Historical Empire (Planning thread)

mcmasterdonia

mcmasterdonia

Just like a queef in the wind, so is life
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TNP Nation
McMasterdonia
This is a thread to discuss a proposed Empire that would have existed from approximately 800BC - the late 1700s.

My proposal is that this Empire would have began in McMasterdonia in 800BC, it would slowly expand and encompass a large number of nations. Each of these nations would have been governed by a King, or another appropriately titled ruler, who would swear fealty/loyalty to the Emperor. They would agree to provide the Imperial Legion with forces and to fill the Empire's coffers for further expansion into the Eastern world, and for war fare.

In the event of a rebellion, members of the Empire would rally together and crush that rebellion. Some members may be more troublesome than others. Naizerre has indicated that they would wish to be one such member.

Eventually members would be granted the right to leave the Empire. Some nations may wish to stay on as colonies of McMasterdonia before eventually becoming independent states. Some former colonies of McMasterdonia, such as Salvarity, Añola, and Archegnum will become independent separately, remaining members until the Empire ultimately collapses.

Members may included individual Kingdoms/Principalities/whatever that made up your nation prior to their unification under one government. Such is the case with McMasterdonia, Plembobria, and the Lancerian Empire.

Members who may apply:

Plembobria
The Lancerian Empire
Archegnum
Añola
Avalon
New Haven America
New Sekai
Lord Ravenclaw
Naizierre
Great Bights Mum
Esplandia

Members who have expressed interest/agreed to join:
McMasterdonia
Añola
Naizerre
Archegnum
New Haven America

Member states prior to 1200

Key:
Red: McMasterdonia
Blue: Añola
Green: Naizerre
Light Blue: Plembobria
Orange: New Haven America - Western/Southern NHA

The Kingdom of Intelligentsia
The Archbishopric State of Cape El
The Duchy of Capricornia
The Principality of Ceduna
The Earldom of Castello
The Kingdom of the Reach
The Principality of Granthem
The County of Colchester
The Kingdom of Karnamah
The Hold of Whitewater
The County of Caspius

The Kingdom of Clethelbend (est. 840s-850s)
The Kingdom of North Frithia (est. 940)
The Duchy of Glornia (est. 952)
The Grand Duchy of Pyrandia (est. 1021)
The Kingdom of Plinkenshire (est. 1042)
The Principality of Halbonia (est. 1054)


The Kingdom of Kurial(The west)
The Kingdom of Arinia(The south coast)

The Kingdom of Kita'muren, and Amerian <- Proclaimed members, but not really.

Member States post 1200
McMasterdonia (Established as a unified state in 1200)
Individual Kingdoms still having a say:
The Kingdom of Intelligentsia
The Archbishopric State of Cape El
The Duchy of Capricornia
The Principality of Ceduna
The Earldom of Castello
The Kingdom of the Reach
The Principality of Granthem
The County of Colchester
The Kingdom of Karnamah
The Hold of Whitewater
The County of Caspius

Añola
Naizerre
The Principality of Cherpis (est. 1222)
The Kingdom of Clethelbend (est. 840s-850s)
The Kingdom of North Frithia (est. 940)
The Duchy of Glornia (est. 952)
The Grand Duchy of Pyrandia (est. 1021)
The Kingdom of Plinkenshire (est. 1042)
The Principality of Halbonia (est. 1054)
The Kingdom of Kurial(The west)
The Kingdom of Arinia(The south coast)

The Kingdom of Kita'muren, and Amerian <- Proclaimed members, but not really.
 
If this "Empire" dares to challenge the great and almighty conquerors and sovereigns; the Maharajas of the Syrixian Empire, there will be blood. Or maybe trade. Or possible a world domination muahahaha alliance. It depends on who the Maharaja is. :3

Just puttin' that out there. :evil:

EDIT: Actually, an alliance wouldn't really be out of the question at all, considering a war would probably be suicide for both sides...
 
We had those marriages in our history, that may well have brought the two empires together. But a one nation Empire can't really compete with a huge Empire like this :P But I'm not really sure how many people will be genuinely interested yet.
 
You'd be surprised.

PS: The way you're proposing it, it seems more like an HRE type state.
 
The Syrixian Empire had a central government that was a cross between a stratocracy and a monarchy. The Emperor had total control of EVERYTHING, and his governmental subordinates had to obey his will.

I think a centralized empire with colonies would match the power of this superlarge HRE-type state.
 
The Emperor of this alliance would have near total control. I think it would come down to our much larger economic power and our access to resources. You have to accept second best sometimes Syrixia ;)

Also there was the Imperium's Empire and many others around this time. Going to war isn't the purpose of this Empire, it is to create a unique historical background for the relationships between our nations and some context for the political systems that have emerged.
 
Definitely interested. This sounds like a great idea.

So we discussed in PMs and stuff - should McMasterdonia still establish its first contact/trading posts in what will subsequently become Archegnum in the 1500s? I think that would give the Empire a good deal of time to evolve its governmental and political structure.

My basic idea so far is that the Archegnuman region has at various times been united under its own, native, Archipelegian Kingdom. Basically, aforementioned Archipelegain Kingdom rose, fell and divided, and rose again, several times before McMasterdonians arrived. This process occurred through different dynasties and noble houses. When the McMasterdonians do arrive, the (then divided) Archipelago is at a roughly Middle-Ages technology level, so not too far behind McMasterdonia. The McMasterdonians, however, simply become the latest dynasty to reunite the Archipelago, integrating it simultaneously into this loose, HRE-style Empire.

Think China (like the Warring-States and stuff).

This basically blends my desire for Archegnum to be an ancient, cultured nation (i.e. the pre-Empire days) but still have a colonial history (i.e. the McMasterdonian House of Iluvatar, that still rules over Archegnum today (though obviously independently)). It would also explain how native Archegnuman culture (which I envision to be some sort of blend of Medieval English, Byzantine Greek, and Japanese culture, though obviously none of those nations actually exist in the North Pacific) survived and thrived.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Also there was the Imperium's Empire and many others around this time.
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For future reference, the historic Empire that formed part of the Pax Latina (in particular, Imperium itself, Floresque, and what is now New Intelligensia and potentially Silly String) was known as the Caesarate from 1 AD (After Death, referring to the death of the then Imperator, Augustus Caesar, now Caesar Augustus Augustus) onwards, and the Latin Empire prior.

