Prosecution for The North Pacific v. Ihese

Prydania

Prydania

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Prydania
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lordgigaice
Mr. Speaker @St George and assembled members of the RA...

I am formally submitting @Vivanco as my choice to serve as prosecutor for the case of "The North Pacific v. Ihese."
 
The Delegate has nominated @Vivanco as Prosecutor for the case of "The North Pacific v. Ihese"

I will be, once an appropriate amount of time passes, put the following motion to vote:
The Regional Assembly approves and confirms the appointment of Vivanco as prosecutor for the case of "The North Pacific v. Ihese.
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I would welcome a statement from the delegate or from Vivanco on why they are appropriate for this role, and encourage all citizens to question the appointee.
 
Good afternoon;

For those who do not know me, I will present myself. I'm Vivanco, former Attorney General to The North Pacific.
I've been a citizen of the region for two whole years, and in that time I have been active in the legal world, being commenting on the legal activities of the region, on the cases, and running for justice in several ocassions.

As far as most can tell, I have experience with the prosecuting part of a trial due to the fact of my prior standing as Attorney General, and I have been keeping myself busy studying the legal history of the region, and keeping tabs with the actuality of our RA.

Prydania came to me due to them trusting my judgement, and to have the position of the Delegacy backing my appointment is a honour, and I will answer any question that any of the citizens may present upon me.
 
Will you abandon the prosecution immediately after being confirmed, so that we can leave Pigeonstan to deal with his own nonsense?
 
How will you deal with the weak evidence that doesnt meet the requirements of the Rules of Evidence?
 
With the evidence that we can reach and access with the proper method of introduction of evidence, I do believe this could be a strong case, for those who are no longer available due to the moderation actions, we could get in contact with those who were active in the RBM in that time in order to get the witness testimony as seen in the Section 3rd, 4th point, 1st point of the Court Rules. The screenshot provided on our own forum will still be accesible in the following link so they could be within reach and able to be entered by the rules of evidence.
 
Vivanco:
With the evidence that we can reach and access with the proper method of introduction of evidence, I do believe this could be a strong case, for those who are no longer available due to the moderation actions, we could get in contact with those who were active in the RBM in that time in order to get the witness testimony as seen in the Section 3rd, 4th point, 1st point of the Court Rules. The screenshot provided on our own forum will still be accesible in the following link so they could be within reach and able to be entered by the rules of evidence.
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yes my evidence is real and accessible along with the fact that some of the deleted evidence was confirmed by (i cant get the mention) picarin in this post
forum.thenorthpacific.org

The Public Gallery - The North Pacific v. Ihese

As @Ihese essentially rage-quitted on the RMB, moved his nation to Chicken overlords (thereby no longer maintains his presence in TNP), even went as far as requesting for an account deletion on the forums, will the trial continue?
forum.thenorthpacific.org forum.thenorthpacific.org
and what he is saying being provably true to the fullest extent as you can see ihese did flee the region to CO i have recounted the evidence
imgur.com

EVIDENCE

Imgur: The magic of the Internet
imgur.com imgur.com
so here is my evidence (plus the stuff in the case)
 
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Gorundu:
Will you abandon the prosecution immediately after being confirmed, so that we can leave Pigeonstan to deal with his own nonsense?
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I do believe there might be a defendible case if the evidence is submitted properly.
 
Pigeonstan:
i think it is
ihese's actions are COMPLETELY unnacceptable and as such we must respond with immediet and swift action
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Your opinion is noted. However, I am speaking to the Potential Prosecutor, not you.
 
Dreadton:
Is it in the best interest of the region to prosecute this case?
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It could be in a legal point due to the lack of current legislation and/or case law on citizen - on - citizen action such as this one would be with the whole harassment bit. And besides, the ruling by the court may be final, and could put this whole thing to a final rest, giving besides of a finish to the current Pidgeonstan court activity, a legal background for future cases that may include these characteristics.
 
Vivanco:
It could be in a legal point due to the lack of current legislation and/or case law on citizen - on - citizen action such as this one would be with the whole harassment bit. And besides, the ruling by the court may be final, and could put this whole thing to a final rest, giving besides of a finish to the current Pidgeonstan court activity, a legal background for future cases that may include these characteristics.
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Why, exactly, do we need to legitimatize this circus?
 
I don't know whether I should be happy that Vivanco is actually willing to take this case to the end. Honestly, I am quite conflicted - surely this would be a case where we take the popcorns out and explore some uncharted territory, especially with regards to the unusual circumstances of the case. However, I can probably see the ending, even though I am no expert - this case would probably get thrown out of court unless the prosecution can actually build some solid case, a scenario which I have yet to see evidence of. It is not that I am looking at this case with tainted glasses and complaining, like many other people, that this is nothing but a waste of time, or even a clown fiesta based on our complainant's actions thus far. I just, unfortunately, don't see how this deserves the amount of resources and time we are giving it with this court case and all. If Vivanco can convince me with some substance, maybe I will take your word for it and let this case proceed by approving the nomination. If not, I am afraid I will join the naysayers and reject this nomination, looking for someone else who would drop the case.
 
