[Private] The North Pacific v 9003

It is my opinion that 9003 be given an equivalent sentence to Madjack's Conspiracy charges. While his defense counsel would like to say he was acting as a private citizen I see this in another light. I see two members of the government acting in concert to discredit a notable potential candidate for Delegate who has contrasting views of the then sitting delegate and would probably replace them in their ministerial positions. So BMW shadow wrote an opinion and used 9003 as the face of the charges to avoid public scrutiny and in doing provided faulty evidence that he swore to collecting but had been provided by others behind the curtain.

As such I think that 4 Months Voting Suspension and 6 month Election Suspension is appropriate for the weaponization of the Judicial Branch against their opponents.
 
I don't agree with LL here. While there may be a political motivation behind the indictments against St George, that seems like an assumption I'm not just willing to accept. Ultimately, the Court came very close to convicting him, so it was not a frivolous case.

9003 made a mistake and that's a problem. But one that doesn't warrant a harsh penalty. I would suspend voting rights for 3 months and an election suspension for 5 months.
 
The thing we have to take in consideration is that neither parts are considering Election Susension as a fact for the sentencing, and I quote from the Defense:
restriction of the right to serve as a government official is not appropriate in this instance, as 9003's actions did not implicate their office or any future offices they make seek, only themselves and potentially another citizen.
and the Prosecution:
  1. In return for pleading guilty, we recommend no government barring or position restrictions are leveled on the defendant and;
  2. In exchange for not facing this one specific punishment, both sides have agreed instead of recommending a harder punishment for the other aforementioned punishments

I would suggest to stay within the recommendations from the interested parts, and due to the non-malicious matter of the act, I would suggest a suspension of voting rights of 2 months, and an election suspension, I would agree with Saint Peter with 5 months
 
Election Suspension absolutely was in their recommendation. Perjury has three punishments attached to it. Suspension of Voting Rights, Restriction on standing for Elected Offices, and Restrictions on server as Government Officials. Both Prosecution and Defense recommended harsher sentencing on Voting and Elections rights in exchange for avoiding being barring from holding unelected offices in the Ministries and etc.

Quote from the Prosecution:
Final Recommendation

The Prosecution recommends their ability to serve as a government official should not be sanctioned to allow further better civil commitment. Basing off of the Whole India case, MadJack case, and Tomb case, I suggest a voter right suspension for 150 days (or 5 months, June 10th, 2021) and restrictions on standing for election until July 31st, 2021. Or roughly the restriction from standing on election for the May general election and March and July judicial elections.

Quote from the Defense:

Final Recommendation:

Considering all of this, the Defense submits that a suspension of 9003's voting rights for 4 months, and the same on the ability to stand for election, is an appropriate punishment for Perjury in this instance. While Perjury is a serious crime with the potential to negatively affect the Judicial proceedings of the region and the rights of other citizens, in this instance 9003 does not warrant the full brunt of the law. The crime in question was committed out of negligence rather than malice, and 9003 has expressed remorse over it. Additionally, the voting rights suspension is well within the range provided to similar crimes committed that would have negatively impacted some function of the government. While the suspension on running for office is somewhat lesser than that in the cases of Madjack and Ikea Rike, it is also the case that 9003's actions did not implicate their own office (or specific future offices), nor was the total crime comparatively as serious a threat to the region or other citizens, thus warranting a lesser punishment. Similarly, a restriction of the right to serve as a government official is not appropriate in this instance, as 9003's actions did not implicate their office or any future offices they make seek, only themselves and potentially another citizen. Thus, it should be left for any government officials to decide whether to appoint 9003 to a given office, and to the voters after the suspension of any right to run for office has expired.

Thank you,
Lady Raven Wing, on behalf of 9003

Summary:
Prosecution recommendations: 5 Months without Voting Rights, 6.5 Months Restrictions on standing for Elections.

Defense recommendations: 4 Months without Voting Rights, 4 Months Restrictions on standing for Elections.

Both of you are arguing for sentences lower then what the Defense is even asking for. My recommendations don't reach what the Prosecution is asking for but is slightly harsher then what the Defense is asking for.
 