The Caesarate collapsed, forming the Latin city-states, in 493. The Latin League was formed in 754, and the Caesarean Restoration in 1177 recognized Caesar Augustus (Imperator of Alba Longa) as the Patriarch Latina - the religious leader of the Church of Paxus and the secular head of the League's coalition military. This was the Latin League that would later enter civil war and produce Imperium Augustum (and Alainn, and potentially Nierr and Floresque, and indirectly New Intelligensia).
 
mcmasterdonia:
The Emperor of this alliance would have near total control. I think it would come down to our much larger economic power and our access to resources. You have to accept second best sometimes Syrixia ;)

Also there was the Imperium's Empire and many others around this time. Going to war isn't the purpose of this Empire, it is to create a unique historical background for the relationships between our nations and some context for the political systems that have emerged.
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:cry: Okie...
 
The Kaltians had monarchical rule (either a tribal monarchy with elders or a pure true monarchy) from 990 B.C.E. to 656 C.E.. However, we are located on the complete other end of the map from you so I would only go so far as to say that there was the occasional trade by far flung explorers who ended up in territories owned or controlled by your empire.
 
Let me figure out what on earth my nation is even doing :P

Oh, I've asked Nierr to change my TNPRP nation from Lord Ravenclaw to Ravenscrown, which strikes me as wholly easier to handle. On the map the name will change with (Lord Ravenclaw) being added in brackets beneath it.
 
The idea is amazingly good, but I must refuse to take part in it, at least directly, since the history of Avalon, even if it's not very well defined in my factbooks and RPs has a twist, in the sense that the isle sank like Atlantis at some point during the 6th century AD and it re-emerged recently. I'm working in a "consistent" frame for this to happen, but it will probably be an isolate story

I'll keep an eye on this, anyway!
 
Yeah, Kalti and I are pretty far flung, and according to what I have written down somewhere, Yeraennus didn't even unify until 800 CE.
 
Interested.

Also, I don't have anything for NHA history pre-200 AD, so this seems like a rather cool idea. (Though, I think the eastern half of NHA should stay independent, with the west half being part of the empire)
 
Archegnum:
Definitely interested. This sounds like a great idea.

So we discussed in PMs and stuff - should McMasterdonia still establish its first contact/trading posts in what will subsequently become Archegnum in the 1500s? I think that would give the Empire a good deal of time to evolve its governmental and political structure.

My basic idea so far is that the Archegnuman region has at various times been united under its own, native, Archipelegian Kingdom. Basically, aforementioned Archipelegain Kingdom rose, fell and divided, and rose again, several times before McMasterdonians arrived. This process occurred through different dynasties and noble houses. When the McMasterdonians do arrive, the (then divided) Archipelago is at a roughly Middle-Ages technology level, so not too far behind McMasterdonia. The McMasterdonians, however, simply become the latest dynasty to reunite the Archipelago, integrating it simultaneously into this loose, HRE-style Empire.

Think China (like the Warring-States and stuff).

This basically blends my desire for Archegnum to be an ancient, cultured nation (i.e. the pre-Empire days) but still have a colonial history (i.e. the McMasterdonian House of Iluvatar, that still rules over Archegnum today (though obviously independently)). It would also explain how native Archegnuman culture (which I envision to be some sort of blend of Medieval English, Byzantine Greek, and Japanese culture, though obviously none of those nations actually exist in the North Pacific) survived and thrived.
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Kalti:
The Kaltians had monarchical rule (either a tribal monarchy with elders or a pure true monarchy) from 990 B.C.E. to 656 C.E.. However, we are located on the complete other end of the map from you so I would only go so far as to say that there was the occasional trade by far flung explorers who ended up in territories owned or controlled by your empire.
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Love your ideas. I'm wondering if 1500 is too late. Could we establish the trading colony a bit earlier, like in the year 1050? That way there is a much greater period of time for the assimilation that you mention, and then Archegnum would be a fully powerful state in it's own right by 1500.

Did you envision Archegnum being divided into smaller kingdoms or holds? These could become individual members of the Empire, and then unify later on as discussed.

Lord Ravenclaw:
Let me figure out what on earth my nation is even doing :P

Oh, I've asked Nierr to change my TNPRP nation from Lord Ravenclaw to Ravenscrown, which strikes me as wholly easier to handle. On the map the name will change with (Lord Ravenclaw) being added in brackets beneath it.
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Right, right. Well I added some stuff about McM-LR history in my history thread, based on our discussions where you said I could do anything xD

Let me know if you want any of that changed. But I think LR/McM's long standing history would make it a perfect fit for an empire.

New Haven:
Interested.

Also, I don't have anything for NHA history pre-200 AD, so this seems like a rather cool idea. (Though, I think the eastern half of NHA should stay independent, with the west half being part of the empire)
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That's cool. Well the Empire would start in the year 800 (approximately). Was NHA divided into small Kingdoms or was it always one large nation? Perhaps the Eastern Half could be proclaimed part of the Empire, but in reality, the Empire was never actually able to establish it's authority there. That could make for some interesting political backstories.
 
From what I'm thinking, Eastern NHA would be separated into 2 different nations(One a kingdom, one a proto-democracy), with the west half and southern coast of the east controlled by the empire(Think Rome's control over Africa's Mediterranean coast).

But I do think a proclaimed ownership would be an interesting idea.
 
