RP Administration

St George

St George

RolePlay Moderator
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Deputy Speaker
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Pronouns
He/Him, They/Them
RP_Convention_2.png

RP Administration
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Roleplay in TNP is currently governed by the RP Moderators, who make sure our rules are followed and appointed by the admins and supported by the RP Conclave, a body primarily tasked with deciding what is and isn't canon to the Eras RP setting. These two groups have an unenviable task of helping to run TNP RP.

What this topic will be about is how TNP RP is currently run, ideas for improvement and anything else you can think of - including subforum changes and seeing what we can do to ensure that both our forum and gameside RP communities are being run to the best possible standard. This will also be a topic whereby RMB RPers can suggest names for RMB RPs first official RP mods.
 
Or content to just chat in back channels without proposing solutions. >_>
 
With respect to the operation of the RP Conclave, it seems to me that it may be helpful (particularly to those who do not use discord) for there to be a clear place to bring disputes on the forum, which there doesn't appear to be at the moment. Presumably a pinned thread with a description of the kind of things that the Conclave deals with and a little form (in which a person might identify what RP/s the dispute arose in relation to/who the other people involved in the dispute are/what question they want an answer to/why they think the question should be answered in their favour).

I should note, I am aware of this thread which does some of what I suggest, but it doesn't make clear whether the disputes should be brought in that thread (presumably not as the only ruling in the compendium does not appear to have originated from a post in that thread) or elsewhere on the forum or in discord. It may be that altering that thread (and perhaps moving it to be in the same sub-forum as the compendium of rulings (or moving the compendium to be with it)) is the way to go.
 
Does there also exist a post of general guidelines and broad established canon?

We have certain questions here like the continent names, planet size, and potential rules or facts about our outer space an we already have certain things established like the name of our world, the map of our region, and guidelines for what makes certain claims realistic. Unless I've missed it, there exists no thread where the potential answers to the questions we resolve at this convention along with what we've established in conventions past can be referenced.

I think it would be very useful to have a pinned, locked thread in The Lounge that has the general details and rules of our world as established in cooperation with and by the RP Mod Team. It should have sections on the physical world (the name of our world Eras, the continent names, the names of the oceans and waterways if we establish that, etc.), sections on reasonable and realistic guidelines for countries (Realistic military sizes, realistic economies, etc.), any limitations we place on our roleplay (our stance on fantasy, technology, etc.) and anything else important we establish.

Not only could this thread serve as a good place to keep things organized for the mods, but it would be something that first-time TNPers could reference to get a good idea of how and what they can roleplay in TNP along with what their country can do and it would we be a resource that experienced TNPers could use as they add depth to their nations.

Format-wise, this could be a single locked thread with a post for each section, where the first post features a small intro and table of contents with quick links to each post.
 
That's definitely an idea we could look at, something the Conclave could be responsible for, along with Zyvet's idea.
 
As of now no thread exists and it's more of an informal method of inquiry on discord. However I am open to the idea to make it more open to the community
 
A few months ago (June), Forum Administration were approached by several roleplayers who expressed concerns that Madjack was spending more time putting out fires than actually being able to roleplay.

These concerns stemmed from a feud between RP Moderators Lord Lore and Sodium, with the number one complaint about Sodium being that he was derisive, mocking and downright inflammatory to people who he felt were beneath his time.

As RP Moderators are a moderation team, the lead RP moderator generally receives Admin scrutiny but until that point Admin had made no attempt to be involved with the subgroup itself, and that event changed that. I sought to gather information regarding what was happening and discovered that Madjack wasn't aware of any of the concerns raised prior to Admin being made aware of them. Following these concerns, I took a role on the server - and shortly joined by other members of the Admin staff - we added our eyes to the server to help where we could.

When contact was made with the RP Moderators after the concerns were raised, I said this to them: "Admin isn't here to stomp all over the shop, we're here to try and figure out what's going on, what we can do to help and reconcile any issues that may be cropping up in this part of the community before they get to the point where they go public, they get hot and they undermine confidence in the community - both RP and political. To achieve this, we need your cooperation. The reaction from several of your staff since this channel was created has been overwhelmingly positive to this, which suggests there was a need that was not being met, or there were concerns that weren't being addressed. Hopefully, together we can change that."

So consider my surprise when this topic is raised - the concerns made to Admin a few months ago would fit neatly under RP Administration - and it has been ignored.

