Admin Team Changes

Explanation of changes to the admin team.

Until recently we have had seven people in the Administrator group, but only two or three were active in day-to-day admin tasks – and some admins have not pulled their weight in such tasks for years.

On September 19th the active administrators suggested that Grosseschnauzer and Punk Daddy move to the Administrator Emeritus group until their activity level picked up, so that the size of the admin group accurately reflects activity, and perhaps to pave the way for new admins to be appointed without bloating the group unnecessarily. In the past, other admins have accepted this option with equanimity – many of us have been remasked when our activity levels dropped.

PunkD accepted this, but gave assurance that his activity level would pick up. We are happy to report that Punk Daddy has been active since this, so there was no need to remask him.

Grosseschnauzer, however, reacted very angrily to this suggestion, suggesting that it would be a hostile action against his person, tantamount to a “coup.” Nonetheless, the decision was made to move him to the Emeritus group.

In response to this Grosse gave the other admins an ultimatum: he expected to be returned to full administrator status by the end of September.

On 3rd October, Grosse unilaterally used the Root admin account to return himself to the Administrator group. The agreement of the other admins was neither sought nor given. Grosse suggested that he was now in a position to undertake some of the routine administration tasks. Because of this assurance, the other admins waited a week, stepping back to give Grosse plenty of time and opportunity to fulfil his undertaking. Since this point he did a few member remaskings on 8th October, but has shown no sign of resuming the sort of activity that we need from an administrator.

Therefore the admin team have decided to re-mask Grosseschnauzer once again, and to lock him out of the Root admin account as a security measure and to prevent him reversing this decision. We simply have no confidence that he has any intention of becoming a productive member of the admin team.

Further to this, we have reached the conclusion that our relationship with Grosse has broken down to the point where there is nothing to be gained from him staying on as Admin Emeritus. Grosse has faced difficulties, which he has shared openly. We understand, and the reason for the long, long delay in this action has been to allow him time and space to deal with these. But administration is a job, not a rank or title, and this action has been precipitated by Grosse’s attitude and actions. Quite simply, we cannot work with him any longer.



McMasterdonia, Flemingovia, Eluvatar, and Democratic Donkeys.

I can't wait to see Flemingovia's reaction to this. Atleast the non-serious, celebratory version.

This is a great victory for the Flemingovian faith against the forces of Constitution.

( )

Flemingovia signed this letter, I do not think it is likely that he will post a celebratory hymn and this is completely unrelated to any IC matter that involves the passing of laws or any of Flem's IC proposals/thoughts on the constitution.

It was unfortunate that it had to come to this, but as the statement reads we felt that this was the best path forward.

I know. I was joking.

In all seriousness, though, I saw this coming. In various security council proposals, for example, Grosse tended to be very strict and grumpy and often voted nay. Kind of like an 80-year old Tea Party member.

I knew eventually something was going to happen to him when he took his mood and crossed the line.

It is unfortunate that it had to come to this, but I can't say I'm entirely surprised. I am glad that the remainder of the admin team was able to come together to address such an unfortunate situation, and I hope it does not disrupt our community too much.

Farewell, Grosse - thanks for your years of service.

this decision is not an occasion for satire or silliness. There will be none of that from me here.

Thank you for your service, Grosse.

I trust the team's decision on matters such as this and thank Grosseschnauzer for his long and dedicated service to the region of The North Pacific!

I'd like to state that we created Admin Emeritus for times when people are not able to be as active in helping with admin duties. It was never meant to be a "demotion" of sorts or an insult, but to clearly define who is and who is not performing the day-to-day admin functions.

This board has quite voluminous amounts of work to maintain it's proper functioning and I will admit over the past several months I did not pull my weight. That's not an opinion but a fact. I understand why but that's not important. What is important as stated in Eluvatar's OP is that being an admin is not some special rank or title that doesn't require work. I believe that on one of Eluvatar's walkabouts we've placed him in Emeritus status and have put him back to full admin status when he has returned.