I'm in. Member states:

The Kingdom of Clethelbend (est. 840s-850s)
The Kingdom of North Frithia (est. 940)
The Duchy of Glornia (est. 952)
The Grand Duchy of Pyrandia (est. 1021)
The Kingdom of Plinkenshire (est. 1042)
The Principality of Halbonia (est. 1054)
The Principality of Cherpis (est. 1066)


Before 1799 "Plembobria" is understood to be a geographical term. The Kingdom of Clethelbend a feudal society established by the Rethenites. I'd imagine they could be fleeing from some kind purge or inquisition or something from McMasterdonia. Accepting nominal control from McMasterdonia. This is consistent with them being "refugees or dissidents." Various members of the landed elite wanted to rule in their own right and this began the Warring States Period which ended with unification by the Libertey League, yadda, yadda.
 
New Haven:
From what I'm thinking, Eastern NHA would be separated into 2 different nations(One a kingdom, one a proto-democracy), with the west half and southern coast of the east controlled by the empire(Think Rome's control over Africa's Mediterranean coast).

But I do think a proclaimed ownership would be an interesting idea.
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Do you have names for each of those different parts?

OP updated.
 
mcmasterdonia:
New Haven:
From what I'm thinking, Eastern NHA would be separated into 2 different nations(One a kingdom, one a proto-democracy), with the west half and southern coast of the east controlled by the empire(Think Rome's control over Africa's Mediterranean coast).

But I do think a proclaimed ownership would be an interesting idea.
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Do you have names for each of those different parts?

OP updated.
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For the empire's area:

The Kingdom of Kurial(The west), and The Kingdom of Arinia(The south coast)

For the two eastern countries:

The Kingdom of Kita'muren, and Amerian
 
I need to ask, is Añola being thrown around as a gift or currently independent during the empire's height of power?
 
New Haven:
mcmasterdonia:
New Haven:
From what I'm thinking, Eastern NHA would be separated into 2 different nations(One a kingdom, one a proto-democracy), with the west half and southern coast of the east controlled by the empire(Think Rome's control over Africa's Mediterranean coast).

But I do think a proclaimed ownership would be an interesting idea.
Click to expand...
Do you have names for each of those different parts?

OP updated.
Click to expand...
For the empire's area:

The Kingdom of Kurial(The west), and The Kingdom of Arinia(The south coast)

For the two eastern countries:

The Kingdom of Kita'muren, and Amerian
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Coool. I'll add these to the OP.

Cronaal:
I need to ask, is Añola being thrown around as a gift or currently independent during the empire's height of power?
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At the height of imperial power, at the beginning, Anola will be granted as a gift, and later will have it's own ruler and be under Imperial control. The Emperor/Empress having supreme power over all states, essentially. Remember it is your nation so if you want to change anything you let me know :P
 
mcmasterdonia:
New Haven:
Cronaal:
I need to ask, is Añola being thrown around as a gift or currently independent during the empire's height of power?
Click to expand...

At the height of imperial power, at the beginning, Anola will be granted as a gift, and later will have it's own ruler and be under Imperial control. The Emperor/Empress having supreme power over all states, essentially. Remember it is your nation so if you want to change anything you let me know :P
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I know, I know it's my own but I'll still make sure you're okay with the stuff I do, when it concerns it's history at least. Also thank you for telling me.

When it comes to Añola's current county system, I'd like that to have been a more modern change, last 200 years maybe, so I'dd like it to be two or three larger states, or maybe countries, each with a minor leader, besides the Kardonia state. At this point it's just an idea to keep things different ^-^
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Cronaal:
mcmasterdonia:
New Haven:
Cronaal:
I need to ask, is Añola being thrown around as a gift or currently independent during the empire's height of power?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

At the height of imperial power, at the beginning, Anola will be granted as a gift, and later will have it's own ruler and be under Imperial control. The Emperor/Empress having supreme power over all states, essentially. Remember it is your nation so if you want to change anything you let me know :P
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I know, I know it's my own but I'll still make sure you're okay with the stuff I do, when it concerns it's history at least. Also thank you for telling me.

When it comes to Añola's current county system, I'd like that to have been a more modern change, last 200 years maybe, so I'dd like it to be two or three larger states, or maybe countries, each with a minor leader, besides the Kardonia state. At this point it's just an idea to keep things different ^-^
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Sure, even if you want it to early on be three or so separate states, we could have still imposed a national leader over the top of them, and given right of the throne as a gift to Lord Ravenclaw etc.

Those three or so separate states can also be separate members of the Empire, allowing each state their own vote for an Emperor's successor. Ultimately they would eventually unify right? So we could add that to the imperial timeline too.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Cronaal:
mcmasterdonia:
New Haven:
Cronaal:
I need to ask, is Añola being thrown around as a gift or currently independent during the empire's height of power?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

At the height of imperial power, at the beginning, Anola will be granted as a gift, and later will have it's own ruler and be under Imperial control. The Emperor/Empress having supreme power over all states, essentially. Remember it is your nation so if you want to change anything you let me know :P
Click to expand...
I know, I know it's my own but I'll still make sure you're okay with the stuff I do, when it concerns it's history at least. Also thank you for telling me.

When it comes to Añola's current county system, I'd like that to have been a more modern change, last 200 years maybe, so I'dd like it to be two or three larger states, or maybe countries, each with a minor leader, besides the Kardonia state. At this point it's just an idea to keep things different ^-^
Click to expand...
Sure, even if you want it to early on be three or so separate states, we could have still imposed a national leader over the top of them, and given right of the throne as a gift to Lord Ravenclaw etc.

Those three or so separate states can also be separate members of the Empire, allowing each state their own vote for an Emperor's successor. Ultimately they would eventually unify right? So we could add that to the imperial timeline too.
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Yes! I'd assume the name Añola comes from the general area that they're in and how it's just plain easier than say Kardonia, X States and X State separately.
 
I might apply, but my nation is founded on 1024 A.D., so we might appear later. History before that is totally unknown even in our nation.
 
I like the idea, especially as it ties in quite well with my nation's established history so far if it ends its' reign in the 1700s.

