March 11, 2021
[9:27 AM] Eras: @Court
[9:27 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: OwO
[9:27 AM] Eras: people should be properly masked now
[9:27 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Thanks!
[9:27 AM] Eras: who is chief justice?
[9:28 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: We'll have to discuss.
[9:28 AM] Eras: ah, okay
[9:28 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I'll set up a thread in the Private Chambers for that. Wil let you know once we know.
[9:29 AM] Eras: okay, ping us when that's decided
[9:33 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194466/
[9:33 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: ^CJ selection
[3:00 PM] Eras: Can I ask who might have been charged with bribery in TNP previously? I've gotten a query
[3:46 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Bribery is not on its own a crime in the Legal Code, but depending on the circumstances it may fit any of the other ones in the Legal Code. A quick search for "bribery", "bribe" and "bribed" does not turn anything up in the Criminal Case Archive.
[3:46 PM] Eras: haha okay. thank you!
[4:02 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Reminds me that I meant to try and make it one
[4:02 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Legislatively and all, now that Cards provide a site-legal method
March 12, 2021
[2:13 PM] Lady Raven Wing: @Court We have received our first R4R of the term.
forum.thenorthpacific.org
[2:13 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Oy
[2:14 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I made the requisite thread in private chambers
[2:14 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Will link momentarily
[2:14 PM] Lady Raven Wing: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194472/#post-10391302
[2:15 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: R4R 45min before I go to bed smh.
[2:15 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Anyway, will read in a sec.
[3:46 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court I'm currently working on my comment in the thread. Meanwhile, in the absence of a CJ, would you approve me reminding Elu and others to not submit briefs pre-approval of an R4R? Per chapter 2, section 5 of our Procedures:
During the five days after a request for review has been accepted, anyone may offer information that is relevant to the case and/or advise the Court on how to rule in the form of a brief.
[3:46 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: (For now, that we lack a Chief Justice, I will presume that any Justice can act in such a fashion with the approval of at least one other Justice, a majority. Waiting for both to share their opinions seems to take unnecessary amounts of time.)
[3:48 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I also just commented in the thread.
[4:09 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I'm going to bed now.
[4:10 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Any Justice can do the above if they come online and approve of it.
[6:00 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I wouldn't call what he posted a brief per se, but I agree that it was premature for there to be a response before it's been accepted. I would note that the law doesn't necessarily preclude Elu from making such a post, which he could have also made in the gallery or something else
[6:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I was happy to sign off on that action Pete but I was busy driving to a dentist appointment, sorry I missed you
[6:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I guess I will post something along those lines
[6:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: really interested about what you think we should do with this R4R though
[7:47 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I’m of the opinion at least that it’s within our jurisdiction to determine whether the stated reasons of admin for failing a check are sufficiently allowed under the law
[7:48 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: read my post and then tell me if you still agree
[7:48 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I’m thinking on it
[7:55 PM] Lady Raven Wing: That’s certainly convincing - I think jurisdiction in the narrow sense remains (that is, the only question I think we’re capable of answering is whether it’s allowed under the law, but not anything else). On reflection with your points + further thought/reread I think that it would be (admin requires checks as such as a requirement to verify there’s not a proxy situation), so I’m possibly leaning towards non-acceptance if we’re willing to swing at least some kind of non-binding opinion.
[8:00 PM] Lady Raven Wing: In other words, I’m plenty willing to run with a denial (no reason needed, actually) with an unofficial “it’s legal”
[8:02 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Perhaps with some note of wishing to avoid dealing with admin stuff in general, but that’s it’s good to confirm that admin is legally in the right (because them possibly not being is a whole different can of worms)
[8:11 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Okay that’s my thoughts for the moment
March 13, 2021
[12:35 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Administrator FYI: I have been selected as Chief Justice. (Also, I don't know if that's already the case, but could I be granted mod perms in the Private Justice Archive, so I can declassify threads?)
[3:42 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court I suggested a rejection with non-binding explanation here: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194472/#post-10391427
@Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice
@Administrator FYI: I have been selected as Chief Justice. (Also, I don't know if that's already the case, but could I be granted mod perms in the Private Justice Archive, so I can declassify threads?)
[4:42 AM] McMasterdonia: Post anything like this in admin requests ftr as we don’t check or read this usually
[4:43 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Sure, thanks!
[4:49 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: (posted on the forums)
[11:31 AM] Eras: done. and I'll echo McM, don't want to violate secrecy so this channel is muted. Pinging does get through though.
