Constitutional name

r3naissanc3r

TNPer
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Do you think TNP should adopt a constitutional name? If yes, what do you think this should be?

Many regions, including the majority of feeder and sinker regions, have adopted a constitutional name for themselves and their governments. We have the New Pacific Order, the Coalition of The South Pacific, the Imperium of The West Pacific (not sure whether this is a constitutional name, but that is how they style themselves), the Realm of Balder, the People's Republic of Lazarus, and the Osiris Fraternal Order. TNP, along with TEP and (as far as I know) TRR are the exceptions.

Constitutional names are important diplomatically, because the current consensus in interregional law is that treaties are between governments of regions, and not between the in-game regions themselves. The distinction becomes salient during periods of upheaval or government transitions.

For example, last April there were two governments claiming the region of The South Pacific: the Coalition of The South Pacific, which had in-game control of the region for the best part of the previous decade, and the SPSR (I do not recall what this stands for), which was established by Milograd and at the time controlled the region. In TNP, our treaty obligations were towards the Coalition government, which we continued to recognize as legitimate and offered our assistance to.

Another example would be Osiris. During the Douria coup in July, we continued to recognize and assisted the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, instead of the regime established by the coupers (I do not recall its name). When in September the Kemetic Republic was dissolved, we interpreted our treaty obligations towards Osiris not to extend to the new government established by Detective Figs.

TNP's constitution does not establish a constitutional name. Instead we usually enter treaties as the "R/region of The North Pacific". This could prove somewhat problematic should we ever lose in-game control of the region (though, at least under current political circumstances, I have no doubt that all of our allies would recognize our claim and come to our aid anyway).

Constitutional names are also culturally significant. They tend to reflect principles the region stands for, and become an integral part of regional identity, similar to the regional flag.
 
No thank you.

We do not need the pretensions of lesser regions. Not do we need an impressive title to prove how hard we are. We do not need to insert italics into our name or any such blandishments to remind other regions that we exist. We are the North Pacific. That is a proud enough title for anyone.
 
r3naissanc3r:
By that reasoning, we also do not need a flag or coat of arms. We can just point people to the region name.
Not quite. I just do not think that we need rebranding.

Although I always thought our coat of arms smacked of insecurity. in the UK it tends to be the case that the more piddling the settlement, the more impressive the robes, chain of office etc and coat of arms that the mayor bears.

It sort of says "we may not be a puissant town, but we got the bling."
 
Yeah, because everyone's doing it let's do it!!!

As Flem said, no thank you. As a former member of TWP, when we did it we had no thought towards other regions "doin' it". To me something like this should be organic and not forced. It's not the end of the world to give ourselves a particular name, but I wouldn't want to create a name just to say we have one.

TNP is arguably the most active feeder from a forum perspective and I don't believe creating a cultural name would add any particular value that we don't already have.
 
Plus, if there was a coup. Our allies know who is in charge at least they should if the government is keeping regular communication. So giving your group a name really isnt nessicary. The allies would or should know who theyve been talking to. And if someone suddenly shows up as a delegate and there was no posted elections. It is reasonable the allies would go wait a minute? And rush to help. No names for government needed.

It has a name already THE GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTH PACIFIC.

I think it is fine as is no need to change. Unless as I said you want to adopt the "order of turtles" thing. Or I came up with a new one "The North Pacifican Kingdom of McMasterdonia". Barring those two considerations I say keep it as is.
 
Elegarth:
A Constitutional Name provides further identity, but is definitely not required
Sure, and it could be argued that "The North Pacific" offers heaps of cultural identity in itself. Associations are made with our current name, a pre cursor of two words offers little in genuine substance. Though it's not the worst idea, I just think TNP's identity is already well founded with its current 'designation'. :)
 
Actually TEP became 'The Confederated East Pacific' and is unofficially called 'The Sovereign East'.

I agree that we should keep it as 'The North Pacific'. We did have 'the North Pacific Directorate' but I believe that was abolished by Manumission.
 
James:
Elegarth:
A Constitutional Name provides further identity, but is definitely not required
Sure, and it could be argued that "The North Pacific" offers heaps of cultural identity in itself. Associations are made with our current name, a pre cursor of two words offers little in genuine substance. Though it's not the worst idea, I just think TNP's identity is already well founded with its current 'designation'. :)
Í never said or implied that the name "The North Pacific" for your government, matching that of your region as well, didn't carry an identity per se. What I meant to say, and perhaps I could have been more clear, is that a name can be used to flavor the identity.... Notice TWP's for example.

Nowhere in my post I am implying that I think the change is needed, or that I don't like "The North Pacific" as both the name of the region and the name of the government.
 
I think our regional identity should be "The North Pacific" and the identity of our government should be "The Government of The North Pacific."

Besides, if other regions are going to be so confused by the lack of an official name as to fail to recognize the legitimate government, then it is a lost cause anyway.

>^,,^<
Alunya (cat)
 
Chasmanthe:
Actually TEP became 'The Confederated East Pacific' and is unofficially called 'The Sovereign East'.
I was quoting TEP's Delegate on that one, who had also confirmed that "The Sovereign East" is indeed not used as a formal name.

Also, I can't seem to find any reference to the "Confederated East Pacific" in the Concordat or (from a cursory skim) any other laws currently in effect, though it is mentioned in some older laws.
 
Elegarth:
James:
Elegarth:
A Constitutional Name provides further identity, but is definitely not required
Sure, and it could be argued that "The North Pacific" offers heaps of cultural identity in itself. Associations are made with our current name, a pre cursor of two words offers little in genuine substance. Though it's not the worst idea, I just think TNP's identity is already well founded with its current 'designation'. :)
Í never said or implied that the name "The North Pacific" for your government, matching that of your region as well, didn't carry an identity per se. What I meant to say, and perhaps I could have been more clear, is that a name can be used to flavor the identity.... Notice TWP's for example.

Nowhere in my post I am implying that I think the change is needed, or that I don't like "The North Pacific" as both the name of the region and the name of the government.
What I stated was simply my opinion, it wasn't meant to come into disrepute with your own point. In fact, it was written in extension to what you said, not against it.

Your defending yourself against someone who was skirting around agreement with you. :P
 
Our very identity as a region is in our name. It unifies us.

When there was a North Pacific Directorate, it was counterbalance by The North Pacific Confederation which was the formal name adopted by the underground that resisted the NPD. The flag came along about that time, too.

Once that was over with, we were The North Pacific then and forevermore.
In other words, it is an application of the K-I-S-S principle.
 
James:
What I stated was simply my opinion, it wasn't meant to come into disrepute with your own point. In fact, it was written in extension to what you said, not against it.

Your defending yourself against someone who was skirting around agreement with you. :P
My bad then. I misunderstood you.
 
Elegarth:
James:
What I stated was simply my opinion, it wasn't meant to come into disrepute with your own point. In fact, it was written in extension to what you said, not against it.

Your defending yourself against someone who was skirting around agreement with you. :P
My bad then. I misunderstood you.
Sure, no problem. :)
 
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