I also like the idea of individual Kingdoms joining at a time. That gives a better backstory for my area as each Hold can be roughly based on the borders of the Historical Kingdoms instead of arbitrarily assigned by me. As part of that, I also want to run an idea by Arch, based around the territory you currently have on Archlancer Island. If I decide to go with the idea of 8 Kingdoms being roughly what is the modern holds of TLE then I would want to intertwine our history a little more and make the area you have the 9th Historical Kingdom which would basically form one "Kingdom" of this Empire being "The Nine United Kingdoms Of Archlancer" or "The United Nine Of Archlancer" or just "The United Nine" (personally I favour The United Nine I think). Upon the reformation of the Empire in the early 2000s, perhaps Archegnum assisted in the South and captured most of that area and as a result was granted the old 9th Kingdom of *Name To Be Determined* as a reward.

Anyways, returning to the topic at hand, I'm thinking that the 8 (or 9) Kingdoms of Archlancer Island joined somewhat earlier on in the timeline based on sheer proximity, and one by oneish as you suggested. Only when all 9 kingdoms have joined 50-100 years after the first do these kingdoms agree to send have one leader represent the entire island of nations in the Empire that the name "The United Nine" begin to become commonplace.

I'd be interested in also having Archlancer be the site of a first major event in the gradual downfall of the Empire. After a relatively long period of peace or something, several kingdoms break away at the same time from the Empire in the late 1500s, early 1600s. The Empire retakes some of the land but the Kingdoms hold steadfast through a 3 year long and very bloody war and the rebellion fails to be put down. Eventually, in the mid-1600s these rebellion kingdoms, again in alliance, attack the remaining kingdoms and the Empire's power on the island of Archlancer fails as the remaining kingdoms are just barely "liberated" of the Empire's rule. The territory is held in a weak grip.

The stage is set for further rebellion in support of the empire and other causes and the kingdoms split into even smaller petty kingdoms and despite a period of moderate peace during the 1700s, by the 1800s the wars reignite and then-modern dictatorships of the time and differing government types form as the island becomes almost an experimental ground of early communist, anarchist, and other movements who seem to successfully carve out a chunk of land for themselves amid the power struggle. In 1892, the Old Kingdom Of Lancers is formed of a chunk of the west coast of the historical Kingdom Of Soult seeking to remain neutral, peaceful if possible, and progressive. That's where it lines up with the history I've established already.

Potential Timeline (WIP):