March 14, 2021
[3:11 AM] Pallaith, King of the North: Nice job Pete. And you got the Praetor seal of approval too
[4:38 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Prae-approved ruling.
[12:37 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: (I have added a copy of our Discord logs to the thread about the R4R.)
March 19, 2021
[3:52 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court Please see: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194504/
March 23, 2021
[2:07 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Lady Raven Wing ^
April 18, 2021
[7:37 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: It’s a bit funny that the Court was the talk of the town and so relevant with all the stuff happening last term and now it’s gotten super quiet at precisely the same time that we’ve found ourselves busy with other things.
So much of what I had in mind to do this term kind of depending on us having a lot on our plate. We don’t. That makes it the perfect time to work on the non-pressing stuff. I’m a bit ignorant here: I don’t know if we really have any room to modify court procedure. To the extent I want to do it, I want to make it easier to avoid mishaps in trials with scheduling, with red tape that trips people up. Can we cut some of it? Can we make it harder to win on technicalities? Maybe that’s too difficult to force, but that’s what I’m thinking of
Pete has an idea for some kind of staff, I think it can be explored. We have half a term to work on that assuming no cases come along, I just want to touch base on this to see where we’re at with this
April 19, 2021
[2:50 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I’ve been a bit busier irl to actually write up some of my changes
[7:55 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Winning on technilities, I have a couple thoughts rn, but need some more time to think them over
April 25, 2021
[2:20 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I was insanely busy with work the last three weeks but now I have lots of time available. I will write a proposal and probably publish it in our Private Chambers today, or possibly tomorrow.(edited)
[4:25 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194606/
May 5, 2021
[3:52 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194642/
May 7, 2021
[9:48 AM] Pallaith, King of the North: I think we’re almost there with this. I struggled to find any other areas that cried out for reform. Maybe it’s just the way justices conduct themselves, and no amount of tweaking procedure can fix that
[6:41 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Are either of you alive anymore? @Court
[6:57 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Yes...?
[1:20 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Yeah, but very busy. However, I was planning on working on some reform ideas tonight (so in about 12h)
May 13, 2021
[8:52 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court I launched a formal vote. https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194606/#post-10403141
June 11, 2021
[8:32 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: @Court so what now? Anything?
June 14, 2021
[2:04 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I’ll write a draft for an amendment for the clerk system somewhere tomorrow so we can deal in details.
June 15, 2021
[3:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Well this is awkward
[3:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: @Lady Raven Wing thoughts?
[5:15 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I don’t have any new thoughts on the clerk stuff, no
[5:16 PM] Lady Raven Wing: On my stuff, also no, but I haven’t fully written them down yet
[5:30 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I meant what do we do now that the Chief Justice is gone?
[5:30 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Do we have to pick a new one for two weeks? Do we keep going?
[5:30 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Like this stuff...should we write it off?
[5:31 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Shouldn’t matter either way
[5:31 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Crud, didn’t notice the Pete thing
[5:37 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Legally, we probably should choose a new CJ (I don’t care of we flip a coin or whatever we do) - the language in the legal code is very a if/then, though we have no actual obligation to complete an election outside of the 7 days after the Judicial election ends
[5:38 PM] Lady Raven Wing: That is, any changes I have are relatively minor and consist of proposals to streamline a few aspects of depositions that bug me, but are otherwise trivial
[5:41 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Which is why I haven’t finished them yet
[6:09 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I’ll take the reins
[6:09 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Cool
[6:12 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: But I’m going to warn you, my opinion has not improved regarding the Court’s function or utility, and this was the perfect term to do some of that tweaking and managing and we didn’t manage to do it. If I had been Chief from day one I don’t think that would have changed anything, but it just proves to me that in the absence of cases (something I’m not confident the Court can even handle well in the absence of any testing this term), it just doesn’t have anything to do. I guess it doesn’t hurt to have people on standby for when stuff does happen, but I feel like we could do that differently than this
[6:12 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Fair enough
July 12, 2021
[7:47 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: See ya @Lady Raven Wing since I can still ping you in here a bit longer
[8:12 PM] Lady Raven Wing: See ya’ indeed
[8:12 PM] Lady Raven Wing: If something happens, ideally in the court somewhere
Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice is saitpeter, CJ. Pallaith, King of the North is Pallaith, J./CJ.
[9:27 AM] Eras: @Court
[9:27 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: OwO
[9:27 AM] Eras: people should be properly masked now
[9:27 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Thanks!