Am I to understand it that these concerns are no longer issues?

One of the proposed solutions I received from a prominent roleplayer was that the RP Moderators and Conclave should be collapsed into one group led by the Minister of Culture and Delegate, something I resisted considering the reason the RP Moderators exist to begin with was to bring an impartial team of roleplayers free from political requirements to be creative without constraint or desire of using the role as a means to aspire to political office.

In short the following concerns were brought to admin:

1. Sodium has a temperament ill-suited to moderating positions due to their attitude to people they feel aren't worth their time and frequently pulls rank to end disagreements that should be solved with civil discussion.
2. Private fighting regularly spills over to public channels and there are concerns some members of the RP Moderators are too busy trying to score points against the others in an private power struggle.
3. The Conclave is ineffective as it lacks any defined standing and is frequently overshadowed by the more visible Moderator team or is biased against certain types of RPer (Raven note: I have not found any evidence of this)
4. The RP community resents "outside" (non-RP) presence of people from other parts of TNP, furthering an "us and them" mentality that has also been seen with their attitudes to the RMB Community who have attempted to engage off-site with behaviour from certain RP community members making integration harder between both factions.
5. Disagreements become people "ganging up" on others which makes debate near impossible for emotive topics and RP Moderators join the fray rather than remaining impartial.
6. Madjack is undermined by the partisan nature of some of the RP Moderators.

I've waited for some of the people who came to Admin or shared these concerns to come forward, none of you have so I've decided to do it myself. Avoiding talking about the issues you're having with others in a manner conductive to resolving them seems to be the name of the game recently (as I discovered when I joined voice chat on that server a little while ago and heard things in reference to me that I could have done without hearing).
 
First off, Feathers, thanks for the post.

I'll do my best to keep things in order as you've brought them up in your own post.

As someone who's relatively new to TNP and NS in general, I haven't been exposed to 'how it was before'. Plemby was delegate when I joined, and I haven't really been involved in any of the upper-echelon executive duties that keep TNP running, so please keep that in mind.

Personally, I have never seen an instance where the RP Conclave or Moderators were needed to officially change or clarify a post or lore or anything of that variety. It probably happens, but I've never seen it happen on the Discord nor the forum. That being said, I understand the need for a tight-knit body to make those decisions to keep things coherent and sane. What I don't understand is the difference between a Moderator and a Conclave member. I cannot at a glance define their roles. Nor do I know of anywhere posted that clearly defines their roles. To me, they seem the same thing. I think it would be beneficial to have them integrated into one group or the other, for sake of clarity and cohesion of communication between mid-level RP mods. Again, I don't understand the whole 'career path' on the political side of TNP, and this is just my perspective from someone who casually roleplays.

1. I agree that something needs to be done about Sodium. I get it, his nickname and his avatar picture are supposed be allusions to 'being salty', but quite frankly the attitude he projects (or is perceived as projecting) does not suit that of someone in a position of leadership meant to guide and encourage healthy discussion and breaking-up of disagreements. Either higher-echelon needs to be okay with that attitude being projected in a position subordinate to them that they condone, or the person needs to be removed that position.

2. I personally have never seen any sort of vehement and blatant bashing. I've seen ribbing and taking-the-piss, but never outright cruel statements. That being said, I do regularly see Mods/Conclave members picking favorites. There is a clear bias. I get that some people are immature, or annoying, but - again - in that sort of position a person needs to have the fortitude and integrity to rise above personal feelings and settle things logically with how they relate to the lore and the world we've constructed and are continuing to build off of.

3. This topic was addressed in the above paragraph.

4. At the risk of falling into the very category I claim to not be a part of, I only see this with RMB Community members. I have seen nothing but welcoming and helping hands each and every time someone joins either the Discord server or the forum. There are a large amount of us who are eager and willing to help members who may be new to this type of roleplaying. What I do see, however, is new members joining with pre-conceived notions of how 'we' (the TNPRP Forum-goers) view the RMB Community members, which is followed very closely by a pessimistic, defeatist, and downright pissy attitude. Anecdotally, I am more than happy to interact with anyone who is pleasant and understanding, whether their of 'RMB origin' or otherwise. RMB is not my cup of tea, so I don't RP there. If a RMBer wants to try this side of the house out, then cool - we'll help you get started and answer any questions you may have. And if it turns out to be something you don't particularly enjoy, then that's fine. Nothing against you. The fact that this whole 'feud' even exists in the first place blows my goddamn mind. It's like starting a fight over whether you like vanilla or strawberry ice cream. Absurd.

