SC Admission of COE

Romanoffia

Romanoffia

Garde à l'eau!
The Security Council has approved an application by Crushing Our Enemies, aka COE to join the Security Council. The vote was 5-1 in favor with one abstention.

Discussion will now begin.
 
Romanoffia:
The Security Council has approved an application by Crushing Our Enemies, aka COE to join the Security Council. The vote was 5-1 in favor with one abstention.

Discussion will now begin.
Click to expand...
Did the Security Council have any concerns with admitting a senior official -- sorry, I'm not sure of the rank -- of The Black Hawks to a body responsible for in-game security?

I'm personally a little hesitant to vote in favor. We could eventually find ourselves in a situation in which COE has to take the Delegacy. Given the participation of other senior Black Hawks in coups d'etat -- Mallorea and Riva assisting Milograd in The South Pacific, Jakker plotting to perpetrate a coup against Osiris throughout 2012-2013 -- I can't help but take a step back here and consider what we're doing.
 
Cormac:
Romanoffia:
The Security Council has approved an application by Crushing Our Enemies, aka COE to join the Security Council. The vote was 5-1 in favor with one abstention.

Discussion will now begin.
Click to expand...
Did the Security Council have any concerns with admitting a senior official -- sorry, I'm not sure of the rank -- of The Black Hawks to a body responsible for in-game security?

I'm personally a little hesitant to vote in favor. We could eventually find ourselves in a situation in which COE has to take the Delegacy. Given the participation of other senior Black Hawks in coups d'etat -- Mallorea and Riva assisting Milograd in The South Pacific, Jakker plotting to perpetrate a coup against Osiris throughout 2012-2013 -- I can't help but take a step back here and consider what we're doing.
Click to expand...

Guilt by association is rarely so transparently incorrect. There are many pieces of information one can build about someone's character. For Jakker, Mall, and indeed Milograd, there are many indications of their attitudes which are quite different for COE. From his tone and thoughts on the NS forums to the conscientious manner in which he has been involved in TNP, the gap is vast. Ultimately, I am confident that COE is unlikely to play "for the lulz" and is more interested in a higher level sort of game than "King of the Hill" in TNP.

All that said, thank you Cormac for giving me the opportunity to say this.

On a final note, I would be concerned were Jakker or Mall to apply to join or Blue Wolf II apply to rejoin the institution :P
 
I share Cormac's reasoned concerns and whilst I do respect COE, I will not be in favour of his election to our Security Council.

On the matter of guilt by association, I do think that such associations should be taken into consideration as an indication of 'hobbies'...
 
On the contrary, I think that the work that COE has put into the region is admirable, and he has my full trust, as well as the rest of the SC, as their vote shows.

So I support COE's admission to the S.C.

~ Tomb
 
We trusted COE with the position of Vice Delegate. I see no issue admitting him to the Security Council. He as served our region admirably as a speaker, minister, and VD and I expect he will continue to do the same as a councillor.
 
During all of his time in TNP, COE has acted with nothing but honesty and integrity. He has served admirably as Speaker, Chief Justice, and Vice Delegate, and has drafted several important improvements to the Constibillocode. He has dedicated a significant amount of time, and effort, and love, to making this region a better place.

I am absolutely confident that, should COE ever be in the position of having to take the delegacy, he will do so as thoughtfully and conscientiously as he has always carried out his duties here. And I am equally confident that, should he ever be in the position of being able to take the delegacy illegally, he will not do so.

TNP was one of the first GCRs to move past a deep paranoia about raiders, and to shed the impulse to condemn all for fear of what a few might do. Let's not regress to a 2005 mindset. Judge people for themselves, for their actions - don't condemn based on the faults of another.

Suffice it to say, I am fully in favor of his admission.

Edit: In addition, I think COE's intentions can be seen clearly in his actions following McM's resignation. He wasted no time in helping get the word out to our WA nations to endorse me and Roman, and he was instrumental in communicating with our friends and allies to coordinate the gigantic military assistance we have seen so far - even without being on the SC. If he had anything less than complete respect for the rule of law and for TNP itself, he would have yawned and sat it out.
 
I should also note that I was elected Delegate of Osiris while being a member of the Council of the Hawks. COE has my trust, and he's never given me a reason to doubt that trust. I support COE.
 
I give my full support to COE, I have seen nothing that would make me question his dedication and loyalty to TNP.
 
SillyString:
During all of his time in TNP, COE has acted with nothing but honesty and integrity. He has served admirably as Speaker, Chief Justice, and Vice Delegate, and has drafted several important improvements to the Constibillocode. He has dedicated a significant amount of time, and effort, and love, to making this region a better place.

I am absolutely confident that, should COE ever be in the position of having to take the delegacy, he will do so as thoughtfully and conscientiously as he has always carried out his duties here. And I am equally confident that, should he ever be in the position of being able to take the delegacy illegally, he will not do so.