710BC: 1st Kingdom (Kingdom Of Soult) joins the Empire.
701BC: 2nd Kingdom (Kingdom Of Saxe, allies of Kingdom of Soult) follows suit and joins the Empire.
693BC: Kingdom Of Saxe briefly leaves the Empire after a diplomatic incident with Soult.
692BC: Kindgom Of Saxe rejoins the Empire after good relations are reestablished with Soult and the incident resolved on good terms.
652BC: The Grand-Duchy of Ney joins the Empire.
633BC: The Kingdom of Massena joins the Empire.
620BC: The Kingdom of *Insert Name Here 9th Kingdom of Arch's current land* joins the Empire.
620BC: The Petty Kingdom Of Napier, close allies with *Insert Name Here* joins the Empire a couple months after its' bigger ally.
617BC: The Kingdom of Berthier reluctantly decides to seek a spot in the Empire at rumors of potential invasion to secure more of the remainder of non-Empire territory on the island.
589BC: The Independent Duchy Of Ferey is the last non-empire nation to join the Empire.
424BC: The Kingdoms of Archlancer, by now close in ideas and goals decide to unite as a larger kingdom within the Empire to become a more powerful member and thereby securing their interests.
416BC: Author Jacques Harmes publishes a work entitled The United Nine: A History Of The Kingdoms Of Archlancer, one of the first comprehensive works on the history of the kingdoms. "The United Nine" becomes a colloquial term for the Kingdoms Of Archlancer over the next decade.
222BC: The Kings of Saxe and Napier begin "The Bastards' Rebellion" so-named because through unusual circumstance they were both bastard sons of their fathers who inherited the throne when their fathers had no other sons. The rebellion is quickly put-down and new royal families are installed in both countries.
221BC - 1278AD: Peace reigns on the island of Archlancer separated by only minor, quickly handled raids and rebellions. The United Nine becomes a major source of culture within the Empire. This period of time becomes known as "The Fifteen Years" for 1500 years of peace and culture. 1047: Queen of Soult Amrie is the first female representative of The United Nine to the Empire.
1278-1303: Religious militias form and clash sporadically throughout The United Nine. The majority religion changes and conflict settles down.
1458: In a new wave of religious conflict, the religion of the Northmen is banned throughout The United Nine by the Empire with support from the southern kingdoms who found their traditions barbaric. The Northmen protest but are ignored. Despite the ban, the religion remains widely practiced.
1460: Under the premise that disobeying Empirical law by practicing the religion accounted as rebellion, Legion troops enter Northmen churches and forcefully remove worshipers and destroy selected churches. Those who refused to move were killed. Unrest throughout the North deepens. The practice of their religion continued in private, hidden halls.
1502: Due to royal marriages among their families and the lack of a son, when the King of Berthier dies the King of Massena inherits the throne.
1512: After securing more power and wealth over the past decade, the King of Berthier-Massena begins "The Northmen Rebellion". The rebellion meets the Imperial Legion and the personal forces of the remaining kingdoms mid-way through Ferey and is halted by the end of summer 1512. The war remains at a stalemate through the winter.
1513: In spring, a massive push is organised north and The Northmen Rebellion is defeated and the King of Berthier-Massena executed. The two kingdoms are seperated once again with a 2nd cousin of the old King of Berthier being granted the throne there and a distant relative of the King of Massena is granted the throne there. The people of the Kingdom of Massena enjoy their time of independence and independent sentiments would remain strong but mostly non-violent in the years following the war. The loyalty of their new King is to his people and over the decades of his reign he considers another independence move.
1563: In no small part due to intrigue on the part of the Kingdom of Massena, independence sentiments within the Kingdoms of Massena, Berthier, and Ferey are extremely strong.
1565: "The 2nd Northmen Rebellion" begins with the Kingdoms of Massena, Berthier, and Ferey. With the chokepoint of the Empire on their side the forces of the rebellion push deep into the Kingdom of Soult.
1566: The Imperial Legion pushes the rebellion back to the borders of the Kingdom of Ferey. The rebellion holds here and isn't pushed back any farther through the summer, then winter.
1567: Seeking to repeat what the Imperial Legion achieved in 1513 during the 1st Northmen Rebellion, a large push is organised for the spring. With Ferey's chokepoint defenses on the rebel side, massive casualties are inflicted in the failed Legion attempt. The rebellion exploits the weakness and counterattacks into the Kingdom of Soult in the summer. Facing defeat the Empire seeks peace with a large rebellion for the first time in its history. The Northmen accept and form the Kingdoms Of The North in Autumn 1567.
1595: The sons of the Kings who succeeded in their rebellion decide to form a new alliance with plans to capture the remainder of Archlancer Island. The knowledge of this alliance is kept between the three kings and their closest advisors alone.
1597: "The Northmen Alliance War" begins and the independent kingdoms of the north rapidly mobilize after two years of planning and advance on those to the south. The Legion is caught off-guard and their forces do not arrive on Archlancer Island in significant strength until the Kingdom of Soult, Ney, and Lannes are largely or completely taken. The navies of the north do their best to disrupt and destroy the ships bringing reinforcements. Though the navies are defeated within 6 months and the war at sea won by the Empire, the damage and delays the ships caused what many historians argue to be the loss of the war on land for the Empire.
1598: A bloody war on land between the legion and the Northmen rages on. The Legion forces still retain control of most of The Kingdom of Napier and the *insert name here kingdom of arch's territory*.
1599: The Kingdom of Napier and the eastern quarter of the *insertname here kingdom of arch's territory* are lost. The Legion puts up a strong defense every inch of the way. The Northmen bear many casualties and loses several of its best commanders.
1601: The Northmen Alliance completes their conquest of Archlancer Island with great casualties sustained in a final push and claim a near-pyrrhic victory. The people of the southern kingdoms strongly resent the new Northmen leaders and kings in the face of atrocities committed during the war and simply because they are disloyal Northmen (not loyal to the Empire).
POST-EMPIRE HISTORY
1601-1688: A weak Northmen grip on the southern kingdoms is maintained. The people of the south from the peasant to the scholar resent the Northmen.
1688-1730: Various rebellions of the South and other causes seeking to exploit the weak grip of the Northmen are met with varying levels of success.
1730-1855: Moderate peace reigns. Rebellions are farther and fewer between.
1855: An especially cruel Northmen King inherits the throne in the Kingdom of Berthier and with support from the Kingdom of Massena seeks to put down the unrest in the South once and for all. Various atrocities and cruel acts are peformed by Northmen throughout the South over the next 2 years.
1858: In a shocking event, The Kings of Berthier and Massena are assassinated resulting in a power vacuum in both Kingdoms. The south uses the oppourtunity to rebel. Southern Nationalist movements, early communist and anarchist movements, as well has other movements seek to use the oppourtunity to gain power.
1858-1900s: Short-lived Kingdoms, democracies, enlightened empires, communist, anarchist, theocratic, and other countries are commonplace. Only a few countries last a great deal of time.
1892: The first King of the Audet dynasty forms The Kingdom Of Lancers on the western coast of the old kingdom of Soult, gathering together scholars, those wishing peace, and various other groups looking towards his ideals and secures the country as one of the few stable contenders.
And the rest is roughly already written elsewhere.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Kalti:
The Kaltians had monarchical rule (either a tribal monarchy with elders or a pure true monarchy) from 990 B.C.E. to 656 C.E.. However, we are located on the complete other end of the map from you so I would only go so far as to say that there was the occasional trade by far flung explorers who ended up in territories owned or controlled by your empire.
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Love your ideas. I'm wondering if 1500 is too late. Could we establish the trading colony a bit earlier, like in the year 1050? That way there is a much greater period of time for the assimilation that you mention, and then Archegnum would be a fully powerful state in it's own right by 1500.
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I slightly revised my history so the split lasted roughly 454 years which puts its end date at 959 C.E.. As such, the Federation of Kalti forms in 959 C.E. with the collapse of the House of Amberwin and the House of Surkeal and both monarchies being abolished. With the formation of the federation, the new democratic government will want to establish new trading relations with other nations of the region. Do keep in mind that the the Confederation comes about in 1408 C.E. with the joining of Kalti and Callaici... Callaici being a country that is formed around 250 B.C.E. and ends up hosting a trading port of the Kaltians when they land there around the year 1000 C.E.. So if you want, I can do a shared history with the Kaltians (and from them the Callaicians) as an economic trading partner.

Note: Callaici joins the Confederation in 1408 C.E. due to internal infighting and the fall of their democratic government which the Kaltians intervene in and save... The Callaicians mostly join out of a sense of gratitude, shared interests and economic partnerships that have stood for centuries.
 
I'm pretty much in the same boat as Kalti's in, i'm halfway across the map but Wolvesh mercenaries are always available for the right price.
 
Yrkidding:
<snip>
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I <3 your timeline. That looks excellent.

I am expecting that the Empire will be officially dissolved in the 1840s, with the Kingdom of Plembobria being the last major power to leave in 1799.

McMasterdonian colonies such as Archegnum, Anola, and Salvarity might leave at different times, possibly later. My only concern is that TLE leaving in 1600 might be that little bit too early? But possibly it could be settled through a marriage arrangement and a declaration of peace.

Meanwhile the Empire would continue to fund certain royal figures in The lancerian Empire and support the instability of their enemies.

