How a Bill Becomes a Law Amendment

That, as far as I am concerned strengthens my argument -- the amendment must be precisely what is added, without the need for editing. And leaving out the actual numbers creates a need for impermissible editing. Fixing an omission in a constitutional amendment once passed is ultra vires as to the Speaker or anyone else.

As I've said before, the problem goes away if you just fix the damn bill and insert the number yourself before any vote starts. If that means we have to return to formal debate and delay the vote for a few days, then that is immensely preferable to voting on a bill that is legally flawed.

Are you suggesting that a bill can be implemented without clicking the "Edit" button on the post that contains the constitution? Cause that's what I meant by "edit." Adding something to the legal code or constitution is editing it.

Once again, there is no ambiguity here. This bill prescribes a single, exact way to amend the constitution, just as precisely as if it specified the numbers, but with the added flexibility of being able to take effect even in another bill that affects the same area of the constitution is passed in the meantime.

Grosseschnauzer:

And I object to this bill proceeding to a vote under the current procedures of the R.A.

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I note the objection to the bill, two more objections are required to halt the vote.

Crushing Our Enemies:

Are you suggesting that a bill can be implemented without clicking the "Edit" button on the post that contains the constitution? Cause that's what I meant by "edit." Adding something to the legal code or constitution is editing it.

Once again, there is no ambiguity here. This bill prescribes a single, exact way to amend the constitution, just as precisely as if it specified the numbers, but with the added flexibility of being able to take effect even in another bill that affects the same area of the constitution is passed in the meantime.

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The sponsor of this legislation is dense.

In order to comply with the stated requirements, each clause has to have a number, it cannot be done editorily after the fact. There are no constitutionally valid provisions in current law that permits such editing, or if you prefer, correcting of adopted language.

We did have such a process for all governing documents in the previous consrirurion, which permitted input from the Speaker, the Delegate and the Court, and permitted a process to have corrections in the constitution and bill of rights, as well as the legal code, but others involved in the drafting of the current constitution strenuously objected to it. If that provision was still in place, this would be an issue only of using such a process to confirm the numerical citation for the clauses being inserted. Since we do not have such a process now, such ex post facto editing is not valid.

Grosseschnauzer:

The sponsor of this legislation is dense.

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Well, density is a relative matter, of course. I would estimate that my density is roughly 1.03 g/mL with no air in my lungs, but that can fall to about .98 g/mL if I'm holding my breath, or even lower if I had Mexican food that day. I don't really see this as relevant.

Grosseschnauzer:

In order to comply with the stated requirements, each clause has to have a number, it cannot be done editorily after the fact.

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So far, you have only supplied provisions that say each clause has to have a number. You have no supplied any requirements that say the number must be explicitly specified in the legislation. There is nothing in the constitution, legal code, RA rules, or Speaker policy that says that. You're making it up in your head because that's how it's always been done. But lately, we've run into problems because laws that affect the same portions of a document have been passed in close proximity, resulting in their specified numbers being inaccurate. Bills have been withdrawn over this issue, and legislation has been delayed. I think it smooths the process to avoid specifying the numbers explicitly, and instead referencing existing clauses by their content, and providing instructions on how to insert and renumber the new clauses. What provision allows us to do this? Oh yeah, this one:

TNP Constitution:

2. The Regional Assembly may enact, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.

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Grosseschnauzer:

There are no constitutionally valid provisions in current law that permits such editing, or if you prefer, correcting of adopted language.

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First off, this isn't editing the language, it's simply enumerating the clauses in accordance with the provisions of the bill. Also, you have yet to supply any way that this bill gives the speaker any discretion, or allow for any ambiguity in how the Constitution is updated to reflect its passage.

The format of this bill is a non-issue.