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I feel like both the Prosecution and Defence's recommendations are, in fact, excessive. I feel like these cases are relevant here (also cited in the recommendations):
  • The North Pacific v. Whole India - Guilty of Fraud because he intentionally mislead TNP into believing a member of The Black Hawks forced him to quit his campaign. Sentenced to 70 days voting rights suspension and roughly a 2.5-3 months restriction on running for office.
  • The North Pacific V. The Democratic Republic of Tomb - Guilty of Gross Misconduct because he instruced a Minister (as Delegate) to not accept an application to join TNP's army unless the applicant promised to cease making negative comments about the army. Sentenced to 3 months voting rights suspension.
  • The North Pacific v. Madjack - Guilty of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud and Conspiracy to Commit Gross Misconduct, because he (i) wanted to provide material support to TNO, an enemy of TNP, in their quest to overthrow the government of TNP, and (ii) wanted to convince the region of the lie that El Fiji Grande is a spy in order to damage that person's chances of becoming a Delegate (MJ was running for Delegate, at the time). Sentenced to 3 months voting rights suspension and roughly 8 months restriction on running for office.
  • The North Pacific v. Bobberino - Guilty of Gross Misconduct because he used his position as MoD to share his election campaign via official channels of the NPA. Sentenced to 5 months voting rights suspension and removal from office.
The case before us today is the first that deals with Perjury. Besides that, it is different from the cited cases in the following ways:
  1. Unlike the other cases, this crime was committed by mistake. 9003 didn't mean to deceive the Court.
  2. The potential damage seems rather weak here too. Even if he had gotten away with the falsehood somehow, it's unclear to me how it would have significantly benefitted him.
As such, I'd say that a lower sentence than the ones listed is appropriate. I'd agree with Viv's suggestion.

CC: @Lord Lore @Vivanco
 
I should say that this movement is legal, for in the Court Rules it is never stated that those recommendations should be applied as a limit, therefore a guide for the judges to annalyze the approach by both of the parts.
 
The defense specifically wanted to forgo a ban on being in governmental office specifically in exchange for higher restrictions on the other two punishments for Perjury. You two can agree to this and publish a ruling on your own but I will not join any ruling that goes below what even the defense believes is appropriate.

I also don't agree with the comparisons with Gross Misconduct. As Gross Misconduct is in itself not a parallel with equal punishments. Fraud is the only close direct parallel due to how the court applied punishements for it and the only recent case of Fraud is Madjack's. Madjack was only convicted on Conspiracy after a plea deal. Conspiracy is DIRECTLY supposed to be a less severe form of the crime being committed, as such it would be a gross miscarriage of justice to convict someone for a non Conspiracy tempered charge much less harshly then one that is supposed to be tempered by our laws to be less serious.
 
The defense specifically wanted to forgo a ban on being in governmental office specifically in exchange for higher restrictions on the other two punishments for Perjury. You two can agree to this and publish a ruling on your own but I will not join any ruling that goes below what even the defense believes is appropriate.

I also don't agree with the comparisons with Gross Misconduct. As Gross Misconduct is in itself not a parallel with equal punishments. Fraud is the only close direct parallel due to how the court applied punishements for it and the only recent case of Fraud is Madjack's. Madjack was only convicted on Conspiracy after a plea deal. Conspiracy is DIRECTLY supposed to be a less severe form of the crime being committed, as such it would be a gross miscarriage of justice to convict someone for a non Conspiracy tempered charge much less harshly then one that is supposed to be tempered by our laws to be less serious.
That's fair, actually. I'd be willing to go for 4 months voting + election. @Vivanco @Lord Lore
 
court_seal.png


Sentencing Order of the Court of The North Pacific
Opinion drafted by saintpeter, joined by [[name(s)]], with [[name(s)]] [abstaining | dissenting]