Cretox State:
Why, exactly, do we need to legitimatize this circus?
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Fregerson:
I don't know whether I should be happy that Vivanco is actually willing to take this case to the end. Honestly, I am quite conflicted - surely this would be a case where we take the popcorns out and explore some uncharted territory, especially with regards to the unusual circumstances of the case. However, I can probably see the ending, even though I am no expert - this case would probably get thrown out of court unless the prosecution can actually build some solid case, a scenario which I have yet to see evidence of. It is not that I am looking at this case with tainted glasses and complaining, like many other people, that this is nothing but a waste of time, or even a clown fiesta based on our complainant's actions thus far. I just, unfortunately, don't see how this deserves the amount of resources and time we are giving it with this court case and all. If Vivanco can convince me with some substance, maybe I will take your word for it and let this case proceed by approving the nomination. If not, I am afraid I will join the naysayers and reject this nomination, looking for someone else who would drop the case.
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About the Fraud
We see within the RBM and the screencaps that Pidgeon points at us not only the most toxic behaviour by the defendant, but also how they claim it is not true and a lie within the region's forum. This falsehood of reality done with the intention of a pursuit of damage of Pidgeonstan's image within the region to end up with their expulsion and/or animosity within the rest of the population of the region, would constitute the crime of Fraud as seen in the Legal Code.

About the Gross Misconduct
Due to Ihese being a citizen, they have pledged loyalty to the region within the citizenship application thread. This oath says among other things "obedience to her laws and responsible action as a member of her society". If the first crime is to be seen as true, then the first part of obedience to their laws would have been broken, but not only that part of the oath would have been broken, for the next part about responsibility would be broken as well with the constant defamation and even humiliation of the victim's image, along with the harassment presented upon the court, to be nothing that an average member of this region could consider as "responsable".

So, I do believe this is a solid case.
 
Vivanco:
About the Fraud
We see within the RBM and the screencaps that Pidgeon points at us not only the most toxic behaviour by the defendant, but also how they claim it is not true and a lie within the region's forum. This falsehood of reality done with the intention of a pursuit of damage of Pidgeonstan's image within the region to end up with their expulsion and/or animosity within the rest of the population of the region, would constitute the crime of Fraud as seen in the Legal Code.

About the Gross Misconduct
Due to Ihese being a citizen, they have pledged loyalty to the region within the citizenship application thread. This oath says among other things "obedience to her laws and responsible action as a member of her society". If the first crime is to be seen as true, then the first part of obedience to their laws would have been broken, but not only that part of the oath would have been broken, for the next part about responsibility would be broken as well with the constant defamation and even humiliation of the victim's image, along with the harassment presented upon the court, to be nothing that an average member of this region could consider as "responsable".

So, I do believe this is a solid case.
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Are you aware that being toxic is not a crime under the Legal Code, but a moderation issue? Can you point to the exact post(s) where Ihese lied about Pigeonstan? (Because for the life of me, I couldn't decipher how the evidence Pigeonstan presented even fit together.)

Lastly, you said Ihese has broken his oath of responsible action. Do you believe Pigeonstan has acted responsibly as a citizen of TNP?
 
Que sí, que vale. Que me quites la ciudadanía ya, que me da igual, que no pienso volver a TNP. Quedaos con la rata esta de mierda con alas. Ya os arrepentiréis de tener a gentuza como Pigeonstan, ya...
 
Ihese:
Que sí, que vale. Que me quites la ciudadanía ya, que me da igual, que no pienso volver a TNP. Quedaos con la rata esta de mierda con alas. Ya os arrepentiréis de tener a gentuza como Pigeonstan, ya...
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I was expecting swear words in your post, and I was not disappointed.
 
Ihese:
Que sí, que vale. Que me quites la ciudadanía ya, que me da igual, que no pienso volver a TNP. Quedaos con la rata esta de mierda con alas. Ya os arrepentiréis de tener a gentuza como Pigeonstan, ya...
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Congrats, you have just made your situation the worse possible.
Pigeonstan:
i think it is
ihese's actions are COMPLETELY unnacceptable and as such we must respond with immediet and swift action
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That sentence from you is a complete joke.

I quite frankly think that both of you should be kicked out of the region (especially you, Pigeonstan) for the time being, and if this wasn't TNP I would have already done it long time ago.
 
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Ihese:
Que sí, que vale. Que me quites la ciudadanía ya, que me da igual, que no pienso volver a TNP. Quedaos con la rata esta de mierda con alas. Ya os arrepentiréis de tener a gentuza como Pigeonstan, ya...
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it's worth. That you take away my citizenship now, that I do not care, that I am not going to return to TNP. Stay with the rat this shit with wings. You will regret having a mob like Pigeonstan, already ...
google translate
 
Gorundu:
Are you aware that being toxic is not a crime under the Legal Code, but a moderation issue? Can you point to the exact post(s) where Ihese lied about Pigeonstan? (Because for the life of me, I couldn't decipher how the evidence Pigeonstan presented even fit together.)

