Cretox State's Security Council Application

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The Security Council has nominated @Cretox State for a seat on the Security Council. The vote for the nomination, with 6 Ayes, 2 nays, 2 abstains, and all members present.

The Chair now presents this to the Regional Assembly for discussion.
 
Would the Security Councillors mind giving an explanation for the rationale behind their vote?

I'm also mostly interested in hearing the thoughts of those who voted Aye as to:

1) Whether there is a size at which the Security Council should generally be a maximum number of Councillors at? If so, what would be the size?

2) Cretox has been in the region for less than a year and has held a government position for only a couple of months IIRC, does this short time period in the region not hold any concerns for those involved?

For Cretox:

You abstained on both votes regarding the FOIA for the Security Council. Mind giving us your thoughts on those pieces of legislation and FOIA and the SC generally?

Do you think there should be any further changes to legislation around the SC?

What do you think is the weakest link of the SC? How do you fix it?
 
Would the Security Councillors mind giving an explanation for the rationale behind their vote?

I'm also mostly interested in hearing the thoughts of those who voted Aye as to:

1) Whether there is a size at which the Security Council should generally be a maximum number of Councillors at? If so, what would be the size?

2) Cretox has been in the region for less than a year and has held a government position for only a couple of months IIRC, does this short time period in the region not hold any concerns for those involved?

1)I don't believe there is a maximum size for the SC. Capable and qualified individuals are and should always be welcome to join. The numbers being what they are would mean we do not feel compelled to seek out additional members. There have been periods where the SC has made an effort to recruit additional members when we had few active or just few members period, we clearly are not in such a period currently. But the membership will ebb and flow over time, and I think it's better to have people in place for when that number does decline.

2)Time in the region is an important consideration, but it is not the only one. For me, it is important to see what a prospective member is capable of in their service to the region and if they have the qualities and skills (particularly endotarting) to do the job. More time allows prospective candidates to demonstrate these things, it's true, but someone can also be around for much longer than this and still no have done much or demonstrated these qualities. If we see everything Cretox has done and how many endorsements he can get and who he is after this relatively short time, and our conclusion is to say not yet and wait for some arbitrary period (another term in office, completing this one, a full year whatever), it seems like the time is more of a silly limitation than anything. I can only speak for myself of course, trust has to be earned and some people are slower to offer it. If each person in TNP has a set of criteria they use to judge an applicant to the SC, and that applicant does not meet that criteria, then by all means, vote against. Personally, I think Cretox has done a lot with the short time he has been here, and like many players who were given a chance early-on (myself included) I think he has proven not only his ability, but also his loyalty and trustworthiness as a part of this region.

As I said in the SC's discussion for this application, we are entering a period where we're hoping for more transparency and engagement from the SC. Current active and involved players who can also conceivably do the work of the SC should be considered if we want to change the culture of the SC. We have a lot of experience in the SC, but we should also look to the future. That is why I supported Cretox's application to the SC.
 
The Majority Statement from the Security Council:

Cretox is a committed and active member of the community and government who has demonstrated an affinity for the region and a knack for gathering endorsements. We believe that his demonstrated commitment and ability along with his belief in a more present and involved Security Council will make him an asset to the Security Council as we seek to improve our transparency and outreach efforts to the region. We anticipate he will be an enthusiastic participant in our efforts and a fine example of the next generation of Security Councillors.
 
You abstained on both votes regarding the FOIA for the Security Council. Mind giving us your thoughts on those pieces of legislation and FOIA and the SC generally?
Certainly. In case you're curious, I abstained on both votes due to my status as a Deputy Speaker at the time, and not wanting to inadvertently influence citizens' votes as a result.

Regarding FOIA and the SC generally, I'm seeing a steadily increasing expectation of transparency from government officials, including elected officials, Ministers, and the Security Council. This is a good thing: transparency is the first step in holding officials accountable and the first line of defense against wrongdoing. Giving citizens greater reason to trust their officials strengthens the trust that citizens have in said officials, and trust is essential in maintaining regional stability.

At the same time, I firmly believe that Security Councilors should have the confidentiality necessary to do their work. @Oracle's North Pacific Security Council Disclosure Act strikes a good balance between the two, and establishes a straightforward and enforceable process for acquiring information while protecting the SC's needed confidentiality, especially that of past Councilors. While your (@Praetor's) GOAT Act effectively got people talking about the need for a bill to provide for greater SC transparency and directly resulted in such a bill becoming law, I feel it lacked crucial provisions (specifically the previous Councilors exception) and agree with Prydania's decision to veto it.
 
