Amend Ch 7.2 of the legal code to correct a mistake.

PaulWallLibertarian42

PaulWallLibertarian42

TNPer
It has come to my attention by reading the legal code that Ch7.2 is improperly numbered and it is so due to mistakes in the language of the flag day Bill.

From The Speaker:
I would note this is not within the Speaker's jurisdiction, I cannot make alterations to resolve such errors as to do so would rob this Assembly of its legislative function. The reason for the said error is due to the Flag Day Bill, clause 1 of which read: "1. Clauses 7 to 11 of Section 7.2 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific are hereby renumbered to 8 to 11, respectively."
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As such I'd like to propose a fix to that section of the code.

A proposal to Amend 7.2 of the legal code:

Section 7.2 of the Legal code concerning holidays is numbered incorrectly. Renumerate the clauses in Section 7.2 accurately to 6-12 respectively.

Section 7.2 of the legal code shall hereby have the clauses numbered approprately to fix a mistake. The clauses shall be Numbered 6-12 respectively.
Futhermore, TURTLES!
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As this is procedural to correct a mistake I motion to vote.
 
I would like to amend this amendment:

a Proposal to Amend 7.2 of the legal code:

Section 7.2 of the legal code shall hereby have the clauses numbered approprately to fix a mistake. The clauses shall be Numbered 6-12 respectfully respectively.
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;)
 
The good thing about the RA is it is all inclusive and anyone is free to participate. It is citizen rulemaking and you do not have to be a career politican or a real paid lawyer. Small retail Shop workers and micro farmers alike can participate in the affairs on thier regional government while having little to no formal education as can former high priests turned curmudgeons
 
As I said in my OP as this is stricly to fix a mistake in the numbering of the clauses by the adoption of the flag day bill and this is attempt to fix the error.

I motion to vote and ask the speaker to determine if formal debate is required or not since this is pretty straightforeward proposal. If formal debate is required i humbly request it be shortened approprately.
 
This bill is in formal debate. Given the objections mentioned (and the lack of debate on this) I don't think it is appropriate to shorten debate on this bill, or skip debate on this bill outright until the mandated five days have passed. A vote will be scheduled after that time period.
 
Who needs the number 8 anyway? Just look at it, it looks like 2 donuts stacked on top of each other. Look for a proposal in the not so near future to strike the offending "8" from all legal documents in The North Pacific. Sometime. Maybeso.
 
I suggest a rider to this act stating that all numbers in TNP shall be written in base 8. that way the offending "two doughnuts on top of each other" digit shall never again be seen on the forum.
 
I would suggest withdrawing this bill, and simply inserting the following clause into some other content-ful piece of legislation:

Other clauses of the Legal Code shall be renumbered as appropriate
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We've done that before and it works well.
 
Who will be doing the renumbering? Or are you stating that whatever is incorrectly numbered today is covered by this clause and we'd need to write a new bill each time a renumbering was required?
 
I pointed out to the speaker, that 7.2 was incorrectly numbered, I assumed the Speaker of the RA is the one who edits the constibillicode when ever a change is enacted and signed into or otherwise becomes a law. If I am in error please correct me.

The speakers response is quoted in the OP, that he could not change the mistake due to it being purposeful due to how the flag day bill was written, apparently before voting on it, the RA dropped the ball again, and did not check to make sure it would have numbered the clauses correctly. The speaker could not correct this clerical error as it would "rob the RA of its legislative function" which I took to mean if the mistake is to be corrected a amendment to fix it must be proposed and voted on, which I did. I am under the impression if this proposal passes, the Delegate would have no issue approving it, and the speaker would enact it by correcting the numbered clauses accordingly. Again if I am wrong please correct me.

