Outrage over WA Cult

As a sidenote, I cannot unendorse A Lost Soul.

This is because that naturally, I did not endorse him to begin with, and that shall remain.
 
SillyString:
To weigh in on the legality issue, I'm not convinced that the actions in question are illegal. The Bill of Rights establishes all nations' sovereign right to give and withhold endorsements with the intent of protecting against a government. It keeps anybody from finding themselves in TRR or in court for not endorsing members of the government. And more broadly, I'm of the opinion that people who are neither admins nor government officials cannot violate the bill of rights.

What this was was against the spirit of the BoR, and definitely counter to the type of community we've built up. Threatening and attempting to extort votes out of people is in no way part of TNP's culture. Additionally, I have concerns that if this sort of thing is the first thing new nations are exposed to in TNP, it will give them wrong impressions about the sort of environment we foster.
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The best way to put what I think.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
Clearly, A Lost Soul has gone too far with his endorsement gathering project. Perhaps if he had been more cooperative and less aggressive in his efforts, his group would have seen more success. Intimidation and coercion have little place in our waters, as he is now finding. ALS's endorsement count has been dropping like a rock ever since this went public. Let this incident be an example of how capable TNP is of setting its own disputes with no need for legal action.
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Whilst I'm in agreement with SillyString, I have to definitely add my agreement to the above.

Beyond that, this is the type of behaviour that any prospective group should avoid.
 
Lord Ravenclaw:
Crushing Our Enemies:
Clearly, A Lost Soul has gone too far with his endorsement gathering project. Perhaps if he had been more cooperative and less aggressive in his efforts, his group would have seen more success. Intimidation and coercion have little place in our waters, as he is now finding. ALS's endorsement count has been dropping like a rock ever since this went public. Let this incident be an example of how capable TNP is of setting its own disputes with no need for legal action.
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Whilst I'm in agreement with SillyString, I have to definitely add my agreement to the above.

Beyond that, this is the type of behaviour that any prospective group should avoid.
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I concur with Raven and COE.
 
Nessuno:
What the hell is going on? I went to sleep and when i wake up Alunya and Guslantis withdraw their endorsement.
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Your still endorsing A Lost Soul. If you are not update with what has been happening, I suggest you read through this thread.
 
You guys are trying to intimidate me into giving up rule 2. Stop preaching s*** when you are doing the very things you stand against.
 
A Lost Soul:
You guys are trying to intimidate me into giving up rule 2. Stop preaching s*** when you are doing the very things you stand against.
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There is no intimidation from this community, collectively, towards you. Only express disappoint on your first impression in this region.
 
Andrew:
A Lost Soul:
You guys are trying to intimidate me into giving up rule 2. Stop preaching s*** when you are doing the very things you stand against.
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There is no intimidation from this community, collectively, towards you. Only express disappoint on your first impression in this region.
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why are you all unendorsing me then? isn't that the same tactic the cult used?
 
A Lost Soul:
Andrew:
A Lost Soul:
You guys are trying to intimidate me into giving up rule 2. Stop preaching s*** when you are doing the very things you stand against.
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There is no intimidation from this community, collectively, towards you. Only express disappoint on your first impression in this region.
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why are you all unendorsing me then? isn't that the same tactic the cult used?
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The community expressed dislike of your first impression is shown by this campaign of unendorsing you. However, I do understand what you mean when you say it looks like intimidation.

Some people are following others because they don't want to lose endorsements. But that isn't intimidation. Intimidation is to frighten or overawe (someone), especially in order to make them do what one wants. There has been no terrorizing or harassment from people whom say they will un-endorse you and anyone who continues to endorse you.
 
Nessuno:
What the hell is going on? I went to sleep and when i wake up Alunya and Guslantis withdraw their endorsement.
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You endorsed A Lost Soul. As Andrew said, read over this thread to see why. You really should, you'll be surprised.

At the moment the public opinion is very clearly against A Lost Soul and if you continue to support him, I may need to withdraw my endorsement as well.
 
A Lost Soul:
Andrew:
A Lost Soul:
You guys are trying to intimidate me into giving up rule 2. Stop preaching s*** when you are doing the very things you stand against.
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There is no intimidation from this community, collectively, towards you. Only express disappoint on your first impression in this region.
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why are you all unendorsing me then? isn't that the same tactic the cult used?
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Endorsements have very simplistic "tactics" - give, don't give, or give and take away.

Your use of the second and third ones was based on the strategy of threatening, extorting, and intimidating people into doing what you wanted them to do. The mass unendorsement you are currently facing is based on the strategy of "wow, this guy is being a jerk, I don't really want to be associated with that".

It is the underlying strategies which are or are not problematic, and yours most definitely is.
 