Kalti:
mcmasterdonia:
Kalti:
The Kaltians had monarchical rule (either a tribal monarchy with elders or a pure true monarchy) from 990 B.C.E. to 656 C.E.. However, we are located on the complete other end of the map from you so I would only go so far as to say that there was the occasional trade by far flung explorers who ended up in territories owned or controlled by your empire.
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Love your ideas. I'm wondering if 1500 is too late. Could we establish the trading colony a bit earlier, like in the year 1050? That way there is a much greater period of time for the assimilation that you mention, and then Archegnum would be a fully powerful state in it's own right by 1500.
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I slightly revised my history so the split lasted roughly 454 years which puts its end date at 959 C.E.. As such, the Federation of Kalti forms in 959 C.E. with the collapse of the House of Amberwin and the House of Surkeal and both monarchies being abolished. With the formation of the federation, the new democratic government will want to establish new trading relations with other nations of the region. Do keep in mind that the the Confederation comes about in 1408 C.E. with the joining of Kalti and Callaici... Callaici being a country that is formed around 250 B.C.E. and ends up hosting a trading port of the Kaltians when they land there around the year 1000 C.E.. So if you want, I can do a shared history with the Kaltians (and from them the Callaicians) as an economic trading partner.

Note: Callaici joins the Confederation in 1408 C.E. due to internal infighting and the fall of their democratic government which the Kaltians intervene in and save... The Callaicians mostly join out of a sense of gratitude, shared interests and economic partnerships that have stood for centuries.
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A trading agreement would work. The Confederation could be long standing friends of the Empire, also potentially helping us with spying and intelligence in the eastern part of the world.
 
I am interested in starting to RP my main nation, Myroria, here in The North Pacific as well as Floresque - as a small city-state, I feel like my options towards international RP are limited.

One characteristic of Myroria's history I would like to keep if I move it here is making the Myrorian people former victims of a genocide or ethnicity-based mass murder. Would you be willing to make this Empire of yours commit such a crime in the past? Either Myroria being a province of this empire regularly abused by the government or Myroria being an independent nation invaded, conquered, and massacred by the Empire would work for me.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Archegnum:
Definitely interested. This sounds like a great idea.

So we discussed in PMs and stuff - should McMasterdonia still establish its first contact/trading posts in what will subsequently become Archegnum in the 1500s? I think that would give the Empire a good deal of time to evolve its governmental and political structure.

My basic idea so far is that the Archegnuman region has at various times been united under its own, native, Archipelegian Kingdom. Basically, aforementioned Archipelegain Kingdom rose, fell and divided, and rose again, several times before McMasterdonians arrived. This process occurred through different dynasties and noble houses. When the McMasterdonians do arrive, the (then divided) Archipelago is at a roughly Middle-Ages technology level, so not too far behind McMasterdonia. The McMasterdonians, however, simply become the latest dynasty to reunite the Archipelago, integrating it simultaneously into this loose, HRE-style Empire.

Think China (like the Warring-States and stuff).

This basically blends my desire for Archegnum to be an ancient, cultured nation (i.e. the pre-Empire days) but still have a colonial history (i.e. the McMasterdonian House of Iluvatar, that still rules over Archegnum today (though obviously independently)). It would also explain how native Archegnuman culture (which I envision to be some sort of blend of Medieval English, Byzantine Greek, and Japanese culture, though obviously none of those nations actually exist in the North Pacific) survived and thrived.
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Kalti:
The Kaltians had monarchical rule (either a tribal monarchy with elders or a pure true monarchy) from 990 B.C.E. to 656 C.E.. However, we are located on the complete other end of the map from you so I would only go so far as to say that there was the occasional trade by far flung explorers who ended up in territories owned or controlled by your empire.
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Love your ideas. I'm wondering if 1500 is too late. Could we establish the trading colony a bit earlier, like in the year 1050? That way there is a much greater period of time for the assimilation that you mention, and then Archegnum would be a fully powerful state in it's own right by 1500.

Did you envision Archegnum being divided into smaller kingdoms or holds? These could become individual members of the Empire, and then unify later on as discussed.
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Thank you :)

Earlier the better, I think. The nature of the physical geography of TNP makes it likely that colonisation could occur earlier than in our world by virtue of the shallow bodies of water dividing each micro-continent, as I like to call them. If we're talking about the year 1050 as being roughly the same to OUR 1050, in the 11th Century, in terms of technology, that would leave us around the tech level of the Byzantine Empire at that time. So pretty sophisticated.

Perhaps, just to make it more 'random' or whatever, how about 1053 as the year in which McMasterdonians become... 'involved', shall we say, in internal Archegnuman affairs.

I'm thinking that the people living in the geographical region of Archegnum at the time of McMasterdonian expansion would have a tech level slightly lower than this, perhaps about a century behind. Which isn't that much (for that technological time period), so it'd be more the political situation of the Archipelago that led to McMasterdonian conquest/settlement, as opposed to the inferiority of the military.

My idea for Archegnuman reunification under McMasterdonia is sort of like this:

Archegnum (the region) was at the time divided, as it has on occasion been at certain times during the past. Various city-states, small kingdoms, duchies and the like would exist during such periods, until one or a combination of the smaller states would grow in power enough to reunify the Archipelago under a High King (Nathanael II is 'Emperor' because of Archegnum's overseas possessions in other regions, not the title of the monarch of the Archipelegian Kingdom. 'High King' is one of his titles). Basically, the 'Archipelegian Kingdom' is a concept of unification and power amongst the various ethnically and culturally Archegnuman people groups.

What I think would work in terms of McMasterdonian dominance is that they just turn out to be the latest power or dynasty to reunite the nation. Say you ally with some of the successor states against the others, or perhaps just one (the two powerful provinces that I know will be relevant and around at the time of expansion for this unnamed Empire, Lorem and Quachel, come to mind), and ally with them against their various enemies throughout the Archipelago. In return, they swear fealty to the 'Emperor', effectively being integrated into the Empire and becoming a vassal.