Lastly, you said Ihese has broken his oath of responsible action. Do you believe Pigeonstan has acted responsibly as a citizen of TNP?
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On the lie about Pidgeonstan, we find this certain warning of the game's moderation upon a message of Tasihese, an alt nation of Ihese (as we can see within this post ) that, with clarity, insults Pidgeonstan. This act is then clarified by Pidgeonstan here, to which Ihese claims that Pidgeonstan is lying and making themselves look like the one in control of the situation due to them being "calm" and that people "know how they are" (as seen here).

Due to the topic of the matter in which we find this discussion, it's easy to believe that this lie was done on purpose in order to continue damaging Pidgeonstan's image.

About that being toxic is not a crime under the Legal Code, that is not the crime that we're looking and having at hand. But the personal actions do have influence over the crimes at hand.

As far as I know of, Pidgeonstan has not been engaged in an active harassment of another individual, in their actions within the region they have not been deemed irresponsible by the juditial, and thus I cannot tell.
 
Just my opinion of course on why I support Vivanco. This opinion is gonna be controversial, but I've always been a big unconventional- (I've sued/faced RMBers in NS legal courts before in my NS past, to the excitement of bored judges :3 )

Vivanco:
On the lie about Pidgeonstan, we find this certain warning of the game's moderation upon a message of Tasihese, an alt nation of Ihese (as we can see within this post ) that, with clarity, insults Pidgeonstan. This act is then clarified by Pidgeonstan here, to which Ihese claims that Pidgeonstan is lying and making themselves look like the one in control of the situation due to them being "calm" and that people "know how they are" (as seen here).

Due to the topic of the matter in which we find this discussion, it's easy to believe that this lie was done on purpose in order to continue damaging Pidgeonstan's image.

About that being toxic is not a crime under the Legal Code, that is not the crime that we're looking and having at hand. But the personal actions do have influence over the crimes at hand.

As far as I know of, Pidgeonstan has not been engaged in an active harassment of another individual, in their actions within the region they have not been deemed irresponsible by the juditial, and thus I cannot tell.
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After reading Vivano's legal analyses, I can see a case. He's clearly done his research in the non-OOC aspect- the fraud aspect.

And this entire scenario is low-tier and harmless, I don't think it hurts anyone to have it play out.

I'm more inclined to support him than someone else.

Appointing a Prosecutor to drop the case immediately seems redundant to me; if that's going to happen, then the Court shouldn't have accepted the case in the first place. Why go through all that trouble to accept a case, appoint a prosecutor, then have the prosecutor drop said case? That sets a bad precedent. I believe all prosecutors should make SOME EFFORT (even if just a little bit,) to do their job, like they are HIRED TO DO. Otherwise, don't apply for prosecutor. In fact it's generally bad ethnics, imagine hiring a prosecutor in real life, who then drops the case at the start?

Defense lawyers in real life don't drop the case instantly just because their client is guilty or illiterate. Now, this is a NationStates Court, where Court cases are rarer and less consequential. So I'd just let this play out and set a precedent.

I support Vivanco. Good luck man with your studies in TNP Case Law.


Disclaimer: I'm only saying this out of my own legal curiosity, not because this benefits Pigeonstan in some way. (Ihese has already quit the region, so whether Pigeon wins or loses the case against Ihese, makes no difference to him-- but these are textbook perfect "what-if" scenarios for future judges, lawyers, prosecutors and attorneys alike. )

(I'm taking 3 law classes right now.)
 
Cretox State:
Why, exactly, do we need to legitimatize this circus?
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Because that is the responsibility the Regional Assembly took upon itself when it passed the AGORA Act.

Some of you seem to be confused. You are here to debate the merits of the appointed prosecutor. Not the merits of Pigeonstan's case.
Ihese:
Que sí, que vale. Que me quites la ciudadanía ya, que me da igual, que no pienso volver a TNP. Quedaos con la rata esta de mierda con alas. Ya os arrepentiréis de tener a gentuza como Pigeonstan, ya...
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Please post only in English in these halls. Individual words and phrases are permissible on occasion but further posts solely in another language will be split out of this topic as spam. Thank you.
 
St George:
Because that is the responsibility the Regional Assembly took upon itself when it passed the AGORA Act.

Some of you seem to be confused. You are here to debate the merits of the appointed prosecutor. Not the merits of Pigeonstan's case.

Please post only in English in these halls. Individual words and phrases are permissible on occasion but further posts solely in another language will be split out of this topic as spam. Thank you.
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imgur.com

imgur.com

Imgur: The magic of the Internet
imgur.com imgur.com
here is just some more evidence from 50 minutes ago
 
I don't see why we should block the appointment of a prosecutor for this case. The justices have done their part and decided that they will go forward with the case. I trust Vivanco and their abilities.
 
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