So Yes, Mr. Punk D, per the Speakers statements, I am left under the impression any time there is a clerical, numeration, grammatical, or any other type of writing mistake, if we want it fixed, it is up to the RA to propose an amendment to fix it, rather than whoever is in charge of updating the constibillicodes to fix the mistake. I would have hoped when a bill was being proposed someone would have made sure all the "i"'s were dotted and "t's" crossed before voting on and enacting the laws. But I guess that is not the case. And mistakes happen, I do think it is a little silly to have to propose an amendment every time to fix a clerical error, but it is what it is.
 
Currently Chapter 7.2 of the legal code reads thusly:
Section 7.2: Holidays
6. The first of January shall be known as Remembrance Day, and shall provide an occasion for Nations to remember those players who have left the region and the game of Nationstates.
7. The twenty-sixth of April shall be Flag Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the adoption of the Flag of The North Pacific.
8. The twenty-sixth of May shall be Manumission Day, and shall commemorate the end of the delegacy of Pixiedance, and celebrate the return of a democratic government to the region.
8. The seventh of July shall be Constitution Day, and shall commemorate the ratification of the Constitution of the North Pacific.
9. The twenty-eighth of July shall be Liberation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the overthrow of Great Bight and return of a native government to the region.
10. The thirteenth of November shall be Creation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of Nationstates; and provide an opportunity to extend fellowship throughout the NationStates communities.
11. The twenty-third of November shall be Founders' Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of the first official forum of The North Pacific, and through it the community which has kept The North Pacific as the preeminent region in Nationstates.
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All my proposal would do is this:
Section 7.2: Holidays
6. The first of January shall be known as Remembrance Day, and shall provide an occasion for Nations to remember those players who have left the region and the game of Nationstates.
7. The twenty-sixth of April shall be Flag Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the adoption of the Flag of The North Pacific.
8. The twenty-sixth of May shall be Manumission Day, and shall commemorate the end of the delegacy of Pixiedance, and celebrate the return of a democratic government to the region.
9. The seventh of July shall be Constitution Day, and shall commemorate the ratification of the Constitution of the North Pacific.
10. The twenty-eighth of July shall be Liberation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the overthrow of Great Bight and return of a native government to the region.
11. The thirteenth of November shall be Creation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of Nationstates; and provide an opportunity to extend fellowship throughout the NationStates communities.
12. The twenty-third of November shall be Founders' Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of the first official forum of The North Pacific, and through it the community which has kept The North Pacific as the preeminent region in Nationstates.
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Bold Italics reflect the change.

MAGIC! Would remove the double 8's and number the clauses based on basic commonsense every day numbering.

Apparently Flemingovia is being obstuctionists and likes the double 8's for some strange reason.
 
Yes the Court previously ruled the Speaker couldn't update minor edits. I was seeking clarification from Justice String because her suggestion does not seem congruent with that court ruling. The suggestions seems similar to the spirit of what the court previously ruled unconstitutional.
 
Saying "Ah, I spotted an error. Lemme just go change that now," is a very different thing than "Ah, the RA has passed a bill giving me explicit instructions to change X. I will go implement that bill." There is no possible way that the latter could violate the ruling on the minor error clause. The entire spirit behind that ruling is that the RA gets to tell the Speaker how to change the legal code, and that is what the RA is doing with this bill.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
Saying "Ah, I spotted an error. Lemme just go change that now," is a very different thing than "Ah, the RA has passed a bill giving me explicit instructions to change X. I will go implement that bill." There is no possible way that the latter could violate the ruling on the minor error clause. The entire spirit behind that ruling is that the RA gets to tell the Speaker how to change the legal code, and that is what the RA is doing with this bill.
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I agree.

But you would agree that the suggestion below is more "Ah,I spotted an error" than "Ah the RA passed a bill giving me explicit instructions"

Other clauses of the Legal Code shall be renumbered as appropriate
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I dont think r3n's flag day bill meant to change 7.2 to have two clauses numbered 8 in it. It was an oversite on his part and all the RA who voted for it, including me who didnt double check to make sure the renumeration was stated correctly.