Over time, this McMasterdonian/Some-of-Archegnum alliance (all under the banner of both the Empire and the smaller state) absorb more and more of the smaller states until the Archipelago is fully unified and a new 'Archipelegian Kingdom' is declared, the leader of whatever state McMasterdonia was allied with being crowned High King of the reunified entity. One of his titles could then be 'Viceroy (I like that word) of the Emperor', referring to his vassalship in relation to the central Imperial government of this unnamed Empire, and the Archegnuman membership of it, in a sort of HRE-like relationship.

Oh, btw everyone, because my current flag has some very obvious British/Commonwealth features on it, I'll be changing it to a totally new one before long. Just thought I should mention that.
 
Yrkidding:
As part of that, I also want to run an idea by Arch, based around the territory you currently have on Archlancer Island. If I decide to go with the idea of 8 Kingdoms being roughly what is the modern holds of TLE then I would want to intertwine our history a little more and make the area you have the 9th Historical Kingdom which would basically form one "Kingdom" of this Empire being "The Nine United Kingdoms Of Archlancer" or "The United Nine Of Archlancer" or just "The United Nine" (personally I favour The United Nine I think). Upon the reformation of the Empire in the early 2000s, perhaps Archegnum assisted in the South and captured most of that area and as a result was granted the old 9th Kingdom of *Name To Be Determined* as a reward.

Anyways, returning to the topic at hand, I'm thinking that the 8 (or 9) Kingdoms of Archlancer Island joined somewhat earlier on in the timeline based on sheer proximity, and one by oneish as you suggested. Only when all 9 kingdoms have joined 50-100 years after the first do these kingdoms agree to send have one leader represent the entire island of nations in the Empire that the name "The United Nine" begin to become commonplace.

I'd be interested in also having Archlancer be the site of a first major event in the gradual downfall of the Empire. After a relatively long period of peace or something, several kingdoms break away at the same time from the Empire in the late 1500s, early 1600s. The Empire retakes some of the land but the Kingdoms hold steadfast through a 3 year long and very bloody war and the rebellion fails to be put down. Eventually, in the mid-1600s these rebellion kingdoms, again in alliance, attack the remaining kingdoms and the Empire's power on the island of Archlancer fails as the remaining kingdoms are just barely "liberated" of the Empire's rule. The territory is held in a weak grip.
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I like this idea. But one thing I must insist on - it be ethnically and culturally Archegnuman. But as my history seems to be similar to yours: i.e. various smaller political entities unifying (although Archegnum has been unified before, which I don't think the Lancerian Empire has. I could be wrong.), I can see the politics of these more divided periods mixing up with that of modern Lanceria (as it is often called in Archegnum - I realise this is not an official name).

I'm fine with a northern Archegnuman nation existing and, for a time, being one of these '9 Kingdoms'. However, these people too would hold to the concept of a unified 'Archipelagian Kingdom' and may compete with other Archegnuman states/principalities etc. to recreate this larger entity.

So the structure of this '8/9 Kingdoms', is it like a HRE thing, or is it more centralised? Might help us figure out what to do with this northern/souther kingdom.

Because Archegnum has been unified in the past, pre-Empire days, perhaps we ought to discuss how this unified state affected the earlier history of the region that is now the Lancerian Empire. The earlier Archipelegian Kingdom's that had been unified before the House of Iluvatar could have attempted to conquer/settle/influence pre-Lancerian states.

I also like your idea of a crisis on Archlancer precipitating the decline of the Empire. Perhaps Archegnum could have something to do with it, maybe dissatisfied with their lot in the Empire, and supporting the rebellious Kingdoms in their attempt to break away in order to separately influence them, outside the framework of the Imperial system.
 
Esplandia gained its independence from the kingdom of Albion in 1582. Albion was pretty much a predecessor to Esplandia. At the time of Esplandia's formation Albion was independent. Perhaps at one time Albion was part of this empire, or perhaps Albion was settled by emigrants from your empire. Everything before 1582 in my history is blank.
 
mcmasterdonia:
-snip-

A trading agreement would work. The Confederation could be long standing friends of the Empire, also potentially helping us with spying and intelligence in the eastern part of the world.
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The Estate (the government of the Federation) is the one that created the trade agreement and port between Kalti and Callaici in the year 1001. They can easily extend it westward to include a few trade routes with McMasterdonian Empire. Then in 1408 C.E. with the formation of the Confederation, the Forum (the government of the Confederation) will have taken over any trade agreements. Any trade agreements with the west, be it with McMasterdonia or anyone else, would stand and continue with the new governmental body.

With spying and intelligence, the modern framework of the Royal Confederation Forces and Confederation Intelligence Community didn't come into play until the 1500s or 1600s, a hundred or two hundred years after the formation of the Confederation. Before then, each country was protected by highly skilled militias and navies. However, the Assassin's Guild has existed in some form or another since 990 B.C.E. and has acted as the spy network for Kalti and the monarchy for centuries. The new democratic government that took over in 959 C.E. never abolished them so they continue to exist. I'd be happy to role-play them in an intelligence gathering position.

Some notes:
- The Federation (of Kalti): Kalti on its own from 959 C.E. to 1408 C.E. ... still exists today as the main country of the Confederation
- The Confederation: the joining of Kalti and Callaici in 1408 ... Tir na Andalucia would not join until the 1700s or 1800s

The names are a little confusing but they either refer to the individual country or to the whole thing together.
 
This is my current idea of what the political situation of the Archegnuman Archipelago looked like just before McMasterdonia started interfering in the region. Basically, a load of squabbling successor states left after the collapse of the previous Archipelagian Kingdom, just waiting to be taken advantage of by an outside power.

6p3m3a.png

I left Lancerian territories out at this point, though I would assume that those enclaves would have been a part of some of the Warring States at the time. We'll have to figure out how we got our respective exclaves/enclaves at some point, YrKidding - I'm thinking that mine could have been the result of minor colonisation by the previous Archipelagian Kingdom before its collapse.
 