5. Addressed in bullet #2, though in more a broad sense applied to everyone on TNPRP Forum. When I say 'annoying', everyone just thought of a handful of people that frequent the forum, didn't they? I do it, too. And it's easy to fall prey to the herd mentality and gang-up on a person who's shitty at RPing or who asks too many questions or this, that, and the other. RP Mods get caught up in it sometimes too. I mostly see this on the TNPRP Discord. It flat-out needs to stop for everyone. It's toxic and it's undermining the feel-good mentality that creativity and generally being nice to another fucking human being generates. Don't forget the person on the other side of the keyboard.

6. I'll be honest I have no idea what this means. I haven't seen this behavior personally, but maybe it happens behind the scenes or while I'm asleep. MJ is not afraid to use his administrator powers to mute, kick, or ban ne'er-do-wells who are stirring the pot - Mod/Conclave, or not. The other Administrators are similar. I think that's the way it should be. They are all amicable and easy to talk to, but draw a very clear line on what is and is not acceptable. I commend them for that. They all seem to be on the same page. It's unfortunate that MJ and the other Admins don't have the time to RP because of all the unnecessary duties they have to take up the slack for, but maybe that could be resolved by finding a solution to the lower-levels of administration and moderating that currently plague us.
 
To clarify what the Conclave does...

The Conclave is responsible for being the first level deciders of Eras canon and matters of realism. Though the moderators can also do this, they only do so on appeal when someone objects to a Conclave decision. The Conclave is basically a buffer to the moderators, being the ones to deal with matters of lore and realism rather than matters of administration. The moderators have the authoritative powers to adjudicate godmodding and metagaming incidents, deal with trolling, et cetera, and to ultimately ban someone from RP if necessary.

The relevant description on what the Conclave does can be found here: http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9048686/
 
To address earlier points in this thread:

I believe that Culture and to an extent the Delegate (if they so wish) should be involved in roleplay. That was certainly the intent when the Ministry was created in 2015 and our RP community was struggling. Now that it is thriving, we can find new ways for Culture to work for the betterment of our RP community. Some of these policies are already in place (i.e. helping with this, other ideas TBA). I would like to see the Executive Government (In particular the Ministry of Culture), the Lead RP Moderator, and the Conclave to work more closely together in these areas.

This is not the same as interfering in moderation, or culture determining Map claims, directly settling disputes, or ordering the RP moderators about :P This is not in the interests of the Executive or of the RP community. It just wouldn't work. But there are key areas that Culture can oversee such as events, promoting recruitment/retention of RPers, awarding RP participation, etc, that make sense for us to be doing and to be handling directly. There is a difference between what moderation and Culture can and should be doing.

I almost didn't accept this position, because I had been put under the impression that it would not be possible for Culture to do what it is already doing now in RP.

To respond to points addressed to Raven as an administrator:

1. I've also heard complaints, but tbh Sodium has always been.. Sodium :P I believe he is a good roleplayer and a good cartographer, but I don't believe he was ready to be a moderator. He has improved on what he was like a year ago, but certainly there is a long way to go. I'm not sure if the saltiness is supposed to be funny, but it isn't. It can come off as belligerent, unnecessary and ultimatelywill discourage people from participating or seeking assistance from moderation. Moderation/admin may be a frustrating job, but it's important that we treat every player with respect and not resort to pulling rank or being belligerent to people we feel aren't worth our time. We had an administrator who acted this way towards people and he is gone now. No matter how frustrating or insignificant you may think the issue is, you need to handle it respectfully and with tact.

2. I've not seen this, but I haven't been back too long. As an administrator, I would think that the roleplay moderators should take the same approach as the administration team. No public undermining, no public criticism of decisions taken, and no political point scoring for moderation decisions. Keep your disagreements civil and between moderators behind closed doors. To draw these issues out into the public sphere under Anyone that does not fall in line should be dismissed. They are after all, moderators, and they should act like it, or again, be removed. This is taken for granted by Admins and on the rare occasions it has slipped out, it has been nipped in the bud.

3. I am unsure on this point as I've had no exposure to the Conclave. Perhaps it would be clearer if moderation focused on moderation i.e. warnings, the map, keeping this on-topic etc, and conclave focused on the political side.