Surely though the Speaker or whoever updates the constibillicode should have the right to edit the constibillicode to fix grammatical and number sequencing errors without the need of the RA to have to vote on it. As that is currently not the procedure, I as an RA member introduced the proposal to fix the misnumbering, that I feel was done in error not intentional. If I am wrong and R3n meant the double 8 to show up in his flag day bill I welcome him to comment and correct me.
 
punk d:
Crushing Our Enemies:
Saying "Ah, I spotted an error. Lemme just go change that now," is a very different thing than "Ah, the RA has passed a bill giving me explicit instructions to change X. I will go implement that bill." There is no possible way that the latter could violate the ruling on the minor error clause. The entire spirit behind that ruling is that the RA gets to tell the Speaker how to change the legal code, and that is what the RA is doing with this bill.
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I agree.

But you would agree that the suggestion below is more "Ah,I spotted an error" than "Ah the RA passed a bill giving me explicit instructions"

Other clauses of the Legal Code shall be renumbered as appropriate
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I would argue that the phrase "as appropriate" has, though long and constant usage, because a phrase meaning to number the clauses consecutively and in order. It's been a standard inclusion in many bills over many months.
 
PaulWallLibertarian42:
If I am wrong and R3n meant the double 8 to show up in his flag day bill I welcome him to comment and correct me.
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No, it was not intended. As you said it was an oversight, which should be corrected.
 
In all. Seriousness, we are in a sorry state as a region if we are in such thrall to the precise wording of the law that need to pass legislation to correct an obvious and glaring clerical error.

Am I the only one who can see this?
 
flemingovia:
In all. Seriousness, we are in a sorry state as a region if we are in such thrall to the precise wording of the law that need to pass legislation to correct an obvious and glaring clerical error.

Am I the only one who can see this?
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Oh no. I agree. I find it quite rediculous I have to propose this. Someone cant just go in and label it 6,7,8,9,ect. I could see going in willynilly and making drastic unauthorized changes..integrity ect. But come on? To fix a numbering mistake? I dont think fixing the number will have serious implications on undermining the integrity or authenticity of the constibillicode.

P.s. the number 8 is the devil!
 
I would agree, Flem.

Perhaps the solution is to write a minor edit clause into the Constitution. That way, the court will be unable to invalidate it.
 
punk d:
I would agree, Flem.

Perhaps the solution is to write a minor edit clause into the Constitution. That way, the court will be unable to invalidate it.
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so what I am hearing is this:

our officials are in such a state of thrall that they dare not correct a simple clerical error without written permission.

or

Our laws are so badly written that they forbid, at the moment, the correcting of errors.

or

Some of our people are such barrack-room-lawyers that they would leap down the throat of any official who dared to correct an error without written permission.

Whichever of the above is true, we are up schist creek.
 
Yes, we are. I've proposed a bill that should hopefully solve our numbering woes once and for all.

EDIT: and since that bill subsumes the effect of this bill, I would encourage the author to abandon this bill and throw their support behind my more permanent solution.
 
I am working on a proposal to revive a corrections procedure that worked in the past as a constitutional amendment, with a check and balance process. If we had kept it when the current constitution was adopted (and I tried), we wouldn't have had all of these problems.
 
I would like to make an official recommendation and plea that the RA adopt my proposals and not those of my colleagues. In the short term please get behind this amendment to fix the misnumbered clauses. Which should be leaving formal debate in a few days.

And for the long term, I feel a non-legislative change to the RA as stated and proposed in my "READ THE BILLS" proposal here is better then a Legal code or Constitutional legislative amendment. As such I recommend adopting my proposals and Vote Nay if the proposals of my colleagues come up for a vote. Thank you.

Vote your district, Vote your conscience, Don't surprise me.....

house-of-cards-kevin-spacey.jpg
And the most important one of those is...DON'T SURPRISE ME!
 