To Arch:

I'm thinking a compromise of sorts. In my mind the Empire failing on Archlancer Island needs to be complete to be fully symbolic. The entirety of the island needs to be lost. Therefore I moved towards the idea that after one of the periods where a unifcation falls apart and war rages throughout Archegnum, a great deal of people flee to the 9th kingdom (which roughly consists of your current territory on Archlancer Island) during the 1300s. During that war and through peacetime this changes the population to become roughly 40% of Archegnum descent and the culture becoming a unique blend of Archegnumian and that of the Southmen by the end of the century. The kingdom, however, remains a part of The United Nine (which remains a distinctly a separate entity from either of our current countries). This 9th Kingdom fights with the South against the Northmen (a group favoured by neither Southmen or Archegnumians) during The Northmen Rebellion of 1512, The 2nd Northmen Rebellion of 1565, and The Northmen Alliance War of 1597. Like the rest of the Southern Kingdoms, they are conquered by the Northmen by 1601 and the complete island of Archlancer is rid of the Empire's influence as the first nail in the coffin of a long, gradual decline of the Empire.

The Northmen rule over the island until 1858, when their weak grip is finally exploited by a successful Southern rebellion, plunging the island into a period of "Short-lived Kingdoms, democracies, enlightened empires, communist, anarchist, theocratic, and other countries are commonplace." Where only a few nations persevere for more than a couple decades. The historical kingdoms with the exception of the Kingdom of Ney are largely or completely destroyed. By now, through commonplace immigration and emigration between Archegnum and the 9th kingdom during the preceding century, 60% of the population now considers themselves of either solely Archegnumian descent, half 9th-Kingdom half-Archegnum, or lesser but significant fractions Archegunmian. Recognizing the need to rescue their people, Archegnum itself invades in 1860 and retakes roughly the area of the old 9th Kingdom, your current day territory. In the face of the chaotic fate of the people of the other parts of Archlancer Island and already positive relations, the remaining Southmen minorty (30 something %) is more than happy with their new rulers of Archegnum. Since 1860, the culture of the area has gradually become even more Archegnumian but some traditions, monuments, and holidays of the old Southmen remains. This means that for roughly the last 200 years, the 9th Kingdom has been a part of Archegnum, but had close ties for some 500 years before that. If Archegnum is still a colony of the Empire by the 1860 then this could also be a nice little resurgence of the Empire's influence on Archlancer before you leave some years later, and independence movement being more motivated by the idea that Archegnum now has the territory of the old 9th kingdom and therefore more resources and power than that of a simply colony anymore.

I really like the idea of the 9th Kingdom (and really Archlancer Island as a whole) being neither yours nor mine, I think of it as a wholly different period of history separate from either of our nations but instead of the nations that history has tossed to the wind. Remember, when going back this far in time, the history becomes the history of the island and those people and flags that happened to be upon it in certain years. It's no longer really about our nation in particular.

Last thing to address: Our islands in each other's territories. I think the explanation for my island off the coast of your western island lies in more ancient times. I propose that the migration of people on Archlancer Island and the areas of your nation spread East to West. In the eventual race for land after the island's discovery one long-forgotten faction ended up seeking colonization of the western island heading straight south from the western tips of Archlancer Island. Charts were poor, and the island hadn't been mapped properly yet. When these people landed on the smaller of the two islands they were convinced they'd landed on a single western island. The other faction landed on the eastern shores of the island and began their colonization. By the time the first faction learned of their mistake the other faction had already secured their settlements and when things came down to it the eastern shores faction pushed the island faction off the "mainland" of the island but never off the smaller one. Eventually the island faction ended up aligning with one of the kingdoms on Archlancer and the eastern shores faction aligned with one of your kingdoms.

In regards to the other islands, the island I have off your south shore is the result of a successful conquest by a group of particularly hardy Southmen (hence the name Ile Sudhommes which translates to Southmen Island) and has remained in their control ever since. They briefly declared their own kingdom but for their own protection decided to swear fealty to the Kingdom of Lannes. This island is sort of like Malta in real-life in the sense that it ended up being fortified and therefore very costly (and in this case not worth) taking.

For your territory on the Northeast shore of Archlancer and the island off the North Shore, I'm thinking this is simply more territory grabbed during the turmoil of the 1800s-1900s era, the northeast an area claimed to ease the operation of navy ships off the Northeast coast of Archlancer Island, the island off the north shore to ease the operation of navy ships off the Northwest shores of Archlancer Island. When it came to reconquering the island in the name of peace in the early 2000s to form The Lancerian Empire, now Queen-Empress Amelia and the Unification Forces recognized Archegnum to be an important player and someone who could be a valuable ally with similar values once the Empire was formed, as such the small territory you gained during the turmoil was respected, a small price to pay for the first of the legitimate nations of The North Pacific to recognize The Lancerian Empire officially in 2003.

@Mcm:

I was under the impression you imagined a gradual decline of the Empire, perhaps with certain resurgences. If your empire involves 6 or 7 major players, I don't think that all of these players or even a couple would leave at the same time. If the last kingdoms of the island of Archlancer are conquered away from the Empire in 1601, and the last major player to leave was in 1799, that gives you 198 years for 6-7 major empires to fall apart or become independent, these things generally don't happen overnight but instead over a great deal of years. I don't think it's too early, but I can change the timeline to be a little later possibly.

As I said earlier in my address to Arch, there's also another oppourtunity or two here for the Empire, one being Archegnum reconquering the area of the old 9th kingdom in 1860 resulting in a little bit of the Empire's influence coming back to Archlancer Island before Archegnum bows out of the Empire a little later on.

I'd also like to remind you that The Lancerian Empire doesn't actually exist until 2001, and even The Old Kingdom Of Lancers that created it didn't exist until 1892, being one of those nations that sprung up during the era of anarchy through the late 1800s and the 1900s on the island.

Here also exists an explanation for why Archegnum became a colony and the nations of Archlancer Island did not. By the time that the Empire was interested in seeking influence in Archegnum the United Nine had already long been a part of the Empire. By the time the final great period of anarchy on the island emerges in 1858 the Empire has well waned, and doesn't want to get involved in the place where their first defeats were dealt.
 
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