[9:27 AM] Eras: who is chief justice?
[9:28 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: We'll have to discuss.
[9:28 AM] Eras: ah, okay
[9:28 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I'll set up a thread in the Private Chambers for that. Wil let you know once we know.
[9:29 AM] Eras: okay, ping us when that's decided
[9:33 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194466/
[9:33 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: ^CJ selection
[3:00 PM] Eras: Can I ask who might have been charged with bribery in TNP previously? I've gotten a query
[3:46 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Bribery is not on its own a crime in the Legal Code, but depending on the circumstances it may fit any of the other ones in the Legal Code. A quick search for "bribery", "bribe" and "bribed" does not turn anything up in the Criminal Case Archive.
[3:46 PM] Eras: haha okay. thank you!
[4:02 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Reminds me that I meant to try and make it one
[4:02 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Legislatively and all, now that Cards provide a site-legal method
March 12, 2021
[2:13 PM] Lady Raven Wing: @Court We have received our first R4R of the term.
[R4R] Citizenship admin checks
1. What law, government policy, or action (taken by a government official) do you request that the Court review? The process used by admins to check members requesting citizenship, both generally (hereafter referred to as "i") and in the specific case of my own application (hereafter referred...
[2:14 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I made the requisite thread in private chambers
[2:14 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Will link momentarily
[2:14 PM] Lady Raven Wing: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194472/#post-10391302
[2:15 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: R4R 45min before I go to bed smh.
[2:15 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Anyway, will read in a sec.
[3:46 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court I'm currently working on my comment in the thread. Meanwhile, in the absence of a CJ, would you approve me reminding Elu and others to not submit briefs pre-approval of an R4R? Per chapter 2, section 5 of our Procedures:
During the five days after a request for review has been accepted, anyone may offer information that is relevant to the case and/or advise the Court on how to rule in the form of a brief.
[3:46 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: (For now, that we lack a Chief Justice, I will presume that any Justice can act in such a fashion with the approval of at least one other Justice, a majority. Waiting for both to share their opinions seems to take unnecessary amounts of time.)
[3:48 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I also just commented in the thread.
[4:09 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I'm going to bed now.
[4:10 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Any Justice can do the above if they come online and approve of it.
[6:00 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I wouldn't call what he posted a brief per se, but I agree that it was premature for there to be a response before it's been accepted. I would note that the law doesn't necessarily preclude Elu from making such a post, which he could have also made in the gallery or something else
[6:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I was happy to sign off on that action Pete but I was busy driving to a dentist appointment, sorry I missed you
[6:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I guess I will post something along those lines
[6:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: really interested about what you think we should do with this R4R though
[7:47 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I’m of the opinion at least that it’s within our jurisdiction to determine whether the stated reasons of admin for failing a check are sufficiently allowed under the law
[7:48 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: read my post and then tell me if you still agree
[7:48 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I’m thinking on it
[7:55 PM] Lady Raven Wing: That’s certainly convincing - I think jurisdiction in the narrow sense remains (that is, the only question I think we’re capable of answering is whether it’s allowed under the law, but not anything else). On reflection with your points + further thought/reread I think that it would be (admin requires checks as such as a requirement to verify there’s not a proxy situation), so I’m possibly leaning towards non-acceptance if we’re willing to swing at least some kind of non-binding opinion.
[8:00 PM] Lady Raven Wing: In other words, I’m plenty willing to run with a denial (no reason needed, actually) with an unofficial “it’s legal”
[8:02 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Perhaps with some note of wishing to avoid dealing with admin stuff in general, but that’s it’s good to confirm that admin is legally in the right (because them possibly not being is a whole different can of worms)
[8:11 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Okay that’s my thoughts for the moment
March 13, 2021
[12:35 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Administrator FYI: I have been selected as Chief Justice. (Also, I don't know if that's already the case, but could I be granted mod perms in the Private Justice Archive, so I can declassify threads?)
[3:42 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court I suggested a rejection with non-binding explanation here: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194472/#post-10391427
@Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice
@Administrator FYI: I have been selected as Chief Justice. (Also, I don't know if that's already the case, but could I be granted mod perms in the Private Justice Archive, so I can declassify threads?)
[4:42 AM] McMasterdonia: Post anything like this in admin requests ftr as we don’t check or read this usually
[4:43 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Sure, thanks!
[4:49 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: (posted on the forums)
[11:31 AM] Eras: done. and I'll echo McM, don't want to violate secrecy so this channel is muted. Pinging does get through though.