God n Country n Byron CANNOT support this legislation.
SillyString:
I would suggest withdrawing this bill, and simply inserting the following clause into some other content-ful piece of legislation:

Other clauses of the Legal Code shall be renumbered as appropriate
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We've done that before and it works well.
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I am gravely concerned about the precedent of this. What's next, riders (sp?) providing funding for TNP aircraft carriers?
 
I would like to note that this proposal was put in FORMAL DEBATE by Lord Nwahs at 11:14 am my time zone on April 10th. The five day period has passed it is now April 15th at 12:06pm my time. Formal debate should be concluded. However, as the bills sponsor, and now appointed Deputy Speaker, I feel to remove any specter of impropriety I shall wait and let Lord Nwahs or Mr. Speaker make that determination and finalize and make it official on if formal debate has concluded or not.
 
Lord Byron:
What's next, riders (sp?) providing funding for TNP aircraft carriers?
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Oh my goodness, no. Everyone knows that spaceships are the futuristic weapons of choice these days. We would be remiss if we poured any funding at all into outdated and, frankly, silly boats, no matter how large they might be.
 
PaulWallLibertarian42:
Currently Chapter 7.2 of the legal code reads thusly:
Section 7.2: Holidays
6. The first of January shall be known as Remembrance Day, and shall provide an occasion for Nations to remember those players who have left the region and the game of Nationstates.
7. The twenty-sixth of April shall be Flag Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the adoption of the Flag of The North Pacific.
8. The twenty-sixth of May shall be Manumission Day, and shall commemorate the end of the delegacy of Pixiedance, and celebrate the return of a democratic government to the region.
8. The seventh of July shall be Constitution Day, and shall commemorate the ratification of the Constitution of the North Pacific.
9. The twenty-eighth of July shall be Liberation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the overthrow of Great Bight and return of a native government to the region.
10. The thirteenth of November shall be Creation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of Nationstates; and provide an opportunity to extend fellowship throughout the NationStates communities.
11. The twenty-third of November shall be Founders' Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of the first official forum of The North Pacific, and through it the community which has kept The North Pacific as the preeminent region in Nationstates.
Click to expand...

All my proposal would do is this:
Section 7.2: Holidays
6. The first of January shall be known as Remembrance Day, and shall provide an occasion for Nations to remember those players who have left the region and the game of Nationstates.
7. The twenty-sixth of April shall be Flag Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the adoption of the Flag of The North Pacific.
8. The twenty-sixth of May shall be Manumission Day, and shall commemorate the end of the delegacy of Pixiedance, and celebrate the return of a democratic government to the region.
9. The seventh of July shall be Constitution Day, and shall commemorate the ratification of the Constitution of the North Pacific.
10. The twenty-eighth of July shall be Liberation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the overthrow of Great Bight and return of a native government to the region.
11. The thirteenth of November shall be Creation Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of Nationstates; and provide an opportunity to extend fellowship throughout the NationStates communities.
12. The twenty-third of November shall be Founders' Day, and shall commemorate and celebrate the establishment of the first official forum of The North Pacific, and through it the community which has kept The North Pacific as the preeminent region in Nationstates.
Click to expand...

Bold Italics reflect the change.

MAGIC! Would remove the double 8's and number the clauses based on basic commonsense every day numbering.
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I don't understand why people are casting "nay" votes on this. Unless they like things numbered incorrectly. Bunch of obstructionists.
 
SillyString:
Lord Byron:
What's next, riders (sp?) providing funding for TNP aircraft carriers?
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Oh my goodness, no. Everyone knows that spaceships are the futuristic weapons of choice these days. We would be remiss if we poured any funding at all into outdated and, frankly, silly boats, no matter how large they might be.
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What about a floating aircraft carrier a la The Avengers?
 
PaulWallLibertarian42:
I don't understand why people are casting "nay" votes on this. Unless they like things numbered incorrectly. Bunch of obstructionists.
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I have grammatical complaints. :P

What about a floating aircraft carrier a la The Avengers?
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Oh, well now, that is of course something we should be earmarking untold funds for.
 
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