Complaint against Flemingovia

mcmasterdonia

mcmasterdonia

Just like a queef in the wind, so is life
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TNP Nation
McMasterdonia
Name of Complainant: McMasterdonia

Name(s) of Accused: Flemingovia

Date(s) of Alleged Offense(s): September 3 2014 - Ongoing for about a week or so after.

Specific Offense(s): Fraud,

Relevant Excerpts from Legal Code or other Laws:

Section 1.3: Fraud
11. "Election fraud" is defined as the willful deception of citizens with regards to the candidates running, the time and venue of the elections, or the requirements and methods by which one may be eligible to vote or run for office.
12. "Fraud" is defined as an intentional deception, by falsehood or omission, made for some benefit or to damage another individual.

Section 1.7. Conspiracy
22. "Conspiracy" is defined as planning, attempting, or helping to commit any crime under this criminal code.

Bill of Rights:
7. When charged with criminal acts, Nations of The North Pacific shall have a fair, impartial, and public trial before a neutral and impartial judicial officer. In any criminal proceeding, a Nation is presumed innocent unless guilt is proven to the fact finder by reasonably certain evidence. A Nation may be represented by any counsel of the Nation's choosing. No Nation convicted of a crime shall be subject to a punishment disproportionate to that crime.

Summary of Events (What happened, in your own words):

Flemingovia lodged a highly vitriolic and insulting complaint against the honourable nation of McMasterdonia. We know that this was in an attempt to discredit the nation from a possible run for the office of Vice Delegate, in which Flemingovia was a candidate.

Flemingovia willfully deceived nations and potential voters with his complaint and the accusation that the honourable nation of McMasterdonia was a nation who curtailed the rights of voters and citizens as established in the Bill of Rights. Furthermore the accusation of murder most fowl against the nation of Mcmasterdonia is both grievous and offensive and lead the nation of McMasterdonia to have no choice but to decline their nomination for the office of Vice Delegate.

We therefore believe that Flemingovia has committed fraud in his attempt to deceive voters and to make the McMasterdonian nomination dead on arrival. Lastly we believe that it should be inferred from these actions that Flemingovia would have attempted to bring further lies and deception against the nation should it have chosen to run.

Finally we include the reference to the Bill of Rights to remind the Attorney General of our rights to protection. The complaint by Flemingovia was evidently intended to be used to hold a trial by media and public scrutiny rather than an appropriate trial before the courts of law and the honourable justices.

Evidentiary Submissions:
The various complaint docket threads

Comments:
 
Thank you for submitting your complaint. And I aplogize for the two day delay in acknowledging this, I have been dealing with some RL issues, I have been glancing over the forum but not been commenting.

I will look over this complaint and do an internal investigation within the AGs office, looking at any applicable law, intent, etc.

I was reluctant to bring Mr. Flemingovia's self proclaimed "test complaint" to trial for fraudulent reporting and let bygons be bygons...and encouraged him that if he felt mcmasterdonia really did violate his rights or committed a crime under the legal code he was free to pursue it on his own.

However, now that McMasterdonia feels compelled to file a complaint alleging Flemingovia has committed fraud against him as well as election fraud by attempting to smear McMasterdonia with the electorate in any potential Vice Delegate bid, I am forced to reopen the issue.

In the spirit of justice, I will attempt to determine if Flemingovia's "Test complaint" has infact been a crime committed against the State (TNP) and/or the complainant Mr. McMasterdonia.

The AGs office will get back to the Complainant at the conclusion of our investigation.
 
Mr Attorney General,

May I inquire as to the status of the investigation? As I see it all the facts are in the opening post. SillyString nominated me for Vice Delegate and it was obvious that I could not accept with the potential indictment and complaint by Flemjngovia hovering over my head.
 
Mr Attorney General.

It has been more than three weeks since my initial complaint and more than a week since I made an inquiry as to the status of this investigation. I would like to request that some response is given to my initial inquiry. You may contact me my PM, telegram, IRC chat, skype chat, or send an owl.


