Languages of Eras

SillyString:
Myroria:
Language isolate might work, though I always felt like it was a bit of a cop-out! :P OOC I'm fine with it being grouped with Indo-European languages but IC I don't really see how it could be related to the other nations in that grouping - that's the only thing I'm hesitant about.
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Yeah, it's definitely a cop-out in an RP setting. It can be IE in structure but different in sounds; phonetic morphs not only happen but are inevitable. Not usually to the extent of being unrecognizable, but certainly if another langauge is prominent in a region the phonology can change very rapidly.
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That's good enough for me. McMasterdonia controlled Myroria for a very long time in its empire, so I'll just say that the sound changes are due to influence from Kianese. They're not particularly close to Farsi, I don't think, but close enough to handwave it. I'll just include some more French influence on the sound system in the future.
 
SillyString:
Bootsie:
Okay, so, if I want to use Mercanti, I'm going to have to convert all of my other languages to other names. Any suggestions?
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Can you work out a history where Sadakhan dissidents immigrated to Guslantis? That's the only way a Japanese-derivative would make any kind of sense as a major language in your country. :P
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I am completely fine with that. It's possible, even probable, that dissidents would leave for a life not so focused about the time the colony was forming into a nation (say, early 1900s-ish, I'm flexible), and so the dialect that would become Kagaku could evolve into something closer to Earth Japanese.
 
True Sebland:
The Seblandish are bilingual. They speak English Mercanti and Seblandish. Both languages are taught in schools.
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Don't worry. You didn't miss that much. :lol:
 
True Sebland:
The Seblandish are bilingual. They speak English and Seblandish. Both languages are taught in schools.
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What kind of language is Seblandish?

Yrkidding: Yep, that's definitely possible. Bootsie has claimed Archlancerian as one of their official languages, and others have ones based on it or related languages, but there's no problem with it developing from Kianese there and then spreading.
 
Lots of nations here teach their students English as a second language. It should have probably been made from a vast empire that spoke english and spread it around.
 
Arux:
Lots of nations here teach their students English as a second language. It should have probably been made from a vast empire that spoke english and spread it around.
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Yes very likely. I wonder who.
 
Last I checked Mercanti was spread by traders as a lingua franca and eventually became its own thing. But even so it should have originated somewhere.

If I had to say one place where it'd originate, I'd probably say...hmm...perhaps Kannex? Perhaps in the region there was one proto-german language and it split into something more English-y and something more German-y. Those who stayed in Kannex coulda used German and those who moved around and traded coulda used what would eventually become Mercanti.
 
I hate to quote myself from earlier posts but:

Me in my infinite wisdom:
McM, TGR, and I have done some brainstorming, and decided that IRL English (we haven't decided on an IC name yet) was one of the major trading languages of the McMasterdonian (or Kianese) empire.

It's not that we just decided to hijack English, but we based it on a few realistic facts:

The McMasterdonian empire was the largest in the world, just like the RL British Empire, that could explain its worldwide use.

Trading between IA, which spoke Latin, and McMasterdonia, which spoke a sort of Farsi, could in fact lead to a trading language much like English. It would become the international language of trade, and thereby diplomacy. This offers a convenient IC reason why all our statements are in English.

Therefore, the ubiquity of the language in trade could lead to it becoming one of the most-spoken languages on Eras.
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It originated via trade between the Imperium Augustum and the Kianese Empire.
 
So while English did eventually make its way to the Confederation, the term Mercanti never did. Citizens of Kalti call it Ar Fud An Domhain (Domhain for short), citizens of Tir na Andalucia call it O'r Byd and citizens of Callaici call it Mundi.

In all three nations, English is referred to as 'The Common Language'
- Kalti: An Teanga Coitianta
- Tir na Andalucia: Yr Iaith Gyffredin
- Callaici: Lingua Communis
 
Syrixia:
Last I checked Mercanti was spread by traders as a lingua franca and eventually became its own thing. But even so it should have originated somewhere.

If I had to say one place where it'd originate, I'd probably say...hmm...perhaps Kannex? Perhaps in the region there was one proto-german language and it split into something more English-y and something more German-y. Those who stayed in Kannex coulda used German and those who moved around and traded coulda used what would eventually become Mercanti.
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That wouldn't work; Kannex was founded as a colony of German-speaking settlers -- who came from somewhere. The point is, German didn't originate in Kannex.
 