The Court took into consideration the relevant clauses of the Legal Code:
Chapter 1: Criminal Code, Section 1.4: Perjury
14. "Perjury" is defined as the willful provision of deceptive testimony provided under oath and the provision of altered evidence with the intent to deceive in a criminal trial being heard by the Court of The North Pacific.
Chapter 2: Penal Code
1. Criminal acts may be punished by restrictions on basic rights, in a manner proportionate to the crime at the discretion of the Court unless specified in this chapter.
[. . .]
4. Perjury may be punished by the suspension of voting rights, restriction on standing for election, and/or restriction on serving as a government official for whatever finite duration the Court sees fit.
[. . .]
The Court took into consideration the sentencing recommendation by the Prosecution:
Your Honor, as the duly prosecutor of “The North Pacific V. 9003”, it is my job to recommend a sentencing in which can help craft the Court’s opinion, especially on this historic case. Today, as apart of the plea bargain between both parties, I’d like to announce our general agreement:
  1. 9003 will be pleading guilty in this case effectively;
  2. After re-examination of the defendant’s actions, we were agreed that while guilty of breaking this law known as “Perjury”, they did not do what they did in bad faith — or at least not maliciously use their government position to commit Perjury;
  3. In return for pleading guilty, we recommend no government barring or position restrictions are leveled on the defendant and;
  4. In exchange for not facing this one specific punishment, both sides have agreed instead of recommending a harder punishment for the other aforementioned punishments.
As written in the penal law, perjury can be punished in this such matter:

The Legal Code of The North Pacific:
“4. Perjury may be punished by the suspension of voting rights, restriction on standing for election, and/or restriction on serving as a government official for whatever finite duration the Court sees fit.”

As mentioned in our summary, we don’t wish for the “and/or restriction on serving as a government official for whatever finite duration the Court sees fit” punishment to be dealt out. We don’t think the government official abused their position in a way to commit this crime.[1]

This doesn’t mean the defendant can’t be guilty, though. Both the counsel and prosecution agreed that a harsher punishment (based off of strong reasoning and past precedence) by “the suspension of voting rights or restriction on standing for election” is appropriate to do as regardless perjury was still committed.

I have prepared my reasoning below, which you can use for your suggestion.

Mitigating Factors
  1. The Defendant has no prior criminal record in this region and has been an upstanding citizen;
  2. The Defendant has dedicated to civil service and the benefit for the region, especially in the courts, and most definitely didn’t mean any damage in this red-flag case filing that has led to their perjury offense;
  3. Upon retaining experienced legal counsel, and obtaining legal advice, the Defendant has entered their plea as Guilty. The Guilty plea ensures a speedy resolution to the trial and frees up the resources of the court. They are also aware that what they did were wrong, and hope to return to contributing to the benefit of our civil service;
  4. The Defendant did not abuse their duly office for leverage, influence, or conspiracy in their commission of perjury, and should not be used against them.
Aggravative Factors
  1. The Defendant has admitted to committing a crime against our region;
  2. The Defendant knowingly lied under oath, and while usage of their political office for leverage while committing perjury is out of the question, their action still poses a dangerous consequence to our legal system.
Profile about the Defendant

9003 has been a citizen of our region multiple times, with their most recent application being from November 2019. 9003 has always been seen as a figure that rose through our political system very fast. They have served as the Minister of Defense for the past two terms and have helped greatly in the development of our new judicial system by serving as an counsel for those who cannot represent themselves.

9003 has been commended by the World Assembly for his championing contributions to the greater community, and hailed by many TNP citizens for his work. He has never prided himself of malice and never wanted that to be his character.

Comparison to Similar Cases

The North Pacific V. The Democratic Republic of Tomb:
While this case was not in any way related to “Perjury”, “Gross Misconduct” shares a very similar penal punishment to our aforementioned crime. In that case, Tomb would be sentenced to three months of voting right suspension for committing Gross Misconduct. If we were to say Perjury’s punishment in a regular case should be like the Tomb case, a default suspension of voter rights for perjury should be 3 months as set by precedence. This however is no ordinary case, so I beg the court to take some other verdicts into consideration.

