Repeal of the Collective Defense Agreement

[plembobria]

The Collective Defense Agreement is henceforth repealed.

Members, I believe that, due to recent regional conflicts, the Collective Defense Agreement needs to be repealed. I, and the Kingdom of Plembobria, feel that it is wrong for member nations to be obliged to assist others in military conflicts.

The CDA was necessary when the DU was a smaller, more like-minded organization. It was passed during a relatively peaceful climate. Now members are more diverse. There is little of a collective military interest involved in this organization. Members have widely differing views on military matters. Therefore, we feel that it is necessary to allow each member to maintain absolute military independence from this organization.

Thank you.

 

[Syrixia]

I'm for this. Normally in an alliance such as Helmebaine or Faibuaizu this would be very important, but this is the Democratic Union. This organization is bigger than that. The bigger and even moreso more topically diverse an organization is, the less helpful mutual defense clauses become.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

The Collective Defense Agreement is henceforth repealed.

Members, I believe that, due to recent regional conflicts, the Collective Defense Agreement needs to be repealed. I, and the Kingdom of Plembobria, feel that it is wrong for member nations to be obliged to assist others in military conflicts.

The CDA was necessary when the DU was a smaller, more like-minded organization. It was passed during a relatively peaceful climate. Now members are more diverse. There is little of a collective military interest involved in this organization. Members have widely differing views on military matters. Therefore, we feel that it is necessary to allow each member to maintain absolute military independence from this organization.

Thank you.

"I strongly disagree with the representative from Plembobria on this particular issue. I believe that it is reasonable for member states of the Democratic Union to be united together in collective defense. This also means that should a conflict arise between member states, the DU will be in a powerful position to mediate the conflict and to punish the aggressors.

I believe with the rise of terrorist states and the significant growth in other organisations who are aimed simply in the procurement of the weapons and are hell bent on random nonsensical conflicts. A glance at the state of national affairs in the region would see this quite clearly"

I'm for this. Normally in an alliance such as Helmebaine or Faibuaizu this would be very important, but this is the Democratic Union. This organization is bigger than that. The bigger and even moreso more topically diverse an organization is, the less helpful mutual defense clauses become.

"With respect to the representative from Syrixia, it's clear that you have a strong bias on this matter. This would simply strengthen the other organisations that you are involved in. If anything, you should abstain from this matter"

 

[Syrixia]

I don't see why I should abstain. The DU is just too big and too topically diverse for a mutual defense clausw, and that is the fact of the matter.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

I don't see why I should abstain. The DU is just too big and too topically diverse for a mutual defense clausw, and that is the fact of the matter.

That fact of the matter is that you have an interest in seeing the ability of the DU to respond in a mutual defense sense to be weakened, given your membership of other militaristic and colonialist organisations.

 

[Syrixia]

I don't see why I should abstain. The DU is just too big and too topically diverse for a mutual defense clausw, and that is the fact of the matter.

That fact of the matter is that you have an interest in seeing the ability of the DU to respond in a mutual defense sense to be weakened, given your membership of other militaristic and colonialist organisations.

I disagree with your accusation. Currently Syrixia is party to the following major organizations:

-NPTO
-DU
-GNPTA
-Helmebaine Alliance

These organizations are not militaristic or colonialist at all; though I can see you probably are referring to the fourth one in particular. Helmebaine has never demonstrated colonialism as an alliance; and that to me seems as if it is just an insult. Your accusations of militarism are also plain wrong, as we have only responded militarily if one of our members is being attacked. Cases in point: Rhuvanland and South Cronaal.

But enough about Syrixia. I will not abstain because your accusations are borderline wrong and Syrixia retains its opinion on the specific topic at hand. Now shall we return to the discussion on that topic?

(OOC: I'm off to bed for the night. I suggest we get back to the topic the OP laid out.)

 

[mcmasterdonia]

I don't see why I should abstain. The DU is just too big and too topically diverse for a mutual defense clausw, and that is the fact of the matter.

That fact of the matter is that you have an interest in seeing the ability of the DU to respond in a mutual defense sense to be weakened, given your membership of other militaristic and colonialist organisations.

