Constitutional Amendment: Rename the Security Council

Johanness

Johanness

TNPer
Regular Article:

Article 6. The Security Council:
1. Any person who meets any endorsement and influence requirements determined by law may apply to become a member of the Security Council.
2. Once an application has been submitted, the Security Council may nominate that applicant by a majority vote. The Regional Assembly may confirm a nominated applicant by a majority vote. If the Security Council does not nominate an applicant or does not act on them within thirty days, the Regional Assembly may appoint the applicant by a two-thirds majority vote.
3. Nominations remain in effect until revoked by majority vote of the Security Council.
4. The Security Council will monitor the region’s security and report on it to the public, and enforce decisions of the Regional Assembly to remove the Delegate.
5. The Regional Assembly may establish a line of succession by a majority vote. The line of succession must always include the Vice Delegate and all current Security Council members, and must always place the Vice Delegate first. If a new member is admitted to the Security Council, they will be automatically added at the end of the current line of succession. If a member is removed from the Security Council, they will be automatically removed from the line of succession.
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With some neat Amending...

Article 6. The Senate:
1. Any person who meets any endorsement and influence requirements determined by law may apply to become a member of the Security Council Senator.
2. Once an application has been submitted, the Security Council Senate may nominate that applicant by a majority vote. The Regional Assembly may confirm a nominated applicant by a majority vote. If the Security Council Senate does not nominate an applicant or does not act on them within thirty days, the Regional Assembly may appoint the applicant by a two-thirds majority vote.
3. Nominations remain in effect until revoked by majority vote of the Security Council Senate.
4. The Security Council Senators will monitor the region’s security and report on it to the public, and enforce decisions of the Regional Assembly to remove the Delegate.
5. The Regional Assembly may establish a line of succession by a majority vote. The line of succession must always include the Vice Delegate and all current Security Council members Senators, and must always place the Vice Delegate first. If a new member is admitted to the Security Council Senate, they will be automatically added at the end of the current line of succession. If a member is removed from the Security Council Senate, they will be automatically removed from the line of succession.
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Boom. The Senate sounds much better then the Security Council.
 
Arux:
Boom. The Senate sounds much better then the Security Council.
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No it doesn't. The Security Council is not a legislative body. It is a Council for Security. Hence, Security Council.
 
The Security Council is The Security Council. It is not a legislative or law-making body.
 
That is because TWP's Guardians are Guardians of the region in more aspects than in-game.
 
There is nothing wrong with the Security Council. Senates make laws. The SC does not make laws. Therefore this proposal is purely aesthetic, and as it doesn't even make sense aesthetically, is utterly useless.

I suggest you read up on what senates do versus what the SC does before you randomly propose nonsensical laws.
 
Security Council is not only more appropriate, but also sounds more awesome. If something like this made it to a vote I'd vote against.
 
While Senate is not a good replacement name, renaming the SC isn't that bad an idea. The main reason is to avoid confusion with the World Assembly's SC.
 
Lennart:
Security Council is not only more appropriate, but also sounds more awesome. If something like this made it to a vote I'd vote against.
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Security Council does sound good!

r3naissanc3r:
While Senate is not a good replacement name, renaming the SC isn't that bad an idea. The main reason is to avoid confusion with the World Assembly's SC.
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I'm not against renaming it as well, but it'd need a damned good reason, more than what you listed!

Overall, this is dumb Sytarenne.
 
First of all, as one of those who helped developed Tresville's original idea years ago, the Security Council has always been about securing the region and the elected Delegate process we have in TNP.

As other have already noted, it is not a legislative body, nor is it a house of Lords or other selected body that plays a role in lawmaking. Nor does it advise the head of state or government on any government issue.

And finally the TNP Security Council predates the WA Security Council; perhaps they need to change their name. :) >|P
 
Grosseschnauzer:
And finally the TNP Security Council predates the WA Security Council; perhaps they need to change their name. :) >|P
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Maybe we should send them a cease-and-desist letter and see what happens. It worked for the RL UN, so it ought to work for us as well, amirite?
 
I don't really think a name change is necessary. I've seen people refer to the high-endo WA nations in other GCRs generically as a "security council", so I think that's a good indication of how appropriate the name is.
 
