Help me With Sadakoyama's economy

[Piscivore]

I have ideas how I think it should work, but I'm sure there are things I don't know and I could use some help in that regard.

What I have now is:
The Central bank of SDKY is in charge of issuing and printing money and selling bonds for large projects, like the monorail and the space station. Most everything else is supported by taxes.

Someone who wanted to start a business would look to his own karass (extended family) for funding first; if there wasn't enough free capital there they could borrow by contract from another karass or enter into a temporary alliance with them to share the proceeds.

Since cars are illegal, healthcare and education costs are fully funded by taxes, and real estate is owned by the karasses as sort of an anarcho-syndicalist thing, what other reasons for consumer credit would there be?

 

[Felis]

What do you mean by cars being illegal?
Does it mean citizen-owned vehicles or generally any road-vehicle.

 

[Piscivore]

What do you mean by cars being illegal?
Does it mean citizen-owned vehicles or generally any road-vehicle.

"Considering the considerable deleterious effect on environmental quality and social cohesiveness and the considerable danger to life, health and safety presented by combustion powered motorized transportation, Sadakoyama has banned personal ownership of any vehicle or mechanism of transportation powered by any form of on-board combustion. Commercial use of combustion powered construction and transportation equipment is regulated by the state with a view to minimizing environmental impact while maintaining economic growth. Public ownership and use of such vehicles is allowed only so far as necessary to provide for the state’s need for emergency services, infrastructure maintenance and defense.

Paved roadway exist, primarily within the tourist-friendly areas of Xanadu and Marsei, to accommodate commercial and public use vehicles such as a system of small electric busses for those tourists with physical disabilities or simply unaccustomed to walking long distances. These vehicles each have their own limited AI; not only are they self-driven but they are able to interact with tourists intelligently enough to serve as a tour guide. Large numbers of bicycles and small battery powered scooters are also to be found in use by private citizens and guests alike."

 

[Nebula]

What about industry?

 

[Piscivore]

What about industry?

We don't have a lot of industry. I imagine that for things like electronics, guns, ships, or furniture parts would be printed, machined, and/or grown, then hand (or robot) assembled individually. That would make them high quality, but relatively expensive compared to similar goods abroad. We have a culture that prioritizes personal development rather than fetishizing ownership of material goods; You're not going to see a Sadakhan's room full of tchotchkes and bling.

 

[Nebula]

How do you build cargo ships for trade? No economy can survive without some level of industry.

 

[Piscivore]

How do you build cargo ships for trade? No economy can survive without some level of industry.

We do have some industry, including shipbuilding. We're just not producing a lot of consumer goods or manufactured goods for export. Our economy is fueled by tourism, but we do a lot of IT work and other non-industrial products as well.

What I'm thinking is a lot of Sadakhan, either on their own or in groups, either freelance or set up companies in other countries to sell their services--such as IT or other technical work, or creating Sadakhan owned publishing houses--or distribute products such as pharmaceuticals (which we excel at). Synthetic diamonds we can produce for cheap in our labs and sell at ridiculous prices to other countries. Sometimes this is done aboveboard, sometimes not so much. All this wealth accumulated in other countries is sent back to Sadakoyama, either as cash or preferably as raw materials we don't have or don't want to wreck our environment to mine.

 

[Nebula]

Is your industry government-subsidized?

 

[Piscivore]

Is your industry government-subsidized?

Yes. In some cases, state-owned.

I've been thinking about it, and one of the biggest industrial need we would have is for tools. And the biggest consumer of those tools would be the University labs and the military.

 

[SillyString]

How do you build cargo ships for trade? No economy can survive without some level of industry.

I dispute this.

 

[Nebula]

How do you build cargo ships for trade? No economy can survive without some level of industry.

I dispute this.

Well, banking too.

 

[SillyString]

How do you build cargo ships for trade? No economy can survive without some level of industry.

I dispute this.

Well, banking too.

I mean, that's probably conventional wisdom, but I'm still going to dispute it. SillyString has neither, and so far I haven't run into any obvious problems. That's not the same as a real world example, but still.

 

[Nebula]

How do you build cargo ships for trade? No economy can survive without some level of industry.

I dispute this.

Well, banking too.