Endorsements is a gift, it is under no circumstances a given and it should not be used as a 'weapon' nor be part of a tactic by any group
 
Syrixia:
Nessuno:
What the hell is going on? I went to sleep and when i wake up Alunya and Guslantis withdraw their endorsement.
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You endorsed A Lost Soul. As Andrew said, read over this thread to see why. You really should, you'll be surprised.

At the moment the public opinion is very clearly against A Lost Soul and if you continue to support him, I may need to withdraw my endorsement as well.
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Now this is just as intimidatory as anything this cult did/was doing/tried to do, tbh.
 
Nierr:
Syrixia:
Nessuno:
What the hell is going on? I went to sleep and when i wake up Alunya and Guslantis withdraw their endorsement.
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You endorsed A Lost Soul. As Andrew said, read over this thread to see why. You really should, you'll be surprised.

At the moment the public opinion is very clearly against A Lost Soul and if you continue to support him, I may need to withdraw my endorsement as well.
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Now this is just as intimidatory as anything this cult did/was doing/tried to do, tbh.
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I disagree. Endorsements are meant to express approval of a nation. Syrixia is clearly exercising his right to endorse, or not endorse, whoever he so wants.
 
He - and others, to be fair to Syrixia, it's not just him - are demanding someone unendorse someone or they will unendorse them.

That's pretty much exactly the same thing as this 'WA Cult' was doing, tbh.
 
I feel that I should point out this post that I made on the RMB:
Darcania:
A Lost Soul:
you and my other mentor both turned on your own mentee. You are traitors.
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I doubt this will make much of a difference, but I'd like to state the following:

SillyString recommended (though I, unfortunately, misinterpreted her recommendations as instructions) that I first try to persuade you about how your actions were unconstitutional, or just mean. As a mentor, it was my solemn duty to try to explain that to you. Unfortunately, I didn't know enough about the laws of TNP (plus, were this whole shebang to go up to a court, it seems it would be 50-50 either way), and I attempted to explain how intimidating nations just was something we shouldn't do as members of TNP.

Unfortunately, you didn't listen, and so I blew the whistle hoping that other people could better explain how the WA Cult was either unconstitutional or against the spirit of TNP. Instead, however, TNP attacked you. I still don't like that they did so (I would much rather they tried to explain it to you, instead). In fact, I refused to withdraw my endorsements of any WA Cult members, even you, until you withdrew your endorsement of me.

It was not my intent to cause this massive ****storm, but it happened.

As I am still your mentor, I would still be happy to answer any questions you may still have. I don't like what you did, but, by now, I really don't care anymore. While you may still be angry at me, I was never angry with you, simply uncomfortable with the actions you were doing.

At this point, the simple thing would be to let this storm blow over. TNP is "the land of 99 chances, and then another one" (according to Madjack in IRC just now), and if you show improvement, people will doubtless notice.

Anyway, I just wanted to say something, so there we go.
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Nierr:
He - and others, to be fair to Syrixia, it's not just him - are demanding someone unendorse someone or they will unendorse them.

That's pretty much exactly the same thing as this 'WA Cult' was doing, tbh.
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I understand that. I was just pointing out that it is the nation's right to unendorse whoever they want. At least he wasn't using intimidating tactics to get people to unendorse someone. I believe he meant that if you agree with A Lost Soul, you should really take a look at the facts. :P
 
Nierr:
Syrixia:
Nessuno:
What the hell is going on? I went to sleep and when i wake up Alunya and Guslantis withdraw their endorsement.
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You endorsed A Lost Soul. As Andrew said, read over this thread to see why. You really should, you'll be surprised.

At the moment the public opinion is very clearly against A Lost Soul and if you continue to support him, I may need to withdraw my endorsement as well.
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Now this is just as intimidatory as anything this cult did/was doing/tried to do, tbh.
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:agree:

If you personally disagree with someone, it's your choice. But you shouldn't be pressured to endorse OR unendorse someone because someone else wants you to.

It's not that hard to gain endorsements in TNP if you're willing to put the work of actually telegramming other nations in. Something simple like, "Hello, I've endorsed you, will you return the favor." That garners a lot of return endos.
 
I don't think it's bad to run an unendorsement campaign against A lost soul, politely requesting that nations endorsing him unendorse him. Full disclosure: I did that, and rather effectively. I've since stopped as I think the point has been made.

I do think it's bad, and pretty much identical to what he was doing, to tell people you will unendorse them or otherwise threaten them in some way (e.g., "I will ______") if they don't unendorse him. I've had a few people reply to my unendo campaign saying they won't unendorse him and my response was basically fair enough, your endo is your own. The point here is that people should be able to do whatever they want with their endos.
 
Gladio:
So the WA cult has finally been disbanded ? Good ridance.
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I'm not so sure. I have recently received a telegram from a Lost Soul asking for his endorsement I withdrew.
 
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