Grosse's reaction to the suggestion was a bit defensive. Grosse has gone through a lot and I'd be remiss to not say that he has performed over 3,500+ admin actions on this board over the past ten years. I did not sign the change, but I believe I told McM and others that I wouldn't block it either. I'm saddened to see Grosse gone from the team as I believe he has been a large part of this community and certainly in the running of the forum.

What I'm about to say is cowardly and I admit to it, but I don't know if I would have had the courage to remove Grosse because I'm a sentimental idiot. But if I remove all of that and look at the situation objectively, I can understand why my fellow admin felt the need to make this move.

For my own part, I plan to return to a much more active admin. The yeoman's work of being an admin is definitely within the CitApp thread but it's also a very critical aspect to keep the board moving and the noobies engaged. I had hoped the rest of the board would be spared some of the internal friction that has gone on within the team, but I am very, very encouraged that the remaining admin all have solid intrarelations and we all want the same thing. That's what has made the TNP admin team strong for so many years and what I hope will continue to make us strong.

And with that, those are my two dollars on the topic.

How disrepectful.

At least given me a designation of Root Admin Emritus with no admin access. If you respect my service you can do that much.

Otherwise, I am resigning from all relationships with The North Pacific and with Nationstates.

You had no right to do remove me from access to the Root Admin account.

I would remind youu publicly that you stated that I should use the root admin account to change my designation from Admin Emiritus back the Admin, when I was ready. I first asked that you do so by September 30th, and you all failed to do so, and you lied. I had to remask myself.

This is a coup d'ete. flem must be very, very happy.

I shall leave The North Pacific and Nationstates. You y;all can go to Haes and remain there until it is over. If you come to your senses, and showo some respect to me, and a decade of service, you know how to reach me by email.

Otherwise, good bye and good riddance.

Grosseschnauzer:

How disrespectful.

At least given me a designation of Root Admin Emeritus with no admin access. If you respect my service you can do that much.

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This was a difficult decision to make. Between 2009 and 2011, you were functionally the forum administrator for months at a time, and did the region a great service in keeping this forum running. I absolutely respect that.

We do not currently have the particular sort of group you describe, and that option was not considered. We can consider it.

If I may say something, please. I do not necessarily like how the Administration team dealt with this. Why was the public not consulted? I know that Administrators are not government officials, and that they don’t answer to anyone, but it would have been nice if they were to consider what the rest of the citizenry thinks. I’m not necessarily fond of having 4 individuals make big decisions like this. Now, there is no doubt that these 4 individuals are some of TNP’s best and most dedicated citizens, but still, it would have been better if they were to consult the public. Second of all, is it really necessary to take away Grosse’s powers completely? Couldn’t you just lock him out of the root account and give him the Emeritus status/mask/badge? I think that would have been more appropriate given the current situation. We might not all agree with Grosse’s beliefs, I don’t for one. But I think that his long service to TNP, and the administration’s department in particular, should have been met with more understanding. He’s definitely more active than many of the Administrator Emeritus individuals (Ator People, FEC, GBM.)

I call for the Administration Team to give the Emeritus status back to Grosse. Given his long service to TNP, I don’t think it was fair for him to be treated that way.

Thank you,

~ Tomb

The Democratic Republic of Tomb:

If I may say something, please. I do not necessarily like how the Administration team dealt with this. Why was the public not consulted? I know that Administrators are not government officials, and that they don’t answer to anyone, but it would have been nice if they were to consider what the rest of the citizenry thinks. I’m not necessarily fond of having 4 individuals make big decisions like this. Now, there is no doubt that these 4 individuals are some of TNP’s best and most dedicated citizens, but still, it would have been better if they were to consult the public. Second of all, is it really necessary to take away Grosse’s powers completely? Couldn’t you just lock him out of the root account and give him the Emeritus status/mask/badge? I think that would have been more appropriate given the current situation. We might not all agree with Grosse’s beliefs, I don’t for one. But I think that his long service to TNP, and the administration’s department in particular, should have been met with more understanding. He’s definitely more active than many of the Administrator Emeritus individuals (Ator People, FEC, GBM.)

I call for the Administration Team to give the Emeritus status back to Grosse. Given his long service to TNP, I don’t think it was fair for him to be treated that way.