TNP was one of the first GCRs to move past a deep paranoia about raiders, and to shed the impulse to condemn all for fear of what a few might do. Let's not regress to a 2005 mindset. Judge people for themselves, for their actions - don't condemn based on the faults of another.

Suffice it to say, I am fully in favor of his admission.

Edit: In addition, I think COE's intentions can be seen clearly in his actions following McM's resignation. He wasted no time in helping get the word out to our WA nations to endorse me and Roman, and he was instrumental in communicating with our friends and allies to coordinate the gigantic military assistance we have seen so far - even without being on the SC. If he had anything less than complete respect for the rule of law and for TNP itself, he would have yawned and sat it out.
Click to expand...
:agree:

I also support COE for admission to the SC.
 
First, I'm not declaring COE guilty of anything, by association or otherwise, nor am I negating the contributions he has already made. There's no need for the defensiveness. Is the Regional Assembly supposed to provide oversight over this process and raise legitimate questions, or are we just supposed to be a rubber stamp? Raising questions about high ranking involvement in a raider region involved in other coups d'etat in other Feeders and Sinkers would seem, to me, a responsible course of action when dealing with an in-game security institution.

I wish the Regional Assembly had been this concerned about guilt by association when Blue Wolf and Gaspo were leading a witch hunt against defenders in TNP because of their association with Ravania in 2013.

In any event, to address the constant refrain about how much COE has contributed: Yes, he has contributed a lot. So did Lemon Love (Jakker), from December 2011 until he was caught and banned in June 2013. Just off the top of my head, he served in the elected legislature, as Vizier of Culture, and on the Council of Ma'at (Osiris' security council), all before making a run at the Osiran Delegacy in June 2013 and having his identity unmasked just days before voting began. Building trust and getting elected Delegate is the name of the coup d'etat game these days. I'm not necessarily saying that is what COE is doing, but I do think it warrants more deliberating than a constant refrain of "look how much he's done already." He has done a lot, and everyone appreciates it, but it's not our fault that one of his fellow Black Hawks spent two years doing a lot in another GCR just to be able to eventually get elected Delegate and overthrow its government.
 
Cormac:
First, I'm not declaring COE guilty of anything, by association or otherwise, nor am I negating the contributions he has already made. There's no need for the defensiveness. Is the Regional Assembly supposed to provide oversight over this process and raise legitimate questions, or are we just supposed to be a rubber stamp? Raising questions about high ranking involvement in a raider region involved in other coups d'etat in other Feeders and Sinkers would seem, to me, a responsible course of action when dealing with an in-game security institution.

I wish the Regional Assembly had been this concerned about guilt by association when Blue Wolf and Gaspo were leading a witch hunt against defenders in TNP because of their association with Ravania in 2013.

In any event, to address the constant refrain about how much COE has contributed: Yes, he has contributed a lot. So did Lemon Love (Jakker), from December 2011 until he was caught and banned in June 2013. Just off the top of my head, he served in the elected legislature, as Vizier of Culture, and on the Council of Ma'at (Osiris' security council), all before making a run at the Osiran Delegacy in June 2013 and having his identity unmasked just days before voting began. Building trust and getting elected Delegate is the name of the coup d'etat game these days. I'm not necessarily saying that is what COE is doing, but I do think it warrants more deliberating than a constant refrain of "look how much he's done already." He has done a lot, and everyone appreciates it, but it's not our fault that one of his fellow Black Hawks spent two years doing a lot in another GCR just to be able to eventually get elected Delegate and overthrow its government.
Click to expand...
While I don't necessarily agree with everything in this post, I think Cormac's point should at least be acknowledged. I would prefer some discussion and not having dissenting opinions being shut out as opposed to the reverse.
 
Funkadelia:
While I don't necessarily agree with everything in this post, I think Cormac's point should at least be acknowledged. I would prefer some discussion and not having dissenting opinions being shut out as opposed to the reverse.
Click to expand...
How are dissenting opinions being shut out exactly?
 
This wasn't great either, when COE was trying to get me to not drop out of the race for justice because he thought I would be a yes man for the other justices:

[20:26] <COE> Funk will not do a better job. Unlike the RA, the court works best when like-minded people share the bench
[20:26] <COE> Cause then one can write the opinion, and the other two can give it a once over with no major problems
[20:27] <COE> Funk will probably rock the boat, which means delays and inferior judgment
Click to expand...
 
Funkadelia:
I would prefer some discussion and not having dissenting opinions being shut out as opposed to the reverse.
Click to expand...
SOP.