I mean, that's probably conventional wisdom, but I'm still going to dispute it. SillyString has neither, and so far I haven't run into any obvious problems. That's not the same as a real world example, but still.

Of the world's 10 smallest countries (not counting Sealand ):
-4 (the 4 largest; Grenada, Malta, the Maldives, and St. Kitts & Nevis) have tourism-based economies and fairly average GDP per capita for their regions.
-3 (three of the four remaining that are in Europe; Liechtenstein, San Marino, and Monaco) either have a lot of banks or are a vacation spot for the rich.
-2 (in the Pacific; Tuvalu and Nauru) are very poor due to their remoteness.
-1 (the Vatican) is the Vatican.

So where does your country fall?

 

[SillyString]

SillyString's economy is 100% tourism funded. We even terraformed our island to make it more conducive to that purpose! There's no manufacturing, no agriculture (except for small amounts of local fishing), etc. Practically everything we need is imported.

SillyString has elements of a rentier state, in that income is almost entirely derived from foreign countries and, to some extent, foreign access rights. At the same time, though, that income goes to the people (in the form of their Dot, an internally owned and managed hotel) instead of the national government. The government is funded relatively minimally, through taxes and some foreign deals. As a result, there's a genuine and inclusive political process that is lacking in the traditional rentier state.

It also has corporate elements - there is no such thing as a corporation or company, legally speaking, and no distinction between private business and public government. If you work or live somewhere, you own a share in that place and have the right to vote on any and all matters that come before it. Similarly, anyone who pays taxes to a sphere of government (from small, local Curves to the entire String) has a right to vote on everything - and in fact, "paying taxes to the String" is our definition of a citizen.

It's definitely an unusual setup, though, and I recognize that.

 

[Kannex]

SillyString's economy is 100% tourism funded. We even terraformed our island to make it more conducive to that purpose! There's no manufacturing, no agriculture (except for small amounts of local fishing), etc. Practically everything we need is imported.

SillyString has elements of a rentier state, in that income is almost entirely derived from foreign countries and, to some extent, foreign access rights. At the same time, though, that income goes to the people (in the form of their Dot, an internally owned and managed hotel) instead of the national government. The government is funded relatively minimally, through taxes and some foreign deals. As a result, there's a genuine and inclusive political process that is lacking in the traditional rentier state.

It also has corporate elements - there is no such thing as a corporation or company, legally speaking, and no distinction between private business and public government. If you work or live somewhere, you own a share in that place and have the right to vote on any and all matters that come before it. Similarly, anyone who pays taxes to a sphere of government (from small, local Curves to the entire String) has a right to vote on everything - and in fact, "paying taxes to the String" is our definition of a citizen.

It's definitely an unusual setup, though, and I recognize that.

So basically, you have some kind of quasi-utopian, corporatist soviet of communes. And tourism, I assume, is sufficient to provide you the capital you need for imports. Sounds legit. You still need a shipping industry...

EDIT: Nvm, with 250,000 people it's not that unbelievable.

 

[Piscivore]

SillyString's economy is 100% tourism funded. We even terraformed our island to make it more conducive to that purpose! There's no manufacturing, no agriculture (except for small amounts of local fishing), etc. Practically everything we need is imported.

SillyString has elements of a rentier state, in that income is almost entirely derived from foreign countries and, to some extent, foreign access rights. At the same time, though, that income goes to the people (in the form of their Dot, an internally owned and managed hotel) instead of the national government. The government is funded relatively minimally, through taxes and some foreign deals. As a result, there's a genuine and inclusive political process that is lacking in the traditional rentier state.

It also has corporate elements - there is no such thing as a corporation or company, legally speaking, and no distinction between private business and public government. If you work or live somewhere, you own a share in that place and have the right to vote on any and all matters that come before it. Similarly, anyone who pays taxes to a sphere of government (from small, local Curves to the entire String) has a right to vote on everything - and in fact, "paying taxes to the String" is our definition of a citizen.

It's definitely an unusual setup, though, and I recognize that.

I like this; it is very similar to what I've got worked up; no one personally owns real estate, it is only owned collectively by one's karass, or in some cases an alliance of karasses according to a mutually agreed upon contract moderated by an independent third karass. One's karass will typically collectively own and maintain one or more servers, a number of laptops, bicycles, and electric vehicles, one or more habitations, lab spaces, warehouses, in some cases small factories.