The North Pacific V. MadJack: This case is a more rocky one, as it had multiple other serious cases tied to it. In the end, however, the defendant MadJack was also sentenced to three months of voting right suspension for conspiracy to commit gross misconduct and conspiracy to commit fraud. Fraud is another crime that usually goes hand-and-hand with Perjury. Conspiracy usually grants a lighter punishment to the original defined one. If both Gross Misconduct and Fraud punishments are to be treated the same for Perjury, and we note that we have two halves of the regular default precedence punishment set by the above case for Tomb, we equate to 3 months again. Under more normal circumstances, the defendant would be sentenced for a voting rights suspension for 3 months. I want to take one more case into consideration, however.

The North Pacific V. Whole India: This case probably echoes the most for this case as both had plead deals and have penal punishments that are similar. In this case, the defendant Whole India would be found guilty of 75 days of voter right suspension (or roughly 2 and a half months). Not much should be said about this, however we see a difference in the longevity of the voter right suspension than the other 2 examples.

General Comments

With these 3 provided similar cases, multiple factors, evidence provided in the filing, the Defendant showing remorse, and generally having a good record, both the Prosecution and the Defense believe that the Defendant doesn’t deserve to be guilty of a specific punishment, and instead the Defendant should be given a harsher punishment in exchange for all of the other aforementioned punishments.

Final Recommendation

The Prosecution recommends their ability to serve as a government official should not be sanctioned to allow further better civil commitment. Basing off of the Whole India case, MadJack case, and Tomb case, I suggest a voter right suspension for 150 days (or 5 months, June 10th, 2021) and restrictions on standing for election until July 31st, 2021. Or roughly the restriction from standing on election for the May general election and March and July judicial elections.

Thank You,

Dinoium, Esq.
Regional Prosecutor
Representative of ‘The North Pacific’ in ‘The North Pacific V. 9003’
The Court took into consideration the sentencing recommendation by the Defence:
Sentencing Recommendation of the Defense:

Your Honor, my client has plead guilty to the charge of perjury. Per the Legal Code of our region, they may be punished by "the suspension of voting rights, restriction on standing for election, and/or restriction on serving as a government official for whatever finite duration the Court sees fit."

The Crime in Question:
9003, acting as a private citizen and in concert with others, drafted and then submitted an indictment of St George that resulted in the 2020 case of The North Pacific vs St George. When acting as a witness during the period of evidence submission, 9003 admitted that they had not previously seen several of the pieces of evidence that they had been asked to authenticate and which had been included in the indictment they had filed. Due to this, they were for Perjury. While 9003 acted in negligence rather than malice (as attested to by BMWSurfer, who worked with 9003 on the indictment and who said when asked that "I assisted 9003 with writing the brief. We used Google Docs to draft, and I used the 'suggest' feature to suggest changes to the wording and some of the specific evidence in the complaint. While I can't say for certain whether or not he read the complaint or not, I wouldn't be surprised if he copy and pasted the complaint without reading it."), they have still proven willing to acknowledge such and plead guilty in this case, rather than spawn a lengthy trial.

Mitigating Factors:

1. 9003, when first indicted availed themselves of competent legal advice offered by myself, and upon discussion and advice from the same, pleaded guilty to the charge of Perjury.

2. 9003 is a longtime citizen of The North Pacific, with a history of service to the region and no prior convictions or indictments.

3. 9003 is remorseful. The following is a statement from them that I have been authorized to include here for the purposes of indicating their remorse:
"I am sorry for my statements made in the case against MJ. I understand that it looks like the comments were made maliciously, I want to set the record straight that the comments were an honest mistake on my part. I regret this mistake and regret the interference it has caused within the justice system of The North Pacific. I hope that with this trial I can begin to make amends for my mistakes.

Comparative Cases:
This being the first case of Perjury to be tried under the current laws, there exists no directly comparative cases. However, several cases involving instances of Gross Misconduct are similar, due to their involvement in instances of threats to the order of the region. As these Gross Misconduct cases involve threats to the Executive and constitutional order of the region, so does Perjury generally threaten the Judicial order of the region.

