either towards the end of this week or beginning of next. In the maintime I encourage others to put forward their ideas and thoughts.
On a personal note I would like to thank you for your kind words.