Changed my mind. I'm going to withdraw this complaint, I am too frustrated with the government inefficiency that has been demonstrated here. I will attempt to handle this matter through suitable third party avenues.
 
Indeed. While the attorney General and his deputies try to find their arse with both hands, perhaps we can sort this quickly and efficiently through the fiqh. I would, of course, recuse myself.
 
flemingovia:
Indeed. While the attorney General and his deputies try to find their arse with both hands, perhaps we can sort this quickly and efficiently through the fiqh. I would, of course, recuse myself.
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Oh, puhleeze. We can still prosecute you anyway. :P

Actually, I think the Fiqh, being a three ring circus in and of itself, would be an interesting place to see this play out or get ausgespielt, whichever happens first. :lol:
 
Romanoffia:
Oh, puhleeze. We can still prosecute you anyway
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I think if the attorneys General went ahead with such a case despite the complainant withdrawing their complaint then just about everyone would see it as a case of malicious prosecution, motivated more by spite than justice.

I suggest you cut your losses and rather than messing about focus on the reasons WHY McM withdrew his complaint.

When an over staffed and underworked ag department cannot advance a simple case in three weeks, or even answer a polite query in one week, something is a bit wrong, no?
 
Last I checked, the AGs office doesnt have to post regular updates -- not to mentiom such could tip off any possible defense. Id like to point out that the recent JAL trials and even H&H was backlogged under former AGs for Months. This case was being actively and aggressivly pursued...we have been discussing it at length and pouring over our tnp library and collecting information and evidence to bring an ironclad case for your satisfaxtion McMasterdonia...the wheels if justice are sometimes rusty and squeaky and turn slow..but they turn nonetheless...if you want to take your complaint to another avenue...the figh..be my guest....but just know we were working on it.
 
Since McM has deigned fit to withdraw his complaint then I am forced to order my deputies to cease and disist actively working this case. And this AGs office considers the matter closed. Thank you for your cooperation.
 
You are not forced to do anything. You can still pursue a complaint even if it is withdrawn by the complainant. You can bring complaints yourself if you believe it is necessary.

Lastly - yes you're right. The AG's office is under no legal obligation to explain or to communicate with the person making a complaint. Just as the Delegate is under no legal obligation to reply to telegrams or to respond to questions on the RMB. However, it is polite and helpful if they do so.
 
Yes, however pursuing something while the complaintant has withdrawn, against the complaintants wishes, and having no complaining witness, at worst I feel the public might percieve the office of the AG would be on a witch hunt to persecute Mr. Flemingovia.

It is no secret that we have had issues in the past and his posts sometimes irks me, and I am sure that I sometimes (or most of the time probably) irk him.

His "test complaint" as he called it for speechlessness - I feel he waa infact trying to troll and embarrass the AGs office and maybe myself in particular, at least that is how I percieved it, I dont know if he intended to harm your reputation in the process Mr. McM or simply used you as a means to an end. I was willing to let bygons be bygons and kindly let the matter die as the original complaint was sorted, though for my personal tastes I feel submitting a false criminal complaint - as in a criminal complaint that has no basis in the legal code and nothing is prsecutable under the criminal code -- in an effort to troll or to just be cute --- should be penalized under "fraud". Anyway, you submitted your complaint against Mr. Flem for fraud against you --- I decided not to prosecute for simply filing a false report as Flem is a popular poster and I didnt want to come off as being a hardass or a spoil sport, but as long as you were making a complaint, I was happy to look into the matter for you.

I have been discussing this case with my deputies and we have been collecting information and evidence. And trying to gage Mr. Flemingovias intent on if his "test complaint" was just that an innocent inquiry or to constitute fraud "intentional deception, by falsehood or omission, made for some benefit or to damage another individual." If his benefit was infact to try and embarrass the AGs office and to troll them, as well as to assinate your character.