March 14, 2021
[3:11 AM] Pallaith, King of the North: Nice job Pete. And you got the Praetor seal of approval too
[4:38 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Prae-approved ruling.
[12:37 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: (I have added a copy of our Discord logs to the thread about the R4R.)
March 19, 2021
[3:52 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court Please see: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194504/
March 23, 2021
[2:07 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Lady Raven Wing ^
April 18, 2021
[7:37 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: It’s a bit funny that the Court was the talk of the town and so relevant with all the stuff happening last term and now it’s gotten super quiet at precisely the same time that we’ve found ourselves busy with other things.
So much of what I had in mind to do this term kind of depending on us having a lot on our plate. We don’t. That makes it the perfect time to work on the non-pressing stuff. I’m a bit ignorant here: I don’t know if we really have any room to modify court procedure. To the extent I want to do it, I want to make it easier to avoid mishaps in trials with scheduling, with red tape that trips people up. Can we cut some of it? Can we make it harder to win on technicalities? Maybe that’s too difficult to force, but that’s what I’m thinking of
Pete has an idea for some kind of staff, I think it can be explored. We have half a term to work on that assuming no cases come along, I just want to touch base on this to see where we’re at with this
April 19, 2021
[2:50 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I’ve been a bit busier irl to actually write up some of my changes
[7:55 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Winning on technilities, I have a couple thoughts rn, but need some more time to think them over
April 25, 2021
[2:20 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I was insanely busy with work the last three weeks but now I have lots of time available. I will write a proposal and probably publish it in our Private Chambers today, or possibly tomorrow.(edited)
[4:25 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194606/
May 5, 2021
[3:52 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194642/
May 7, 2021
[9:48 AM] Pallaith, King of the North: I think we’re almost there with this. I struggled to find any other areas that cried out for reform. Maybe it’s just the way justices conduct themselves, and no amount of tweaking procedure can fix that
[6:41 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Are either of you alive anymore? @Court
[6:57 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Yes...?
[1:20 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: Yeah, but very busy. However, I was planning on working on some reform ideas tonight (so in about 12h)
May 13, 2021
[8:52 AM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: @Court I launched a formal vote. https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194606/#post-10403141
June 11, 2021
[8:32 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: @Court so what now? Anything?
June 14, 2021
[2:04 PM] Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice: I’ll write a draft for an amendment for the clerk system somewhere tomorrow so we can deal in details.
June 15, 2021
[3:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Well this is awkward
[3:06 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: @Lady Raven Wing thoughts?
[5:15 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I don’t have any new thoughts on the clerk stuff, no
[5:16 PM] Lady Raven Wing: On my stuff, also no, but I haven’t fully written them down yet
[5:30 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I meant what do we do now that the Chief Justice is gone?
[5:30 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Do we have to pick a new one for two weeks? Do we keep going?
[5:30 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: Like this stuff...should we write it off?
[5:31 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Shouldn’t matter either way
[5:31 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Crud, didn’t notice the Pete thing
[5:37 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Legally, we probably should choose a new CJ (I don’t care of we flip a coin or whatever we do) - the language in the legal code is very a if/then, though we have no actual obligation to complete an election outside of the 7 days after the Judicial election ends
[5:38 PM] Lady Raven Wing: That is, any changes I have are relatively minor and consist of proposals to streamline a few aspects of depositions that bug me, but are otherwise trivial
[5:41 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Which is why I haven’t finished them yet
[6:09 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: I’ll take the reins
[6:09 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Cool
[6:12 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: But I’m going to warn you, my opinion has not improved regarding the Court’s function or utility, and this was the perfect term to do some of that tweaking and managing and we didn’t manage to do it. If I had been Chief from day one I don’t think that would have changed anything, but it just proves to me that in the absence of cases (something I’m not confident the Court can even handle well in the absence of any testing this term), it just doesn’t have anything to do. I guess it doesn’t hurt to have people on standby for when stuff does happen, but I feel like we could do that differently than this
[6:12 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Fair enough
July 12, 2021
[7:47 PM] Pallaith, King of the North: See ya @Lady Raven Wing since I can still ping you in here a bit longer
[8:12 PM] Lady Raven Wing: See ya’ indeed
[8:12 PM] Lady Raven Wing: If something happens, ideally in the court somewhere
Duke Pete Manchin, Lord Justice is saitpeter, CJ. Pallaith, King of the North is Pallaith, J./CJ.