 

[Felis]

SillyString's economy is 100% tourism funded. We even terraformed our island to make it more conducive to that purpose! There's no manufacturing, no agriculture (except for small amounts of local fishing), etc. Practically everything we need is imported.

SillyString has elements of a rentier state, in that income is almost entirely derived from foreign countries and, to some extent, foreign access rights. At the same time, though, that income goes to the people (in the form of their Dot, an internally owned and managed hotel) instead of the national government. The government is funded relatively minimally, through taxes and some foreign deals. As a result, there's a genuine and inclusive political process that is lacking in the traditional rentier state.

It also has corporate elements - there is no such thing as a corporation or company, legally speaking, and no distinction between private business and public government. If you work or live somewhere, you own a share in that place and have the right to vote on any and all matters that come before it. Similarly, anyone who pays taxes to a sphere of government (from small, local Curves to the entire String) has a right to vote on everything - and in fact, "paying taxes to the String" is our definition of a citizen.

It's definitely an unusual setup, though, and I recognize that.

I like this; it is very similar to what I've got worked up; no one personally owns real estate, it is only owned collectively by one's karass, or in some cases an alliance of karasses according to a mutually agreed upon contract moderated by an independent third karass. One's karass will typically collectively own and maintain one or more servers, a number of laptops, bicycles, and electric vehicles, one or more habitations, lab spaces, warehouses, in some cases small factories.

What if one's karass is entirely dead?

 

[Piscivore]

What if one's karass is entirely dead?

Average size of a karass is 250, minimum would be around 100. In the event something catastrophic happened the surviving members would arrange to join another.

Maximum size is around 1500. Larger than that and internal social cohesiveness starts to fall apart.

 

[Felis]

What if one's karass is entirely dead?

Average size of a karass is 250, minimum would be around 100. In the event something catastrophic happened the surviving members would arrange to join another.

Maximum size is around 1500. Larger than that and internal social cohesiveness starts to fall apart.

So it's nigh impossible and if it did happen, they'd arrange the join another.

 

[Piscivore]

What if one's karass is entirely dead?

Average size of a karass is 250, minimum would be around 100. In the event something catastrophic happened the surviving members would arrange to join another.

Maximum size is around 1500. Larger than that and internal social cohesiveness starts to fall apart.

So it's nigh impossible and if it did happen, they'd arrange the join another.

Essentially, yes. The karass system formed during the plagues that wreaked havoc with the original colonists, lessening the importance of blood relations and laying the groundwork for intra- and inter-group flexibility and mobility.

 

[Kannex]

This system is very close to that of Italian Fascism. Very corporatist in nature.

 

[Piscivore]

This system is very close to that of Italian Fascism. Very corporatist in nature.

I definitely had Renaissance Italy in mind for part of it.

 

[SillyString]

So basically, you have some kind of quasi-utopian, corporatist soviet of communes. And tourism, I assume, is sufficient to provide you the capital you need for imports. Sounds legit. You still need a shipping industry...

EDIT: Nvm, with 250,000 people it's not that unbelievable.

That's not far off. And yes, I deliberately went for a very low population and a small area of land. The terraforming I'm asserting is very far-fetched for anything bigger than a small island (and not exactly obviously plausible even for that), and any larger of a population starts to strain the model.

SS can get away with not having full hospitals, for example, because its smaller medical centers are equipped and trained to deal with short-term care - from preventative care like checkups and vaccinations, to emergency triage. But for long term care, we airlift stabilized patients to hospitals in nearby countries with whom we have made medical arrangements. This works for a small, relatively healthy population, but in any kind of mass casualty event (a natural disaster, a disease, a major explosion, etc), or even just a larger, sicklier population, it would be absolutely untenable.

As for shipping, I suppose it might qualify as an industry. It's not, by and large, terribly profitable, and it's nearly exclusively imports. Goods considered staples or basic items (which can appear oddly designated, at times, but totally make sense) are purchased by the broader government and then sold, while luxury items are arranged somewhat more privately (and sometimes even by an individual). We have an airport and a shipping dock, but own neither planes nor boats. All methods of transportation, as well as their crew, are provided by our trading partners.