Kannex:
Syrixia:
Last I checked Mercanti was spread by traders as a lingua franca and eventually became its own thing. But even so it should have originated somewhere.

If I had to say one place where it'd originate, I'd probably say...hmm...perhaps Kannex? Perhaps in the region there was one proto-german language and it split into something more English-y and something more German-y. Those who stayed in Kannex coulda used German and those who moved around and traded coulda used what would eventually become Mercanti.
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That wouldn't work; Kannex was founded as a colony of German-speaking settlers -- who came from somewhere. The point is, German didn't originate in Kannex.
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We established where Mercanti came from- trade between the IA and the Kianese- but in that case where did German come from?

OMG IDEA. RHUVANLAND. It would be a US situation. Colony breaks off and becomes better than colonizer.
 
Syrixia:
Kannex:
Syrixia:
Last I checked Mercanti was spread by traders as a lingua franca and eventually became its own thing. But even so it should have originated somewhere.

If I had to say one place where it'd originate, I'd probably say...hmm...perhaps Kannex? Perhaps in the region there was one proto-german language and it split into something more English-y and something more German-y. Those who stayed in Kannex coulda used German and those who moved around and traded coulda used what would eventually become Mercanti.
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That wouldn't work; Kannex was founded as a colony of German-speaking settlers -- who came from somewhere. The point is, German didn't originate in Kannex.
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We established where Mercanti came from- trade between the IA and the Kianese- but in that case where did German come from?

OMG IDEA. RHUVANLAND. It would be a US situation. Colony breaks off and becomes better than colonizer.
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No. I vigorously oppose.

It makes no sense; Rhuvanland is weak and relatively culture-less. McM has RP'd for a while and he's established relations with his neighbors. And he wants to take on English/Mercanti -- which I and most others don't see a problem with.

I don't see any need to specify where German is from. I wrote in my national history that Kannexan settlers came from "Teutonland."
 
I'm in the same boat as Kannex, there is no precedent as to where Irish and Welsh (the languages of Kalti and Tir na Andalucia) came from. Nor do I see any reason at the moment on why I should elaborate on it, I can leave a historical footnote in my nations historical timeline and that's that.
 
You can change Teutonland. Don't be fickle. Rhuvanland is not a strong nation, true, but they are not cultureless. I just haven't delved into it yet.

Anyway, here's an idea. Why not claim a spot on the map, call it Teutonland, and RP it? Perhaps they'd be like the US and UK and be friends, or perhaps they'd hate each other.
 
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.

Btw, Syrixia, I thought of a scenario that might make sense for your language - perhaps, long long ago, people in the area now known as Syrixia spoke a large number of local languages, some similar and others very different. Modern Syrixian became the national language because, as it was unifying and becoming an empire, the elites/ruling family/whatever came from the small village that spoke that language, and not any of the other small villages that spoke other languages. This would explain SR's Vietnamese-based tongue - it simply didn't unify, and kept the original local language. This is very similar to RL India, which contained a huge number of small languages of which several but not all still remain alive today, but where the official national language is Hindi.
 
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.

Btw, Syrixia, I thought of a scenario that might make sense for your language - perhaps, long long ago, people in the area now known as Syrixia spoke a large number of local languages, some similar and others very different. Modern Syrixian became the national language because, as it was unifying and becoming an empire, the elites/ruling family/whatever came from the small village that spoke that language, and not any of the other small villages that spoke other languages. This would explain SR's Vietnamese-based tongue - it simply didn't unify, and kept the original local language. This is very similar to RL India, which contained a huge number of small languages of which several but not all still remain alive today, but where the official national language is Hindi.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
 
Kannex:
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
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So you've said, but that's neither informative nor relevant.
 
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
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So you've said, but that's neither informative nor relevant.
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There is no "Kannexian."
 
Kannex:
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
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So you've said, but that's neither informative nor relevant.
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There is no "Kannexian."
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Sure there is, it's the language spoken in Kannex. :P

But I repeat that your complaint is neither informative (we know what you've said, though your native name would be Deutsch, not German) nor relevant. It doesn't matter, and has no bearing on my earlier statement. Feel free to replace "Kannexian" with "any language ever" if that's easier for you to read. :)
 
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
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So you've said, but that's neither informative nor relevant.
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There is no "Kannexian."
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Sure there is, it's the language spoken in Kannex. :P

But I repeat that your complaint is neither informative (we know what you've said, though your native name would be Deutsch, not German) nor relevant. It doesn't matter, and has no bearing on my earlier statement. Feel free to replace "Kannexian" with "any language ever" if that's easier for you to read. :)
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Sorry, I didn't understand that; I only speak New-York American.
 