I might not appreciate the aesthetics, but I have always appreciated the sentiment behind TNP eschewing titles. Our delegate is the delegate, not the president or the prime minister or the emperor; our legislature is simply the regional assembly (though blander still it could be "the legislature"), not a senate or a parliament or what have you. Our AG is just an AG, our judges are judges, and our SC is the SC. They are more descriptors than true titles.
 
SillyString:
I might not appreciate the aesthetics, but I have always appreciated the sentiment behind TNP eschewing titles. Our delegate is the delegate, not the president or the prime minister or the emperor; our legislature is simply the regional assembly (though blander still it could be "the legislature"), not a senate or a parliament or what have you. Our AG is just an AG, our judges are judges, and our SC is the SC. They are more descriptors than true titles.
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:agree:
 
SillyString:
I might not appreciate the aesthetics, but I have always appreciated the sentiment behind TNP eschewing titles. Our delegate is the delegate, not the president or the prime minister or the emperor; our legislature is simply the regional assembly (though blander still it could be "the legislature"), not a senate or a parliament or what have you. Our AG is just an AG, our judges are judges, and our SC is the SC. They are more descriptors than true titles.
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I agree with this. When you get into the business of coming up with fancy names and titles, you end up with people not knowing what certain institutions do. Think about, for example, the themed Sinkers. Balder uses somewhat obscure (though at least contemporary and real life-based) Nordic titles, Lazarus uses even more obscure Confucian titles (because nothing says a Jewish man raised from the dead in Christian scripture like Confucianism!), and Osiris uses by far the most obscure ancient Egyptian titles. How many people can, at first glance, easily understand what regional institutions do in those regions?

I know no one is proposing anything so obscure here, but my point is when you move beyond basic descriptors you make it more difficult for players -- particularly new players, and that's the primary base from which our population derives -- to understand what's going on. It's easy to understand names and titles like Delegate, Vice Delegate, Cabinet, Minister, Regional Assembly, Speaker, Court, Justice, Attorney General, and Security Council.
 
I concur with the overwhelming consensus in this thread - while renaming the Security Council isn't necessarily a bad idea, it isn't really necessary.
 
SillyString:
I might not appreciate the aesthetics, but I have always appreciated the sentiment behind TNP eschewing titles. Our delegate is the delegate, not the president or the prime minister or the emperor; our legislature is simply the regional assembly (though blander still it could be "the legislature"), not a senate or a parliament or what have you. Our AG is just an AG, our judges are judges, and our SC is the SC. They are more descriptors than true titles.
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I have a question, why is the Attorney General more important then the Cabinet ?

Also, In my Opinion we would be more different then other regions if we used something other then the typical and standard government in NS. And yes I get it Senate is legislative.
 
Arux:
I have a question, why is the Attorney General more important then the Cabinet ?
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Who said they were?
Arux:
Also, In my Opinion we would be more different then other regions if we used something other then the typical and standard government in NS. And yes I get it Senate is legislative.
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Many regions use some sort of themed titles. I think it makes sense that The North Pacific, the greatest region, use the most prototypical descriptors for our offices. We don't need any gimmicks. We simply are.
 
Arux:
I have a question, why is the Attorney General more important then the Cabinet ?
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I have a question too. Why are ppl buying into this thread? Never mind. Not important. To answer your question.. (which Elu did), the AG has no more importance than any other elected office. The Cabinet is appointed. See if you can tell the difference.
 
plembobria:
Yes, TNPs names are much more intuitive.
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If we're in the business of naming things as they are, (delegate is the delegate, etc.), then why are some places on the forum named... not at all intuitively. A passing glance at "The Agora", and you'd have no idea what that place was. How about "TresVille"? "Hersfoldton"?
 
quak1234:
plembobria:
Yes, TNPs names are much more intuitive.
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If we're in the business of naming things as they are, (delegate is the delegate, etc.), then why are some places on the forum named... not at all intuitively. A passing glance at "The Agora", and you'd have no idea what that place was. How about "TresVille"? "Hersfoldton"?
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The Agora:
(in ancient Greece) a public open space used for assemblies and markets.

Tres and Hersfold were prominent, and historical members of this region. Hersfold is also the owner of this forum.
 
I'm not really interested in renaming any organization, tbh. Each of our internal organizations has a name that clearly reflects its purpose, like Asta said, and I think that's all we need. As for Arux's proposed amendment specifically, I see no benefit in changing the S.C.'s name to Senate, because the S.C. doesn't come close to having the functions of a "senate."

