At Vote: Right of Emigration [Complete] [Complete]

Abacathea

TNPer
Right of Emigration
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights

Strength: Significant

Proposed by: Abacathea​

Description: Committed to improving the world, one resolution at a time,

Cognizant of the fact that some nations may recognize their citizens as property of that nation and therefore deny them the right to leave said nation,

Determining this to be a gross abuse of sapient rights and seeking to resolve this issue,

Hereby,

Mandates that no government may prevent the emigration of individuals from their nation,

Declares that individuals may specifically be exempted from the aforementioned mandate if:
(a) They are subject to a medically legitimate and necessary quarantine,
(b) They are awaiting trial, undergoing legal proceedings, or if they are carrying out a sentence as a result of such legal proceedings,
(c) They have a warrant existing for their arrest,
(d) The recipient nation or the nation of origin having probable cause to believe that the individual is traveling for the purpose of committing a crime,
(e) The individuals concerned are non-emancipated minors traveling without the consent of a legal guardian,
(f) They are legitimately determined to be mentally unable to make the decision to travel of their own accord,

Clarifying that nothing in this resolution prevents member nations from setting requirements for entry and residency within their borders.
 
Mousey's Review

Overall, I support the goal of this proposal, but I fear that it is a difficult topic to effectively legislate without including exploitable loopholes. After review, with the help of Europeia, we have discovered two potentially concerning loopholes that are worthy of deeper consideration.

The first:
Quote:

(d) The recipient nation or the nation of origin having probable cause to believe that the individual is traveling for the purpose of committing a crime,

This clause is my biggest concern in the text.

For starters, If this has to do with EMIGRATION, why does the "recipient nation" matter? That's not an end of the world concern, but it seems to overly complicate things. After all, if the recipient nation has concerns, the recipient nation may just be changed to a different locale and shouldn't necessarily impact emigration - but rather immigration, which is outside the scope of this proposal.

Further, if the probable cause has to do with intent - and there's no crime that has actually been committed - what recourse does such an individual have to appeal this sort of concern? Yes, "probable cause" is a valid legal term, but if there's no crime to prove or disprove, does this belong in the legal system? Does this open the door for national legislation along the lines of "thought crime" - and, if so, is that really a door we want to open?

Additionally, if speeding is considered a crime under this law (which I'd think it would be), how many people would fall subject to this clause? After all, if you have a single speeding ticket in your home nation, I think there would be probable cause that you're likely to speed - at some point - in the target nation, wherever it may be.

Of course, I'm not sure how you'd close this loophole without adding a bunch more micromanaging to this proposal, which I'd probably dislike as well. I do like that these exceptions are only options and are not required to be used by nations to forbid emigration. However, I'm not sure how much additional emigration that we will see with the passage of this proposal, given that nations will likely be inclined to maintain their current standards, wherever possible, and to exploit loopholes, such as this one, when they exist.

The second loophole that concerns me is:

Quote:

(f) They are legitimately determined to be mentally unable to make the decision to travel of their own accord,

A better wording here might have been helpful - what is "legitimately determined" ? By the nation's legal standards, or by a medical professional? Nations can decree by law what they consider to be a "legitimate determination" of mental capacity to determine travel plans. This is another loophole that could be exploited by nations that wish to retain as many of their citizens as possible within their own borders.



As such, I think that the passage of this resolution will offer a slight net benefit, overall. However, the existence of the loopholes mentioned above limits the ability of the resolution to have as vast or wide-reaching effects as was perhaps intended.

As unhelpful as it is, I will abstain from offering an official recommendation on the subject, as I think individuals should decide for themselves whether or not the merits of the proposal outweigh the limited impact that it may have on a global scale.
 
i would also add known member, affiliate or supporter or crime group or terrorist organization, or human rights violators
 
avati:
i would also add known member, affiliate or supporter or crime group or terrorist organization, or human rights violators
The act is already at quorum so no changes can be made, however I can't say I'd have been comfortable adding those in either way.
 
I gave you a hard time during the drafting of this, but I think the result is a pretty good proposal. I really hope this passes, and plan on giving it my enthusiastic support.
 
Acoustic Siberia:
I gave you a hard time during the drafting of this, but I think the result is a pretty good proposal. I really hope this passes, and plan on giving it my enthusiastic support.
Damn right you did :p

In all seriousness though it was appreciated when I look back at it :p
 
Acoustic Siberia:
I gave you a hard time during the drafting of this, but I think the result is a pretty good proposal. I really hope this passes, and plan on giving it my enthusiastic support.
What nation do you use in that thread? :P

Looks like several people gave poor Aba a hard time :D
 
mcmasterdonia:
Acoustic Siberia:
I gave you a hard time during the drafting of this, but I think the result is a pretty good proposal. I really hope this passes, and plan on giving it my enthusiastic support.
What nation do you use in that thread? :P
My WA is The Dark Star Republic.
 