Kannex:
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
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So you've said, but that's neither informative nor relevant.
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There is no "Kannexian."
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Sure there is, it's the language spoken in Kannex. :P

But I repeat that your complaint is neither informative (we know what you've said, though your native name would be Deutsch, not German) nor relevant. It doesn't matter, and has no bearing on my earlier statement. Feel free to replace "Kannexian" with "any language ever" if that's easier for you to read. :)
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Sorry, I didn't understand that; I only speak New-York American.
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I think what SS is saying is that German could be called "Kannexian", similar to how other people are naming a language exclusively used in their country, after the country (Hiskjriaanan is icelandic, Xentheridan is Swedish, Syrixian is Hindi, etc.), instead of coming up with a reason to call it German.
 
Xentherida:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Kannex:
SillyString:
Meh. Languages evolve - Kannexian could be a local dialect of a pre-existing language, or a new language in and of itself. The distinction between the two is blurry anyway IRL, based largely on political grounds and not linguistic ones.
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Kannex speaks German.
Pelhafor speaks German and French.
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So you've said, but that's neither informative nor relevant.
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There is no "Kannexian."
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Sure there is, it's the language spoken in Kannex. :P

But I repeat that your complaint is neither informative (we know what you've said, though your native name would be Deutsch, not German) nor relevant. It doesn't matter, and has no bearing on my earlier statement. Feel free to replace "Kannexian" with "any language ever" if that's easier for you to read. :)
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Sorry, I didn't understand that; I only speak New-York American.
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I think what SS is saying is that German could be called "Kannexian", similar to how other people are naming a language exclusively used in their country, after the country (Hiskjriaanan is icelandic, Xentheridan is Swedish, Syrixian is Hindi, etc.), instead of coming up with a reason to call it German.
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I thought the demonym was Kannexan.

Anyway, Rhuvanland speaks German too; so that's not really fair to them. Perhaps Rhuvanland and Kannex were both colonies of this mysterious "Teutonland" that Kannex has mentioned a few times sometime during their history?

And moreover, where is Teutonland today? If Eras is the planet we're on Teutonland must be somewhere on it.
 
Teutonland could just be an older or alternate name for Kannex, like how Switzerland is known as Confoederatio Helvetica (in Latin - and the country code for Switzerland is CH) which dates back all the way to the Helvetii, a tribe who settled in the area after being defeated in battle by Julius Caesar).
 
Nierr:
Teutonland could just be an older or alternate name for Kannex, like how Switzerland is known as Confoederatio Helvetica (in Latin - and the country code for Switzerland is CH) which dates back all the way to the Helvetii, a tribe who settled in the area after being defeated in battle by Julius Caesar).
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Kannex is a 17th century colony of Teutonland, not Teutonland itself. Don't make me write a history stretching back to the Roman times, for God's sake.

Our planet is big enough, with mysterious known-unknown regions adjacent to ours, so it should not be difficult to say Teutonland is somewhere in that fog.
 
Kannex:
Don't make me write a history stretching back to the Roman times, for God's sake.
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Or, you could just make a map claim somewhere far away on the map and then for the history just say a bunch of Germanic tribes united under the Teuton tribe which expanded and made Teutonland. Simple.
 
Or I could do it. I'm itching to have actual connections and no one apparently wants to be the ancestors of a proud nation that I totally didn't make into a poop joke.
 
Syrixia:
Kannex:
Don't make me write a history stretching back to the Roman times, for God's sake.
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Or, you could just make a map claim somewhere far away on the map and then for the history just say a bunch of Germanic tribes united under the Teuton tribe which expanded and made Teutonland. Simple.
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I don't like making map claims willy-nilly. I don't plan on RPing anything about or with Teutonland at any rate.
 
Yeraennus:
Or I could do it. I'm itching to have actual connections and no one apparently wants to be the ancestors of a proud nation that I totally didn't make into a poop joke.
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:rofl:

I imagine if DD were to RP that he'd love to be the ancestor of a poop joke.