~ Tomb
 
Cormac:
SillyString:
I might not appreciate the aesthetics, but I have always appreciated the sentiment behind TNP eschewing titles. Our delegate is the delegate, not the president or the prime minister or the emperor; our legislature is simply the regional assembly (though blander still it could be "the legislature"), not a senate or a parliament or what have you. Our AG is just an AG, our judges are judges, and our SC is the SC. They are more descriptors than true titles.
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I agree with this. When you get into the business of coming up with fancy names and titles, you end up with people not knowing what certain institutions do. Think about, for example, the themed Sinkers. Balder uses somewhat obscure (though at least contemporary and real life-based) Nordic titles, Lazarus uses even more obscure Confucian titles (because nothing says a Jewish man raised from the dead in Christian scripture like Confucianism!), and Osiris uses by far the most obscure ancient Egyptian titles. How many people can, at first glance, easily understand what regional institutions do in those regions?

I know no one is proposing anything so obscure here, but my point is when you move beyond basic descriptors you make it more difficult for players -- particularly new players, and that's the primary base from which our population derives -- to understand what's going on. It's easy to understand names and titles like Delegate, Vice Delegate, Cabinet, Minister, Regional Assembly, Speaker, Court, Justice, Attorney General, and Security Council.
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I agree with these sentiments, especially with respect to helping newcomers (NS newbies or just outsiders) to the region familiarize themselves with our government structure. And that's exactly why I think renaming the SC is worth some consideration.

As I said earlier in this thread, the fact that the SC shares its name with another very prominent and international game institution can be confusing to newcomers. I speak from personal experience, as when I first visited TNP and looked into the government institutions, the name puzzled me a bit - and I was certainly not new to NS at that point.

The new name doesn't have to be a fancy title or anything. Heck, it doesn't even have to be all that different. Just change the "council" part: security board, security commission, security administration, security chamber.

It's hardly a critical issue, and it's definitely not something I am going to make a serious time investment towards myself. But if someone else wanted to tackle this, I would support the effort.
 
The Agora is a free speech area that's outside the governmnt. We couldn't call it "The Forum" (as it was known in Ancient Rome) for obvious reasons, so we went to the Ancient Greeks instead, and found that "agora" had essentially the same meaning and usage.

And it has the advantage of being short, easy to remember and minimised the conceit, just as everything else is in TNP.

And as to the Security Council, we were, as noted earlier, using it first. If confusion exists, then the young whippersnapper should change its name, not us.

(And really, in RL, many countries and multinational organizations have bodies that share the Security Council name with the United Nations and as far as I can tell, the RL UN hasn't sent any cease and desist letters out.
 
Not for changing the name to the Senate. I think SC fits well just like Guardians fit for TWP.

No need to change our names to fit names of other regions or to find something catchy. SC is pretty well recognized and we know their purpose.
 
Arux:
I get it, I don't know why people are still posting here.
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I imagine it's because it's an interesting topic and people have Deep Thoughts they want to add. I hope you don't take it as everyone piling on you, because I don't think that's what this is. You've sparked discussion! That's a good thing! :)

Elu: To be fair, the Cabinet has not always been intuitively named. :P[note]Council of Five is not the least sinister name in the world, you know...[/note] But no, I don't think the AG is more important than it in an absolute sense.
 
SillyString:
Elu: To be fair, the Cabinet has not always been intuitively named. :P
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The Cabinet is still also the Executive Council (unless one argues that certain officials are part of one but not the other).
 
I do agree with r3n that renaming the Security Council to something not identical to the WA's second chamber, something like Security Commission, might have some merit. Renaming it to something like "Senate" that doesn't clearly express its purpose is what I'm opposed to.
 
Democratic Donkeys:
Cormac:
mcmasterdonia:
I suggest we rename it to the "petting zoo" or "The Retirement Facility"
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It does currently contain both a schnauzer and a raven...
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...and a donkey??? :cry:
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And a lion... a bunny... Romanoffia... a lochness monster.... and a turtle soon to be admitted...

It used to have two penguins as well.

Gracius Maximus:
mcmasterdonia:
I suggest we rename it to the "petting zoo" or "The Retirement Facility"
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Either of these would get my vote.
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Glad to have your support :hug:
 
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