You have only been registered on the forum since May, and your only senior government position was Minister of World Assembly Affairs. Do you believe that you have enough seniority in the region to serve on the Security Council?
 
You have only been registered on the forum since May, and your only senior government position was Minister of World Assembly Affairs. Do you believe that you have enough seniority in the region to serve on the Security Council?
If your concern is that this could interfere with my ability to perform my duties as a Security Councilor, then I can assure you that it won't. I believe that in my time here, I've demonstrated the trustworthiness, dedication to the region, and ability to handle sensitive information and discussions that would be expected of any Councilor. I doubt the Council would've passed my application and issued a statement of support had they believed I would be unable to effectively serve in the position.
 
Do you hold office in any other region? Any other ties? Which regions?

In the event that a conflict occurred between that region and TNP, what would you do?
 
I’m curious why the SC voted against admitting Brendog who has held more positions and ultimately been here longer, but is mostly in favour of Cretox. I have no issue with either personally, but am curious about this assessment.
 
What have the naysayers to say?
I’m curious why the SC voted against admitting Brendog who has held more positions and ultimately been here longer, but is mostly in favour of Cretox. I have no issue with either personally, but am curious about this assessment.
For what it's worth, I disagree with the SC's assessment. I always thought getting onto the Security Council was supposed to be one of the hardest things to do in the region, even more so than being elected Delegate. It wasn't supposed to be enough to just do a few positions and make minimum endorsements and influence to get on. In my opinion, there's supposed to be a long track record of service to the region that establishes a lasting commitment to the region and the highest degree of trust. With as short of a service record as Cretox has, I'm concerned that their admittance to the SC would serve as a message to our enemies that getting onto the SC is easy now, which could cause lasting damage to regional security should someone with nefarious intentions manage to do it.

I understand we want the SC to be more active in daily regional affairs and not be a retirement home, but I think some of us have become a bit too obsessed with that and aren't balancing that with the security needs of the region and how difficult we want to make it to compromise.
 
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Do you hold office in any other region? Any other ties? Which regions?

In the event that a conflict occurred between that region and TNP, what would you do?
These are excellent questions, and I'm glad someone asked them.

My positions of note in other regions are WA-based with the exception of one: Deputy of News and Records in TEP. Other than that, notable positions in other regions include OWL (Office of WA Legislation) senior staff- this is the rough equivalent of a deputy minister here. I'm also a WA staffer in Europeia and TEP, though those are obviously low-level positions. I also have a few unrelated ambassador positions- in Europe, TSP, and TEP. We are treatied allies with all these regions, I do not hold any high-level positions (Minister or equivalent) outside of TNP, and none of the positions I do hold outside of TNP give me access to any highly sensitive information.

I've said it before in various channels: I believe that affinity for the WA is a very universal skillset. As a Deputy and later Minister of WA Affairs, I felt it was (and still is) my responsibility to ensure that the ministry is continually growing, improving, and evolving. That's why I decided to hold these WA positions in regions we're close to with strong WA programs- they offer access to unique perspectives on how WA ministries are run, which I can evaluate and potentially incorporate to improve our Ministry's own operations. More than that, these positions (albeit low-level) have given me lobbying opportunities I wouldn't have had otherwise, which I've used to great effect on numerous votes. They have also allowed allowed me to make connections with regional WA figures, which only strengthens our region's already solid rapport in the WA with these allies.

Regarding a potential conflict, I would obviously seek a swift and fair resolution to said conflict through the proper channels and mechanisms. My loyalty is and will be to TNP first and foremost, and any external position I may have is always held to allow me to better serve TNP. In my time as Minister here, I've by definition had access to sensitive information concerning TNP. There have been no issues thus far regarding my handling of said information, and I have never leaked or mishandled such information to date.
 
I’m curious why the SC voted against admitting Brendog who has held more positions and ultimately been here longer, but is mostly in favour of Cretox. I have no issue with either personally, but am curious about this assessment.
This was the Security Council's statement on rejecting Brendog's application, I suppose that would at least partially answer your question: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9192464/
 
Thanks for the information Sil. Thanks for the response Cretox.

This was the Security Council's statement on rejecting Brendog's application, I suppose that would at least partially answer your question: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9192464/

I look at this and it seems like the major issue was a perceived lack of continuous activity in the region.

It makes me wonder, given Cretox's absurdly short time period in the region, how could he have demonstrated he is able to contribute continuous activity? He has not even been here for a year so it feels weird that we are drawing conclusions about Cretox's commitment from such a small data set.