I disagree with your accusation. Currently Syrixia is party to the following major organizations:

-NPTO
-DU
-GNPTA
-Helmebaine Alliance

These organizations are not militaristic or colonialist at all; though I can see you probably are referring to the fourth one in particular. Helmebaine has never demonstrated colonialism as an alliance; and that to me seems as if it is just an insult. Your accusations of militarism are also plain wrong, as we have only responded militarily if one of our members is being attacked. Cases in point: Rhuvanland and South Cronaal.

But enough about Syrixia. I will not abstain because your accusations are borderline wrong and Syrixia retains its opinion on the specific topic at hand. Now shall we return to the discussion on that topic?

(OOC: I'm off to bed for the night. I suggest we get back to the topic the OP laid out.)

OOC: This is relevant to the topic, I've kept it in character and I suggest you do the same.

"An objective view of some of those organisations, as well as the ongoing conflicts you have been involved in over the past 12-18 months have been highly militarized. It is also relevant that the ongoing potentially nuclear conflict could have implications for DU and other nations, especially within that sphere of influence.

It would be a lie to suggest that you have only been involved in two military actions. This is relevant. The DU needs to retain the ability to obligate our members to protect all member states. This includes nations who perhaps do not have a military, or nations that do not have a huge defensive response against aggressor nations.

The mutual defense clause is a crucial part of the democratic union. I believe that it is a vital part of ensuring the stability of the DU and the member states who rely on the protection of this body."

 

[Just a Lore]

"To repeal this treaty would be foolish, especially in these troubling times. I can understand the fears of others of the domino effect it could create I do not make any pretense to the perfection of the original treaty and I do advocate it to be fixed.

Think of the application that such a repeal would have. Relations are strained between Andulus and Helmebaine Member, Sebland. With them attempting to expand their territory and consolidate power near my nation, the repeal of this treaty if something sparks war between Sebland and Andulus, then Syrixia would be given free reign to decide to join the conflict on Sebland's side and invade a fellow Democratic Union member.

I am not necessarily saying that it would happen but that is the risk we take in repealing this.

 

[The Spokesman of Eumenor]

The Eumenorian delegate believes that the issue lies not with the defence clause but with the behaviour of certain nations within the DU. Instead of repealing the clause, we should look to tackle this reckless and violent behaviour at its source.

 

[Syrixia]

@Andulus: Not necessarily. Considering that both Syrixia and Andulus are DU members, Syrixia would bring the issue before the DU and the Helmebaine Alliance to try and drum up as big an effort as possible to stop the conflict by means of diplomacy.

Point being, I doubt there would be much of a risk because you didn't take into account that national governments are sensible enough to not just blindly invade stuff. Unless you're Nebula.

 

[Just a Lore]

Given your nations almost pathological mistrust and almost crusaderish attitude towards Communists, and your nation's policy of naming a military to show its purpose is 100% for invasion purposes excuse me if I don't wish to put the fate of my nation into the hands of your government's ability to negotiate in the Helmebaine Alliance on our behalf.

It should not be the policy of an alliance, the oldest in existence to turn its back on fellow members in the times when it needs its friends the most.

 

[Just a Lore]

(OOC *It double posted for some reason*)

 

[Syrixia]

Given your nations almost pathological mistrust and almost crusaderish attitude towards Communists, and your nation's policy of naming a military to show its purpose is 100% for invasion purposes excuse me if I don't wish to put the fate of my nation into the hands of your government's ability to negotiate in the Helmebaine Alliance on our behalf.

It should not be the policy of an alliance, the oldest in existence to turn its back on fellow members in the times when it needs its friends the most.

...which is why I stated that if Syrixia is party to alliances that both beligerents are members of, we would bring or help bring the issue before them in order to find peace. If we took sides, the side we didn't take would not be happy. It's important to help everyone.

 

[plembobria]

After private discussion with the representatives of other member states here, and a discussion with the Cabinet. The Plembobrian delegate no longer wishes to press this motion. It is dropped.