1. In the case of Ikea Rike, they were involved in an attempt to overthrow the government of The North Pacific. Their punishment for Gross Misconduct in this case amounted to a removal from office and a total of 3 months voting rights suspension. Combined with other relevant punishments, Ikea Rike's total punishments that are shared with Perjury include a year of not being allowed to seek or hold office and 6 months of voting rights restrictions. This case is primiarly instructive as an upper bound on punishment, as Ikea Rike committed far more serious crimes than did 9003.

2. In the case of Bobberino, they were punished for the use of their office to potentially negatively impact the election and the rights of NPA soldiers. This punishment consisted of 5 months voting rights suspension, and being removed from the office then held. This case is most similar to that of 9003, in the relative scale of the crime and potential impact of the crime had it gone unreported.

3. In the 2019 case of The North Pacific v. Madjack, they were punished for an attempted conspiracy to subvert the contemporary election through having the New Pacific Order fake evidence of his opponent being an agent of the NPO in exchange for favors as delegate. Ultimately, Madjack was punished for conspiracy to commit Gross Misconduct and Fraud, and received 3 months voting rights suspension and the inability to run for office for about 8 months. This too is a higher crime than the one committed by 9003 due to the nature of the attempted crime, although not the specific charges.

Final Recommendation:

Considering all of this, the Defense submits that a suspension of 9003's voting rights for 4 months, and the same on the ability to stand for election, is an appropriate punishment for Perjury in this instance. While Perjury is a serious crime with the potential to negatively affect the Judicial proceedings of the region and the rights of other citizens, in this instance 9003 does not warrant the full brunt of the law. The crime in question was committed out of negligence rather than malice, and 9003 has expressed remorse over it. Additionally, the voting rights suspension is well within the range provided to similar crimes committed that would have negatively impacted some function of the government. While the suspension on running for office is somewhat lesser than that in the cases of Madjack and Ikea Rike, it is also the case that 9003's actions did not implicate their own office (or specific future offices), nor was the total crime comparatively as serious a threat to the region or other citizens, thus warranting a lesser punishment. Similarly, a restriction of the right to serve as a government official is not appropriate in this instance, as 9003's actions did not implicate their office or any future offices they make seek, only themselves and potentially another citizen. Thus, it should be left for any government officials to decide whether to appoint 9003 to a given office, and to the voters after the suspension of any right to run for office has expired.

Thank you,
Lady Raven Wing, on behalf of 9003
The Court took into consideration its sentencing order in The North Pacific v. Madjack:
Under The North Pacific Legal Code Chapter 1, Clauses 12, 22, and 23, The Court sees fit that Madjack will be punished for Conspiracy to commit Gross Misconduct and Conspiracy to commit Fraud with a suspension of voting rights for a period of three months.

Additionally, Madjack will be unable to run as a candidate in any election, through February 1st, 2020.

Madjack has no criminal history and has positively contributed to our region. The Court sees no reason to place long-term impediments on his ability to participate as a citizen and make his voice heard by the various government bodies. As such, we felt a minimal voting rights restriction is appropriate given the facts of the case. However, the Court cannot ignore the nature of the attempted crime: If carried out, it would have been a subversion of our democratic elections and an unfounded smear against another citizen's good name. And even if not seriously attempted, the defendant would have been vulnerable to blackmail had the NPO members he contacted not informed the authorities. Given this, a longer restriction on running for elected office is warranted.

The Speaker of the RA and The North Pacific Election Commission will be informed of this verdict and instructed to make appropriate requests of forum administration.

This decision will stand unless overturned by an appeal. The Court hereby closes the case of The North Pacific v. Madjack
The Court finds as follows:
Under the Legal Code of The North Pacific (chapter 1, clause 14; and chapter 2, clause 1 and 4), the Court issues the following sentence to 9003 for perjury:
  1. Suspension of the right to vote for a period of 4 months, ending on June 1st, 2021;
  2. Suspension of the right to stand in elections for a period of 4 months, ending on June 1st, 2021.
The Defendant was indicted on one charge of perjury, following an incorrect statement made by Defendant—while under oath—during proceedings in the matter of The North Pacific v St George. They claimed they had not been aware of a series of quotes allegedly made by St George until they were posted in a thread related to the case's proceedings, despite having provided these quotes as evidence themselves. Providing false testimony betrays the trust of the Court in the reliability of its witnesses, and thus is a serious crime.