Thank you,

~ Tomb

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Thank you Tomb.

A public consultation as you have suggested would have likely involved a form of forum move. From the statement, you can see that the decision to lock Grosse out of the root account was not one taken lightly. This was done to prevent him reversing the changes, or worse, from locking others out or removing the active administrators. A public discourse on these sensitive matters well in advance of a decision being made (As in to remove an administrator) can put the board at risk of harm, that is a general rule and not necessarily specific to Grosse. At this point, we are willing to answer questions and discuss why we came to this decision - but ultimately it was a difficult call for us to make.

As to admin emeritus, that also entails involvement in admin discussions. Grosse has demonstrated by his attitude and behaviour towards other administrators that he was not willing to work with us in a respectful manner. Admin discussions were very difficult already without the unnecessary hostility and issues that would arise. Many of us also felt that it was not reasonable to have inactive admin(s) essentially preventing policy and team changes, without being prepared to take on tasks themselves.

I think it is unlikely Ator People will return to active admin duties, and would not necessarily oppose his demotion. As to Great Bights Mum - she has not done tasks for years, but has constructively contributed to admin discussions no matter how much I may disagree with her on those discussions.

FEC is a special case, she is one of the best admins of this board and has completed more tasks than both myself and Flemingovia. She has been hugely active in the past two years. Even with her absences for school/holidays she has more than carried her weight in admin responsibilities. I hope that she returns swiftly to admin duties.

I think it's important to add that Admin Emeritus is, from what I can tell, what was first tried in order to retain the rank and masking while more accurately reflecting active adminship. It would certainly have been premature to remove him from the team without first trying this step. But, I think, once Grosse unilaterally overruled the rest of the team to restore his full admin powers, Admin Emeritus doesn't seem like a good choice. That's the sort of action that can cause significant strife, even to the point of forcing a forum move - I've seen it happen in other regions. At this point, given what's happened, I'd be surprised if the team would be in favor of bringing him back on if he did decide to return to full activity, and that's the kind of thing that Admin Emeritus implies.

Okay, now Grosse is taking things a little bit too far. I bolded the craziest stuff.

Grosseschnauzer on the International Democratic Union Regional RMB:

We have returned.

After enduring two years of insults from a core group who have been seeking to remove all dissent and diverse opinion from its region and its forum, TNP is dead to me. So I have gone ahead and returned in my permanent retirement from there once and for all. So, as a former delegate several times over, and as a forum admin, what can I learn about all of you who have arrived or returned in my absence?

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He did, however, post this on the IDU forums:

Two years of insults? I think he dates the beginning of that period from his first conversation with me.

The admin team have agonized over this for weeks and weeks. I cannot speak for all of us, but let me give you some of my thinking.

There are two types of power in Nationstates. "Soft" power is the sort given by consent, via our laws and constitution. "Hard" power is that given by the game and board rules. very few people have hard power. Delegates and founders do, via the delegate controls; admins do via the Admin Control Panel.

Root admins have particular power in that, at any time, they can remove other admins and, potentially, lock all the other root admins out of the root account, taking total and complete control of the forum.

Why did we not open a public debate? Two main reasons were in my head.

The first was the longstanding tradition in TNP of not making forum administration a political football. Administration is not mentioned in any of our laws, our constitution or the bill of rights. Admins (when conducting their role) are supposed to be apolitical. To make decisions like this subject to a plebiscite would set an awful precedent.

But the more important reason was to mitigate risk. The moment a public debate was opened, there would be the risk that Grosse would prevent his removal by using the Root account to take sole control of the forum. Was this a real risk? He had already, on 4th October, accessed the root account to unilaterally return himself to Admin status; he had a;so threatened in the past to use the Root account against another administrator. I think it was a credible risk.

If we had opened a public debate, and that had happened, we would now be facing a forum move, and y'all would be screaming at us for being cavalier with forum security.

I understand the hurt to Grosse's feelings, especially as he put such store in the title of administrator. But forum security comes first.

I would also like to put the question of activity in some context. Forum administration in TNP is VERY hard work. It is not a position of honour, it is a job of work.