Finally, we poured over court documents looking at case law to find presidence in our favor or against, and we found TNP Vs. GOVINDIA, Mr. Flem should be familar as he was defense counsel. Mr. India was found aquitted of charges, the court ruled that satire and humor was protected speech and thus did not constiutute fraud. We this AGs office debated that as it pertained to Mr. Flem, if in this instance if he was using humor and satire, how he may be protected or use it as a defense, and how the Court may percieve any potential indictment, if they would accept or reject, we determined that we should just try our best to get satisfaction for the complaintant McM, and argue the case the best of our ability and put the ball in the court hands (we also discussed the challenges of known Flemingovians on the court and how that may bias things and if we needed to request a THO for the process) we were working on preparing an indictment on your behalf, to show this AGs office is interested in standing up for the citizens of TNP, but then you withdrew your complaint.

I did not want to give updates, in public or even threw PM on the basis, Flemingovia is a very powerful indivdual in TNP and I didnt want his defense to find a way to be tipped off to any prosecutorial strategy or information they posessed until the discovery phase of trial.

Loose lips sink ships, as it were.
 
You are welcome.

My predecessor in the AGs office Gaspo made the rule "complete secrecy" in fact that is still pinned in the back office today, I feel it is important to maintain case integrity and not reveal our information or our cards until it comes out during a trial.
 
PaulWallLibertarian42:
Yes, however pursuing something while the complaintant has withdrawn, against the complaintants wishes, and having no complaining witness, at worst I feel the public might percieve the office of the AG would be on a witch hunt to persecute Mr. Flemingovia.

It is no secret that we have had issues in the past and his posts sometimes irks me, and I am sure that I sometimes (or most of the time probably) irk him.

His "test complaint" as he called it for speechlessness - I feel he waa infact trying to troll and embarrass the AGs office and maybe myself in particular, at least that is how I percieved it, I dont know if he intended to harm your reputation in the process Mr. McM or simply used you as a means to an end. I was willing to let bygons be bygons and kindly let the matter die as the original complaint was sorted, though for my personal tastes I feel submitting a false criminal complaint - as in a criminal complaint that has no basis in the legal code and nothing is prsecutable under the criminal code -- in an effort to troll or to just be cute --- should be penalized under "fraud". Anyway, you submitted your complaint against Mr. Flem for fraud against you --- I decided not to prosecute for simply filing a false report as Flem is a popular poster and I didnt want to come off as being a hardass or a spoil sport, but as long as you were making a complaint, I was happy to look into the matter for you.

I have been discussing this case with my deputies and we have been collecting information and evidence. And trying to gage Mr. Flemingovias intent on if his "test complaint" was just that an innocent inquiry or to constitute fraud "intentional deception, by falsehood or omission, made for some benefit or to damage another individual." If his benefit was infact to try and embarrass the AGs office and to troll them, as well as to assinate your character.

Finally, we poured over court documents looking at case law to find presidence in our favor or against, and we found TNP Vs. GOVINDIA, Mr. Flem should be familar as he was defense counsel. Mr. India was found aquitted of charges, the court ruled that satire and humor was protected speech and thus did not constiutute fraud. We this AGs office debated that as it pertained to Mr. Flem, if in this instance if he was using humor and satire, how he may be protected or use it as a defense, and how the Court may percieve any potential indictment, if they would accept or reject, we determined that we should just try our best to get satisfaction for the complaintant McM, and argue the case the best of our ability and put the ball in the court hands (we also discussed the challenges of known Flemingovians on the court and how that may bias things and if we needed to request a THO for the process) we were working on preparing an indictment on your behalf, to show this AGs office is interested in standing up for the citizens of TNP, but then you withdrew your complaint.

I did not want to give updates, in public or even threw PM on the basis, Flemingovia is a very powerful indivdual in TNP and I didnt want his defense to find a way to be tipped off to any prosecutorial strategy or information they posessed until the discovery phase of trial.