Overall, I support the goal of this proposal, but I fear that it is a difficult topic to effectively legislate without including exploitable loopholes. After review, with the help of Europeia, we have discovered two potentially concerning loopholes that are worthy of deeper consideration.

The first:
(d) The recipient nation or the nation of origin having probable cause to believe that the individual is traveling for the purpose of committing a crime,
This clause is my biggest concern in the text.

For starters, If this has to do with EMIGRATION, why does the "recipient nation" matter? That's not an end of the world concern, but it seems to overly complicate things. After all, if the recipient nation has concerns, the recipient nation may just be changed to a different locale and shouldn't necessarily impact emigration - but rather immigration, which is outside the scope of this proposal.

Further, if the probable cause has to do with intent - and there's no crime that has actually been committed - what recourse does such an individual have to appeal this sort of concern? Yes, "probable cause" is a valid legal term, but if there's no crime to prove or disprove, does this belong in the legal system? Does this open the door for national legislation along the lines of "thought crime" - and, if so, is that really a door we want to open?

Additionally, if speeding is considered a crime under this law (which I'd think it would be), how many people would fall subject to this clause? After all, if you have a single speeding ticket in your home nation, I think there would be probable cause that you're likely to speed - at some point - in the target nation, wherever it may be.

Of course, I'm not sure how you'd close this loophole without adding a bunch more micromanaging to this proposal, which I'd probably dislike as well. I do like that these exceptions are only options and are not required to be used by nations to forbid emigration. However, I'm not sure how much additional emigration that we will see with the passage of this proposal, given that nations will likely be inclined to maintain their current standards, wherever possible, and to exploit loopholes, such as this one, when they exist.

The second loophole that concerns me is:

(f) They are legitimately determined to be mentally unable to make the decision to travel of their own accord,
A better wording here might have been helpful - what is "legitimately determined" ? By the nation's legal standards, or by a medical professional? Nations can decree by law what they consider to be a "legitimate determination" of mental capacity to determine travel plans. This is another loophole that could be exploited by nations that wish to retain as many of their citizens as possible within their own borders.




As such, I think that the passage of this resolution will offer a slight net benefit, overall. However, the existence of the loopholes mentioned above limits the ability of the resolution to have as vast or wide-reaching effects as was perhaps intended.

As unhelpful as it is, I will abstain from offering an official recommendation on the subject, as I think individuals should decide for themselves whether or not the merits of the proposal outweigh the limited impact that it may have on a global scale.
 
I can understand why such analysis was never posted earlier, given Abacathea refused to draft his proposal in public and rushed it to quorum within mere hours of initially posting his draft.

Oh, wait...
 
Acoustic Siberia:
I can understand why such analysis was never posted earlier, given Abacathea refused to draft his proposal in public and rushed it to quorum within mere hours of initially posting his draft.

Oh, wait...
Ah Mousey's good people, and a respected friend, and she did this as a favor to me, the ministry must remain objective :)
 
In response to the concerns raised by Mousey though I will refute accordingly;

(d) The recipient nation or the nation of origin having probable cause to believe that the individual is traveling for the purpose of committing a crime,

The argument presented here is one that while is valid, is a bit of a stretch, to counter the speeding argument. There is a difference between someone who's going abroad, and might speed, and someone who is going abroad for the purpose of speeding. That particular wording was pivotal in the drafting process to preventing the very loophole you described. Might someone buy drugs abroad? Of course. Are they travelling specifically to do so? That's the line in the sand. One has to have faith that member nations police forces aren't profiling speeders across the international boundaries ;)

As for the latter clause, my understanding was and I stand to be corrected that the WA has outlined mental standards prior to now, or if not Bears Armed was working on something at the time, so even if there is concern that this might be subject to abuse, if the WA has not already set a precedent, it's possible it may soon. In any case, goodfaith compliance coupled with a desire not to be micromanagy has to prevail to a certain extent here.
 
Voting on this resolution has ended.

Thanks to those nations who cast their votes. Your participation is a great help to the region.

This topic has been locked and sent to the Archives for safekeeping. If you would like this topic to be re-opened for further discussion, please contact the WA Delegate, a Global Moderator, or an Administrator for assistance. Thank you.
 
Voting on this resolution has ended.

Thanks to those nations who cast their votes. Your participation is a great help to the region.

This topic has been locked and sent to the Archives for safekeeping. If you would like this topic to be re-opened for further discussion, please contact the WA Delegate, a Global Moderator, or an Administrator for assistance. Thank you.
 
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