Cormac:
Did the Security Council have any concerns with admitting a senior official of The Black Hawks to a body responsible for in-game security?
Click to expand...
Apparently not. I share your concerns though. Guilt by association may not be fair, but it shouldn't be dismissed either (considering the association). Granted, not everyone takes the Mall approach of: 'I'll purge you all if given the chance.' Although, that is at least honest and funny as hell. Belschaft's attempt to run for Delegate was a close second though. :rofl:

Knowing TNP, COE will be on the SC because he has the right endorsements. Of course, he will be at the bottom of the line of succession. But since his stint as VD (and his twin Silly String's tenure), the SC has been decimated. So, if that continues, he'd be bumped up in the queue. Conspiracy theorists may see something there, but that's another ball of wax. At the very least, I'll be abstaining on this.
 
I would consider it ill form to post in support of a motion like this one, where I clearly have a material interest in the outcome. I am, however, available and willing to answer any questions the members of the RA have for me regarding my application to the Security Council in this thread.
 
Out of seven sc members one voted against and one abstained. That is 28% not in favour. It would be good to hear those concerns here before we vote.
 
The SC thread is public, and can be accessed here.

Grosse voted against because he does not like COE. Mystery solved.

I motion to vote.
 
SillyString:
The SC thread is public, and can be accessed here.

Grosse voted against because he does not like COE. Mystery solved.

I motion to vote.
Click to expand...
One again Silly Strng, do not tewll me what to say or what to think, much less put words in my mouth. Please edit your post, or I shall report it for moderation.

My objection to COE is a demonstrated incapacity in my views to work collegiality from what I have observed in the context of the Security Council and how it operates. In part, he has demonstrated to me that he fails to appreciate the potential consequences of his actions, going back to his tenure as Speaker.

That is a legitimate concern, and I am not satified that he has properly or completely addressed it.

I will be voting nay in the RA as well.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
In part, he has demonstrated to me that he fails to appreciate the potential consequences of his actions, going back to his tenure as Speaker.

That is a legitimate concern, and I am not satified that he has properly or completely addressed it.
Click to expand...
I can't wait until I reapply to the Security Council. The discussion then will be at least 10 times more fun, in this regard. :P
 
Blue Wolf II:
Grosseschnauzer:
In part, he has demonstrated to me that he fails to appreciate the potential consequences of his actions, going back to his tenure as Speaker.

That is a legitimate concern, and I am not satified that he has properly or completely addressed it.
Click to expand...
I can't wait until I reapply to the Security Council. The discussion then will be at least 10 times more fun, in this regard. :P
Click to expand...

:shock:
 
Grosseschnauzer:
One again Silly Strng, do not tewll me what to say or what to think, much less put words in my mouth. Please edit your post, or I shall report it for moderation.

My objection to COE is a demonstrated incapacity in my views to work collegiality from what I have observed in the context of the Security Council and how it operates. In part, he has demonstrated to me that he fails to appreciate the potential consequences of his actions, going back to his tenure as Speaker.

That is a legitimate concern, and I am not satified that he has properly or completely addressed it.

I will be voting nay in the RA as well.
Click to expand...
Isn't that just a long winded way of saying you don't like him? Why demand the edit for something that is plainly true?
 
Blue Wolf II:
Grosseschnauzer:
In part, he has demonstrated to me that he fails to appreciate the potential consequences of his actions, going back to his tenure as Speaker.

That is a legitimate concern, and I am not satified that he has properly or completely addressed it.
Click to expand...
I can't wait until I reapply to the Security Council. The discussion then will be at least 10 times more fun, in this regard. :P
Click to expand...
[Humour/Parody/Irony Alert!]


That would probably be because Schnauzers were originally bred to guard livestock from Wolves. And, as we all know, unlike Wolves, Schnauzers are hypoallergenic as a general rule. The animosity between Wolves and Schnauzers goes back centuries to the origin of the Schnauzer. Schnauzers are considered to be a rough-coat variety of the Pinscher breed which makes them extremely tenacious. :P

(I see a future Untergang parody in this. :lol: ).
 
Grosseschnauzer:
One again Silly Strng, do not tewll me what to say or what to think, much less put words in my mouth. Please edit your post, or I shall report it for moderation.
Click to expand...
I'm very sorry! I didn't mean to misrepresent your opinion. How's this?

SillyString:
Grosse voted against because he really really does not like COE. Mystery solved.
Click to expand...
:)
 
For the record, I support COE's admission completely. I voted in favour to demonstrate that. I second what others have said - COE's work here has given me no reason whatsoever to doubt his commitment to our legitimate government or to our democratic system of government. Ever since he joined TNP he has worked fiercely to hold our government to account for it's actions (and inaction).

It isn't as though COE has hidden his association with the Black Hawks from us. He never tried to pull the wool over our eyes in that regard. I believe that COE's actions in TNP have proven his dedication to us and that he takes his role here seriously. A comparison could be made between the work of Of Crazed (Southernbellz) in TSP despite his connection to DEN etc, and COE's contribution and loyalty to TNP.

I hope that the Assembly will admit COE to the Security Council.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top