Moving the Embassy Row forum

r3naissanc3r

r3naissanc3r

TNPer
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I have been thinking that we move the "Embassy Row" forum outside of "Delegate's Government". A potential destination could be inside the "Agora".

This is similar to a suggestion (originally by COE I think, supported by many members and eventually implemented by the admin team) when my first term started, that the "Private Media" forum be moved outside of "Delegate's Government". There were two reasons for that move: 1) it had nothing to do with the Delegate's government; and 2) posts there regularly bumped government announcements off the index page (latest active post).

Similar reasons apply for "Embassy Row" as well. Reason 2 is particularly pertinent, especially given how frequently updates from foreign governments are posted in our embassies: It really annoys me when I make an important announcement, only to discover that a minute later it has been masked by "[Month] update". Of course, people can use the active topics function to discover new posts, or they can try to look further inside Delegate's Government. But the issue is, many people don't, and for that large demographic, visibility of topics at the index page is important.

Reason 1 is not as pertinent as it was for Private Media: Embassies do fulfill a governmental function and are under the purview of the Executive Government. However, the material posted in them is not controlled (except post-facto, in the form of moderation) by the Executive Government.

I think Agora would be a good place to move Embassies in, given that it's meant for discussion of NS in general by us and guests. It also makes sense in an RP sense (Embassies in the real-world are located in the same district as government buildings, the main district of the capital, but not necessarily as tightly integrated with the government complex as in TNP). However, if people think other locations are more appropriate, I'd be open to suggestions.
 
My initial reaction to the idea of putting Embassy Row in the Agora was negative, but on second thought I'm warming to the idea.

I would like comments from anyone and everyone interested in this question.

Obviously, I would prefer if comments were clear, on topic, and concise.
 
The Agora has a specific purpose, namely, being the "free speech and expression" area of the region and outside of the organized branches of government. The Embassy Row area, on the contrary, is the clear responsibility of the Executive, as the presence or absence of an embassy is committed to the sole discretion of the Delegate and their appointees. It would be inappropriate to have that area inside the Agora since its mere presence is not consistent with the origins and usages of the Agora.
 
I think embassy row should be its own forum on the main page not a sub forum contained within the agora..if the del doesnt want it to remain in delegates govt forum.
 
PaulWallLibertarian42:
I think embassy row should be its own forum on the main page not a sub forum contained within the agora..if the del doesnt want it to remain in delegates govt forum.
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I disagree. I think we're at about the limit of how many top level boards we can have and not give potential new members information overload.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
The Agora has a specific purpose, namely, being the "free speech and expression" area of the region and outside of the organized branches of government.
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Counter-example: the elections subforum.
Grosseschnauzer:
The Embassy Row area, on the contrary, is the clear responsibility of the Executive, as the presence or absence of an embassy is committed to the sole discretion of the Delegate and their appointees.
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Elections are also the clear responsibility of the executive branch, and is moderated by executive officials (election commissioners).
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
Grosseschnauzer:
The Agora has a specific purpose, namely, being the "free speech and expression" area of the region and outside of the organized branches of government.
Click to expand...
Counter-example: the elections subforum.
Grosseschnauzer:
The Embassy Row area, on the contrary, is the clear responsibility of the Executive, as the presence or absence of an embassy is committed to the sole discretion of the Delegate and their appointees.
Click to expand...
Elections are also the clear responsibility of the executive branch, and is moderated by executive officials (election commissioners).
Click to expand...
Elections are actualy independent of the Executive, the roles are defined by law and not subject to the Delegate's power once appointed. It made sense for them to go into the Agoraa because of the nature of campaigning as free speech, as well as political parties which are also there.
 
I think the main weight ought to be accommodating the wishes of the government. If the elected government wants the Embassies in the Agora, then I cannot see a valid reason to overrule them.

Embassies may be the responsibility of the executive, but they are not part of the executive. Either give them their own area (which I would not support) or put them in the agora.
 
I don't agree that they should be moved to the Agora at all. I feel they are in the governments responsibility and I don't see any significant argument for moving them to the Agora.

I would much prefer that we move it to the index page and keep it in Magicality City. I do not like the sweeping dismissive approach that some administrators take to adding forums to the index page. This should be considered on it's merits, it shouldn't be completely dismissed without considering it. Adding this forum to the index does not mean we are going to add another 10 forums tomorrow.

That said, it is what the Delegate would like and it is his government, so I'd be inclined to say that we should move it.
 