This weirdly gives me the impression looking at the two different applications that being newer to the region is going to help give you an advantage in applying to the Security Council...
 
What have the naysayers to say?
Cretox is a promising newcomer in TNP. If he continues on his current trajectory, I'm sure he will land in the highest government offices here and make a significant impact. However, I am unable to support his application at this time due to his limited length of involvement in TNP. As Security Councilor is an indefinite position, we need to be certain that any individuals let in are up for the job, bring wisdom to the table, and will stand the test of time. Following continued exemplary service to TNP, I would be happy to support Cretox's SC application.
 
Thanks for the information Sil. Thanks for the response Cretox.



I look at this and it seems like the major issue was a perceived lack of continuous activity in the region.

It makes me wonder, given Cretox's absurdly short time period in the region, how could he have demonstrated he is able to contribute continuous activity? He has not even been here for a year so it feels weird that we are drawing conclusions about Cretox's commitment from such a small data set.

This weirdly gives me the impression looking at the two different applications that being newer to the region is going to help give you an advantage in applying to the Security Council...
I guess I can see why you would think that, but that is not the case. In my case, I am operating under the assumption that Cretox, having in my view met the other qualifications I would consider necessary (and more important than length of time in the region), will continue to do so in the months ahead. It’s not hard at all to imagine someone else who has been in the region for a short period and working in a ministry who nevertheless is not qualified in other ways, and therefore would not win the SC’s support. An arbitrary period of time is not some magic bullet that makes someone safe or automatically qualified. It simply allows people to more easily lend their trust and have ample evidence to support their beliefs and convictions about someone. Some people need that time to cast that vote - as I have said, if that is the case, I understand why they would need to vote against this confirmation. A couple on the SC voted precisely on these grounds, and I respectfully disagree with them but understand why they did it.

The obsession with activity, as some have called it, is an interesting charge. I have long heard how activity is a perceived problem for the SC, one we have been trying to work on. I supported Brendog’s application, and my take on that vote is that “sustained activity” means something different than how I think it’s being viewed here. Brendog has undoubtedly been an active part of our region over a sustained period of time, and he finished his work whenever he had it. However, his service overall came with starts and stops, and he’s not always readily present for any given term. That’s not a bad thing, and is true for many in the region, but this was enough for some people to decide against supporting him for the SC. It was not enough for me, because as I have said, I value other criteria more, and don’t believe that arbitrary chunks of time should be held above all else. It is still my belief this council should have supported him and nominated him. It isn’t really fair to either of them to try to compare them to each other, though. I can see how it’s useful for people to learn how SC members evaluate and vote on nominees and to draw conclusions from past votes, but every applicant is unique and brings experience and a record that has to be weighed along with everything else we know about the applicant. It’s a judgment call each time. We should continue to consider each applicant on their specific merits and not try to make them and every applicant before them fit into the same cookie cutter mold.

Waiting for more time to pass is easy. Anyone can wait out a clock. It’s also undoubtedly the safer thing to do. The longer someone is around, the better odds you have of getting a better sense for who they are and how they react to different scenarios. More information is always a good thing. I completely understand why people would prefer to have more time before making this decision. But I don’t believe in this being an impassable line any more than I believe the number of SC members is some impassable line. Each member of the SC made a call on this applicant as we have in previous votes, and it doesn’t bind us to future votes, because the next applicants will present their own challenges and realities for us to reckon with.

I don’t want you guys voting on this nominee out of some fear that it’s setting some new or dangerous standard, I hope that you vote based on your own criteria while taking into account what we on the SC have also said, and decide for yourself how best to dole out your trust and what standards and qualifications you wish for the applicant to meet to become a member of the SC.
 
Frankly, I subscribe to the theory that "if you're good enough, you're old enough." Cretox has shown in their time here that they are dedicated to the region, highly competent in all matters they are involved, and are a highly active member of TNP fully deserving of inclusion on the SC.
 
I'm not sure where I can draw upon a basis for opposition to this. This region has a penchant for embracing new blood, and in a body that might need it most. For unless something new comes to light.
 
Cretox has shown their dedication to the region throughout this year, and I have no doubt they will continue to do so. While I understand reservations about the length of time Cretox has been here, I agree with the reasonings of MadJack, Ghost, and Bob above and, like them, support his confirmation.

That being said, I motion this to a vote.
 
The motion and second are noted and a vote has been scheduled to begin on Monday.
 
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