4. When I suggested that we promote RP activities gameside, I was immediately met with hostility by some players (Note: none of them were RP moderators). I reminded the player that when they first joined TNP, they were not the best of RPers and this helped to change their mind a little bit. We need to be as open as possible to having in-game nations join our RP community, it is the only way for it to continue to grow and to sustain itself when players inevitably get busy.

5. Not sure on this one.

6. I think madjack has done a phenomenal job as Senior RP moderator and as our cartographer. If others are undermining his ability to do his job, then he should not be afraid (and I am sure he isn't) of asking admin to remove the RP moderator in question and to appoint a new one. RP moderator is not a position for life. As I said in point 1, perhaps there needs to be the administration type approach to RP moderator decisions and any who don't fall in line should be dismissed.
 
With regards to the RMB, last week and the week before I finally managed to sit down and have talks with leading RMB players and we've come to something of an agreement - some of those players are active in the RP discord and gradually walls between the two communities are breaking down in some cases. This is a good thing.

Going forwards, one of the things I'd like to see coming out of this is the appointment of a Lead RMB RP Mod, with a role similar to mine, with the authority to appoint further RMB RP Mods and run that team without being micromanaged by government or admin. I have been lucky enough to be afforded that opportunity on the forum and I believe it would work on the RMB, especially if this person was given RMB post suppression powers (so by necessity it would need to be a Gameside Advocate, which it so happens are the people I was planning this to be anyway).
 
I want to point out that a lot of the hostility between TNP RP and RMB RP was because our first exposure to them as a group was with Malaya Singapora who did not give them a good name. There was also some confusion as to how the two groups would intermingle. I know there were some people who thought that the RMBers were going to get special treatment. They'd be allowed to continue using NS stats but would become part of Eras, thus upsetting the rules we've tried to build up for a more realistic and level playing field.

This was a misunderstanding about what was trying to be done, and I'm not sure where the fears initially came from. Perhaps a failure of communication somewhere. Now that we know that RMB and TNP RP is going to be separate but with inter-communication between our groups, most of us Erasians have been very supportive. And a lot of the RMBers have even become part of the lively chat on discord and I even hope to see some of them transfer over to Eras in the future.
 
St George:
With regards to the RMB, last week and the week before I finally managed to sit down and have talks with leading RMB players and we've come to something of an agreement - some of those players are active in the RP discord and gradually walls between the two communities are breaking down in some cases. This is a good thing.

Going forwards, one of the things I'd like to see coming out of this is the appointment of a Lead RMB RP Mod, with a role similar to mine, with the authority to appoint further RMB RP Mods and run that team without being micromanaged by government or admin. I have been lucky enough to be afforded that opportunity on the forum and I believe it would work on the RMB, especially if this person was given RMB post suppression powers (so by necessity it would need to be a Gameside Advocate, which it so happens are the people I was planning this to be anyway).
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To your point about appointing a lead RMB RP Mod, I think that the most obvious choice for this appointment would The Sanada Clan.

As it stands, she holds unanimous support from almost all current regulars in the RMB, both new and old.

Any decision she makes will be respected by a majority of the community whether that's imposing new guidelines on RMB RPing in general or supporting the idealization and manifestation of others.

In addition, I'd like to propose two other nations to this team:

Friently - My personal feelings aside, Friently has had a large impact on the RMB RP by first drafting up guidelines in pertinence to the declaration, the execution thereof, and thereabout proliferation of militaristic conflicts. Essentially, making them more fair and rule-bound. This also set near-clear guidelines on what was to be considered as godmodding and has deterred many making both the community more resilient and the community more friendlier towards newer nations.

Puczovska - Our sole cartographer of our RP map, respectfully, I would actually like for maybe Lord Lore or MadJack to reach out to him about helping w/ the standardization of claims on the RP, in addition to the maintenance of the map, both subject to what Puczovska feels would be best fit for the RMB RP community. The community respects him a lot even if sometimes, that support might seem either subliminal and or lacking.

I understand that this is just an opinion and that, although I might give suggestion and warrant, that the materialization of this team in this way may not happen.

My whole prerogative for the opinions and suggestions that I give are in the interests of the betterment of the RMB RP community. Anyone who would suggest otherwise does not know me well enough.

Thank you for listening.
 
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