Kannex:
Syrixia:
Kannex:
Don't make me write a history stretching back to the Roman times, for God's sake.
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Or, you could just make a map claim somewhere far away on the map and then for the history just say a bunch of Germanic tribes united under the Teuton tribe which expanded and made Teutonland. Simple.
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I don't like making map claims willy-nilly. I don't plan on RPing anything about or with Teutonland at any rate.
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Yeah.. If you don't plan on RPing with it, I definitely do not see a point. I liked Nierr's suggestion that it could have been an ancient name for your nation. Does Teutonland feature into your national religion at all? I was thinking that alternatively it could be a type of biblical place, that has no exact position in the real world, but is assumed to have existed by virtue of the belief in the Church of Kannex. Food for thought :)
 
mcmasterdonia:
Yeraennus:
Or I could do it. I'm itching to have actual connections and no one apparently wants to be the ancestors of a proud nation that I totally didn't make into a poop joke.
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:rofl:

I imagine if DD were to RP that he'd love to be the ancestor of a poop joke.

Kannex:
Syrixia:
Kannex:
Don't make me write a history stretching back to the Roman times, for God's sake.
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Or, you could just make a map claim somewhere far away on the map and then for the history just say a bunch of Germanic tribes united under the Teuton tribe which expanded and made Teutonland. Simple.
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I don't like making map claims willy-nilly. I don't plan on RPing anything about or with Teutonland at any rate.
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Yeah.. If you don't plan on RPing with it, I definitely do not see a point. I liked Nierr's suggestion that it could have been an ancient name for your nation. Does Teutonland feature into your national religion at all? I was thinking that alternatively it could be a type of biblical place, that has no exact position in the real world, but is assumed to have existed by virtue of the belief in the Church of Kannex. Food for thought :)
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If you all insist that I cover my behind in terms of national origin and ancient history, I'll think of something. Kannex was settled in the Early Modern Age, so a "legendary origin" doesn't really make sense.

Teutonland doesn't really feature into the Kannexan religion, no. Herr Jesus Christus was, at any rate, not born there, but perhaps Herr Luther was. Not that it really matters when it comes to my God versus your God.
 
Syrixia:
Anyway, Rhuvanland speaks German too; so that's not really fair to them. Perhaps Rhuvanland and Kannex were both colonies of this mysterious "Teutonland" that Kannex has mentioned a few times sometime during their history?
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The likelihood that Rhuvish and Kannexian are identical is quite small. As I said above, languages evolve over both time and distance - the only reason modern-day English remains so similar worldwide (and ignoring the differences between native english-speaking countries, which genuinely do exist though they don't prevent one from getting around) is its use as a trade, business, and technology language - it is so dominant, and such distant places connected so immediately by the internet or phone, that its evolution happens largely on a worldwide basis without isolated spots that can develop on their own. Other languages can benefit from the connectivity of the modern era, but English is the one that really takes hold.

As I said above, whether something is considered a "dialect" or a "language" is largely made on political bases, not truly linguistic ones. Dutch and German are considered separate languages, even though their countries are adjacent and even though a native speaker of one can sort of get around in the other given the extreme similarity in grammar and vocabulary - there are political reasons to want to consider them individual languages and not dialects of one another. Inversely, Iraqi Arabic and Moroccan Arabic speakers will be mutually unintelligible to one another, and will need either a translator or another way to communicate - and yet these Arabics, and all in between, are considered one language! Again, the reason for this is political and goes hand in hand with the Pan-Arabism movement.

Ultimately, it doesn't (shouldn't) matter how similar or how different Rhuvish and Kannexian are - it's politics that should go into determining names. If Kannex wants to annex Rhuvanland, they can call the whole thing Kannexian. If Rhuvanland realllllly doesn't want to be annexed, it should call its own language Rhuvish. If they want to consider themselves as both deriving from an earlier empire, either as former colonies or breakaway settlements, they can work together on what name to use - if doing so makes sense, because once again, it's basically impossible that the two actually speak the same thing anymore. That's not how languages work.
 
Yeraennus:
Or I could do it. I'm itching to have actual connections and no one apparently wants to be the ancestors of a proud nation that I totally didn't make into a poop joke.
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There needs to be a white flag with a brown stripe down the middle.
 
The dialects of Rhuvish and Kannexan German won't be identical, no, but they can be very similar. The differences between the Canadian, Australian, and various American dialects have never caused them to be considered different languages, despite political differences -- and French spoken in Francophone Africa is still French. I don't see why Rhuvish German shouldn't be considered German, Syrixia's lackluster imitation of German notwithstanding.
 
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