This false statement appeared to have done little to no damage, as it was easily recognisable as false. Upon indictment, the Defendant admitted fault and plead guilty before this Court. This was done as part of a deal between the Prosecution and Defence, in exchange for which both would recommend the Defendant not be restricted from serving as a government official. The crime did not involve 9003's government positions, and 9003 has a formidable record as public servant in The North Pacific. As such, the Court agrees with the Prosecutor and Defence that such a restriction would not be in the region's best interests.

The Court struggles to identify a clear motive for 9003's criminal actions. The false statements were sufficiently transparent that it seems highly unlikely no-one would have noticed the fact that the statement is incorrect. It thus appears correct that this was an "honest mistake" on the part of 9003.

The Court has considered the sentencing recommendations issued by both parties, as well as its sentencing order in The North Pacific v. Madjack. In this case, the Court considered charges of conspiracy to commit gross misconduct and conspiracy to commit fraud. Madjack's voting rights were suspended for 3 months. In the absence of previous sentences for perjury, this case provides us some guidance, while keeping in mind the differenct circumstances of the case, and the fact this case concerned conspiracy only.

In weighing these matters, the Court finds that suspension of the right to vote and right to stand in elections for 4 months to be the most appropriate sentence.

This decision will stand unless overturned by an appeal. The Court hereby closes the case of The North Pacific v 9003.
 
Sentence posted and relevant authorities informed.

[14-Dec-20 10:35 PM] ra#9794
@Court There's been an indictment against 9003. Please check the forum thread in order to discuss the acceptance or rejection.



[14-Dec-20 10:45 PM] pete#2216
Commented.


[16-Dec-20 09:13 PM] pete#2216
@Court Thread opened, Defendant appropriately informed: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194061/

{Embed}
The North Pacific v 9003
This Court is now in session and will be hearing the case The North Pacific v 9003.


Indictment

I bring forward the following charge(s) holding that all the below is true and honest to the best of my belief.

Name of Complainant: McMasterdonia

Name(s) of Accused: 9003

Date(s) of Alleged...


[27-Dec-20 03:22 PM] ra#9794
In the next days I will post an update on my idea of the amendments for the Court Rules.
I hope the thread explaining the Law Clerk is to be gotten before the next Judicial Election so we can work on it @pete#2216


[29-Dec-20 01:17 PM] ra#9794
A new R4R has been filed @Court

{Embed}
[R4R] Illegal actions by partners of the North Pacific Army during ...
1. What law, government policy, or action (taken by a government official) do you request that the Court review?
The decision by Ministers of Defense to allow the NPA to conduct joint operations with organizations who do not follow the standards set for the NPA in the Legal Code on that joint...


[29-Dec-20 01:17 PM] ra#9794
@Just_A_Lord_Lore , would you mind taking care of it?


[29-Dec-20 02:19 PM] ra#9794
So that all members of the court can be active


[30-Dec-20 12:34 AM] ra#9794
If you can't, do tell me ASAP so I can take it over


[30-Dec-20 07:47 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
@Court I am in favor of accepting this request. They have standing and a valid legal question. I would be willing to moderate if needed.


[30-Dec-20 01:41 PM] ra#9794
Do moderate it, please @Just_A_Lord_Lore


[30-Dec-20 02:18 PM] pete#2216
Agree.


[30-Dec-20 07:10 PM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
Given the luck of the court this term I can only assume this humble r4r will somehow snowball into 5 R4Rs and 3 Criminal Cases.


[30-Dec-20 09:50 PM] ra#9794
This is where the fun begins


[06-Jan-21 03:28 PM] ra#9794
This will most definitely rise a R4R


[06-Jan-21 06:26 PM] pete#2216
I have my thoughts about what happened but will reserve them in deference to the Court.