Loose lips sink ships, as it were.
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Hmm. I look forward to the day when the discussions in the ag's office are declassified and we can see how accurate a description that is of the deliberations that have taken place.
 
I think this is a good example why we really do want to go there. PWL and Roman are not going to stop running for political office, and the people deserve to be able to evaluate their past service based on evidence. Without declassification on some kind of time table, there can be no transparency. I think this goes for every public office. Nothing should remain classified forever.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
I think this is a good example why we really do want to go there. PWL and Roman are not going to stop running for political office, and the people deserve to be able to evaluate their past service based on evidence. Without declassification on some kind of time table, there can be no transparency. I think this goes for every public office. Nothing should remain classified forever.
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And people like you will never stop trying to monopolise the government of The North Pacific.

So, what's your point? More political bluster and control by character assassination? That's an old motif and you should be aware that it always, and I mean always backfires, even when you might consider doing it. :lol:

If you want transparency on this particular complaint involving McMasterdonia v. Flemingovia, I'll give you some right now.

My job as an AAG is to prosecute criminal complaints. That, in fact, is the job of anyone who is in the AG Office. That means as a prosecutor, my job is absolutely crucify the accused if at all possible and by using all ethical, moral and otherwise legitimate means legally and constitutionally at a prosecutor's disposal. That is what a prosecutor is supposed to do.

Whether or not a prosecutor thinks or feels an accused individual is guilty or not has absolutely no bearing. A prosecutor can indict a loaf of bread and probably get a conviction of that loaf of bread for not being properly sliced.

Now, in comment on your statement:

PWL and Roman are not going to stop running for political office, and the people deserve to be able to evaluate their past service based on evidence.
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Let me tell you something, I am the absolutely most loyal person this region has probably ever had. My performance of service to and loyalty to The North Pacific is absolutely unquestionable in terms of service to this region.

I, unlike some others, have absolutely no involvement with other regions, nor do I have any divided loyalties as a result of extre-regional involvements. That level of dedication is transparent enough proof of performance in and for The North Pacific.

In fact, I am one of just a few people in The North Pacific (and that number can be counted on just one hand) that has absolutely no 'duality' issues and is only involved in The North Pacific. In fact, some people absolutely hate me for pointing out the fact that I am only involved in The North Pacific and have only been involved in The North Pacific in the most exclusive fashion. Why? Because I only act on behalf of and for the interests of The North Pacific because I have no other loyalties anywhere else.

That single dedication to and exclusive involvement in TNP means that I don't make my decisions based upon divided loyalties with other regions.

That single dedication to and exclusive involvement in TNP is performance enough, especially considering the treatment I get from some people around here.

My loyalty and motivations are exclusively for The North Pacific, first, last and always. That is the very definition of performance.
 
If you read my post, you can see I didn't question your loyalty to TNP. I just think that we shouldn't have to take government officials' word for it that they're doing their jobs. We should be able to see results. In this case, I think that after a suitable waiting period, AG backroom threads should be declassified so that the voters can see what goes on back there, and evaluate candidates for future office accordingly.
 
This is going beyond the scope of the intended purpose of a complaint being filed in the complaint docket thread, and since McM withdrew his complaint, I see no reason for it to remain open, I was simply giving McMasterdonia a little insight that WE WERE taking his complaint seriously, and working on it actively and looking at all applicable TNP laws, and Case laws (court rulings/opinions) and trying to do a thorough job. I am not going to rush to prosecute someone or be bullied into hurrying an investigation, we want to make sure we do the job right the first time. I explained to McM why we didnt give updates because the AGs office fonducts investigations with confidentiality to not compromise it before trial.

As I said since McM withdrew his complaint I see no reason for this thread to remain open. So I am closing it.

For general commentary on the AGs office to hold us accountable, this incident, or myself - please start a new topic in the Agora.

If you feel Myself or my deputies have acted improper then think about filing a review with the court, or submit articles to recall us if you think we arent doing our duty. Thank you.

*locks thread*
 
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