Personally I have no preference between moving it to the Agora and moving it to the index page. I suggested the Agora because the admin team is generally reluctant to add index page forums. But the index page would work just as fine as far as I am concerned.
 
Given a choice only between the Agora and the index page, I would prefer the latter. Embassy Row had been there in the past, and placing it with Magicality City is more appropriate than the other option.
 
I'm interested, also, in the opinions of our users.

I will move Embassy Row to Magicality City on the test forum for your pleasure.

Note that this does add quite a few links to the top level.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
The Agora has a specific purpose, namely, being the "free speech and expression" area of the region and outside of the organized branches of government. The Embassy Row area, on the contrary, is the clear responsibility of the Executive, as the presence or absence of an embassy is committed to the sole discretion of the Delegate and their appointees. It would be inappropriate to have that area inside the Agora since its mere presence is not consistent with the origins and usages of the Agora.
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I'm not sure I agree with that.

Sure, who we have embassies with is at the discretion of the executive, but within those embassies other regions have a greater degree of free speech and expression than they possess elsewhere in TNP, and it is definitely not the executive's job to carefully monitor and control foreign updates. As there is an argument that embassies are sovereign territory of other regions (to an extent limited by board TOUs, of course), there is similarly an argument that embassies proper are outside the organized branches of government and that the Agora would be a good place for them.

I don't think that embassies should be in the Agora, but only as an extension of r3n's reason for not wanting them in the delegate's government. I think embassy threads constantly getting bumped above TNP-centric threads will reduce participation in, for example, elections, and disincentivize people from checking that area of the forum.

Given that most people should have access to most embassies and yet will also want to ignore most of them, I think a main index-level subforum is the only option that won't hurt another area of the board by association.

Edit: Elu, you could reduce the link number by nesting embassies inside a second subforum, and either disallowing posts in the main subforum or allowing it to be used for new embassy requests.
 
I myself don't necessarily mind the links as they don't take up that much space as just text links, but it's something I feel people should keep in mind as they evaluate how this looks.

On the other hand it'd be cool if the Embassy board itself were used as it's all shiny :P
 
The links can be easily avoided without javascript (which I prefer to keep to a minimum), by making the Embassy board a "hidden category" and having a re-direct link on the main page. That's the same thing we do with archives.
 
r3naissanc3r:
The links can be easily avoided without javascript (which I prefer to keep to a minimum), by making the Embassy board a "hidden category" and having a re-direct link on the main page. That's the same thing we do with archives.
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I like this idea :winner:
 
The so far unstated problem with putting Embassy Row in the Agora is the exact same issue it would create as it does now in the Delegate's Government area -- it would drown out any discussions in the other areas of the Agora from being visible.
That being said, another alternative such as on the main index is preferable given that particular issue.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
The so far unstated problem with putting Embassy Row in the Agora is the exact same issue it would create as it does now in the Delegate's Government area -- it would drown out any discussions in the other areas of the Agora from being visible.
That being said, another alternative such as on the main index is preferable given that particular issue.
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Yes, I see your point there and am inclined to agree with your conclusion.

Anywhere we put it is going to overwhelm, so why not give it its own area?
 
Grosseschnauzer:
The so far unstated problem with putting Embassy Row in the Agora is the exact same issue it would create as it does now in the Delegate's Government area -- it would drown out any discussions in the other areas of the Agora from being visible.
That being said, another alternative such as on the main index is preferable given that particular issue.
Click to expand...
I actually said literally this in my post. :fish:
 
Embassy Row hiding elections seems like a valid concern (though ideally we'd be making Election Central an index-level forum for the duration of elections). So I'd say, let's go with Embassy Row being a "hidden category" redirected to from the index page.
 
As the delegate's government stands now, most of the time when I look at the most recent post, it's not in an embassy anymore - it's some random executive-staff related thread in a forum I can't read.
 
I consider those threads appearing on the index useful, as they can encourage members to join the Executive Staff. And they are certainly better than foreign updates.
 
I think most people seem to be in agreement with your suggestion of moving it to the index - with a couple of people being indifferent. I believe it would be fine to implement this change at this point.
 
Hmm, the re-direct forum has an issue I didn't consider: new topics do not show up at all in the index page.

Given this, I think it's probably better to make Embassy Row a standard index-page forum, instead of a re-direct. There will be many links to subforums, but I personally don't consider that too big of an issue.
 
Actually I personally think it's fine for embassy updates to show up in active topics but not on the index.

What do others think?
 
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