[07-Jan-21 09:07 PM] pete#2216
@Court It's time to consider the R4R on the military thing. Let's use the thread on the forum to discuss. LL: can you send a reply in the thread to notify people we're considering it? Also, Prae's brief is too late I think. Will we accept it?


[08-Jan-21 12:00 AM] ra#9794
I have talked in the Private Court thread about Praetor's acceptance


[08-Jan-21 12:04 AM] ra#9794
@pete Dinoium has been sworn. https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/7019276/post-10374252

{Embed}
Oaths of Office
I, Dragonstar5674, do hereby solemnly swear that during my term as Deputy Minister of World Assembly Affairs, I will uphold the ideals of Democracy, Freedom, and Justice of The Region of The North Pacific. I will use the powers and rights granted to me through The North Pacific Constitution and...


[09-Jan-21 06:36 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
I am in favor of accepting it and 9003's response. That being said @Court I have given my current standing in the thread, just waiting to see where you two are currently.


[10-Jan-21 05:35 PM] pete#2216
I commented in the thread.


[11-Jan-21 12:16 PM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
@Court First draft is now in the chambers. It is not long shouldn't take long to review I am a firm believer in the "Why use a five dollar word when a 50 center one will do" and "Why use 100 words when one will do" mentalities.


[14-Jan-21 12:43 AM] pete#2216
@Court https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194210/


[17-Jan-21 08:00 PM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
Should have another draft ready tomorrow morning. I have been busy with RL recently.


[17-Jan-21 08:20 PM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
@Court My views have been noted.


[17-Jan-21 08:20 PM] pete#2216
I'll comment in a couple hours.


[18-Jan-21 02:14 AM] ra#9794
I have tried to do a comment but I have been unable to. I will be doing it tomorrow


[18-Jan-21 08:59 AM] pete#2216
I commented just now.


[19-Jan-21 12:36 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
I submitted counter arguements to both of your recommendations.


[19-Jan-21 12:37 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
I find your stance to go below the defenses request odd @ra


[19-Jan-21 09:43 AM] pete#2216
I posted some points in the thread.


[19-Jan-21 04:23 PM] ra#9794
I might have misread it


[24-Jan-21 11:55 PM] pete#2216
@Court As to the R4R: I think there is an agreement as to the current draft (at least from me). If so, LL can release it. As to the court case, I'll draft a judgement in the coming couple days. Feel free to continue to discuss the exact punishment in the mean time.


[25-Jan-21 03:00 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
Currently at work i will get on it when i get home close to midnight


[26-Jan-21 06:15 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
@Court Just want to get a definitive answer on if you are joining the current draft that is proposed.


[26-Jan-21 06:20 AM] ra#9794
Aye


[26-Jan-21 10:24 AM] pete#2216
Yes.


[27-Jan-21 12:16 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
Posted and Discord Log has been added to thread. Chambers thread has been locked.


[27-Jan-21 12:24 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
Also given that the Minister of Defense changes mid-case. I sent a courtesy message about the ruling to the current Minister of Defense, Nimarya.


[27-Jan-21 02:07 AM] pete#2216
@Court Can y'all share your view on the sentence I proposed? I'll write up a draft tomorrow.


[31-Jan-21 01:52 AM] pete#2216
I'll get up a draft tomorrow, I promise. Meanwhile, can you voice your opinion on the new proposal, @Just_A_Lord_Lore?


[01-Feb-21 05:13 AM] Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581
I was waiting for a draft to formulate my opinion


[01-Feb-21 08:28 AM] pete#2216
Fair. This week has been exceptionally busy for me, but I will write a draft in the coming few hours.


[01-Feb-21 06:32 PM] pete#2216
@Court Finally, the draft: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9194210/#post-10380113
* ra#9794 is the account of Vivanco, CJ. pete#2216 is the account of saintpeter, J. Just_A_Lord_Lore#2581 is the account of Lord Lore, J.
 
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