In 2015, all the active admins have been busy. Leaving aside the security and IP checks, which is the most onerous and dreaded of admin duties, the admins have done the following remaskings, forum changes etc (figures are for 2015 only):

Eluvatar 815 tasks
Flemingovia 236
Democratic Donkeys 378
McMasterdonia 387
Punk D 339

In this same period, Grosseschnauzer has done 17 such tasks, and has not involved himself in security checks at all (as near as I can see).

While a LOT of leeway has been given to Grossescnauzer, and plenty of time, there comes a point when the size of the admin team needs to reflect the activity of the admin team.

Forum administration is an OOC activity that is often thankless and under-appreciated by those of us that take advantage of the volunteer services people give.

As stated in the OP, it isn't a title, it isn't a right. If a person isn't able to contribute the time to doing the job then they shouldn't have the job.

I am sorry that Grosse feels differently.

Which is why we need to revive the Admin Appreciation Thread and give a Lennart to its OP. Because the admins damn sure deserve some appreciation, especially now.

I am saddened that it came to this, but... forum security comes first. I would have followed the same procedure here, for what it's worth.

I am sad to see that Grosse has resigned all positions and departed for another region.

Just to clarify my activity stats in Flem's post on the prior page. If I had 339 admin actions this year I am sure my activity levels would not be questioned.

I just did a rough check and my 2015 admin actions are around 50.

punk d:

Just to clarify my activity stats in Flem's post on the prior page. If I had 339 admin actions this year I am sure my activity levels would not be questioned.

I just did a rough check and my 2015 admin actions are around 50.

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Sorry. I misread the year number. PunkD is quite right.

Lord Ravenclaw:

I am saddened that it came to this, but... forum security comes first. I would have followed the same procedure here, for what it's worth.

I am sad to see that Grosse has resigned all positions and departed for another region.

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Happy trails Grosseschnauzer...

Grosse was a man who, while he had his differences with many of us, worked hard for TNP and helped bring TNP to what it is today.

*Sniff*

And now, if I may, I'd like to say goodbye to Grosse by singing the national anthem of the Schnauzervolken.

*breathes in*

Kinderlieb, Kinderlieb,
Du grüßt mich jeden Morgen,
Sehe ich dich,
Freue ich mich,
Und vergessen meine Sorgen.
Schmücke das Heimatland,
Schön und schwarz,
Blühest wie die Sterne.
Kinderlieb, Kinderlieb,
Ach, ich hab dich so gerne!

We are pleased to announce that Lord ravenclaw has joined the admin team.

More later when I am not on my phone.

Congratulations, Raven.

OMG YAY RAVEN!!!

As Flem has not gotten around to it yet, I don't think he will mind if I explain things a bit more. Lord Ravenclaw will be focusing on daily admin tasks and citizenship checks, once he is up to speed on our IP tools and things like that.

In addition to that the administration team has agreed to appoint r3naissanc3r as an Administrator of the North Pacific forum. R3n will be coming on for an exclusive focus on technical/coding aspects that will benefit the forum. He will not be doing the day to day tasks, we want to make that clear, as his time will be taken up with the technical matters that require attention.

With the recent departure of Grosse, the admin emeritus status of Former English Colony, with Democratic Donkeys possibly likely to follow, and with the various l.o.a coming up for admins we feel this is the right time to make these appointments that will cover us appropriately until well into the new year.

Another excellent decision on the Administration Team's part! I don't think that there's anyone out there more qualified to be an Administrator than R3n. Excellent pick, and congrats to r3n!

~ Tomb

Congrats to Raven!

Thank you, everyone!

Flemingovia, and team: I'll do my best not to disappoint.

Thanks for the appointment .

the Admin team is pleased to announce that Abbey has joined our ranks and is the newest Administrator.

She has promised not to break anything.

Welcome aboard, Abbey!

Due to real life taking its toll FEC, Punk and DD have slipped into the more comfortable chairs of the Emeritus mask until they are able to return to us and the fiery depths of hell beneath TNP.

Congratulations on the appointment, Abbey.

Yay Abbey!

Congratulations