U.S. Government Shutdown

The 'shut down' means nothing and has no effect on anyone but 'unessential' government employees (which, if they are 'unessential', why should they even have those useless jobs?).

What the 'shut down' means is that any 'non-essential' employee gets a whole lot of time off yet still gets paid for that time off as though they worked, including maximum over-time whether or not they actually have every worked overtime.

OTOH, the most tragic thing about the "shut down" is that Obama has personally ordered that the "Live Panda Web Cam" at the national zoo be turned off to save money: Panda Cam Shut Down for Shut-down.

The whole 'shut down' is a scam. In a shut down, the US federal government is reduced to what it can only do under the Constitution (which is what it should only be able to do according to the Constitution).

Essentially, a federal government 'shut down' means nothing at all to about 99.99% of the people. It just means that you can send emails, browse the internet and make phone calls without the NSA spying on you (and the NSA spies on everyone in the world that they can, including Massai tribesmen who use cell phones.

Frankly, I'd like to see the whole US federal government 'shut down' forever and the power the feds usurped from the states turned back to the states.

A government 'shut down' for me has the affect of lifting the veil of oppression and Orwellian tactics. Long live the shut down!
 
National Guard and Reserve units are cancelling drills all over the country. So much for the claim that this shut-down "will not effect military readiness".
 
I think it's awful that congress gets paid no matter what, while poor regular people don't get paid. I'm a lot more worried about the debt ceiling than the shutdown. That would affect stock markets all around the world if they don't stop their nonsense by Oct 17.
 
I wouldn't exactly follow our histroy on the subject :P It was highly controversial what happened and seriously damaged the political process and the office of Governor General.
 
How about the House comes to the table and takes a health care argument away from a simple budget bill?
 
schweizweld:
I think it's awful that congress gets paid no matter what, while poor regular people don't get paid. I'm a lot more worried about the debt ceiling than the shutdown. That would affect stock markets all around the world if they don't stop their nonsense by Oct 17.
Click to expand...
In California, after years of the state legislature passing the budget months late, we passed an initiative that took away legislator pay if the budget isn't passed on time. Ever since then, the legislature has passed the budget on time. Funny how incentives work with people.

And yes, we've already gone through this debt ceiling crisis once before. Failing to increase the debt ceiling would rock the global economy.
 
To give some background to the link included in the OP about Australian history.

In 1975, the Government of the day was embroiled in scandal after scandal and was deeply unpopular. The opposition controlled the Senate and refused to pass the Government's budget with the sole aim of forcing an election. Prime Minister Whitlam knew that if he went to an election he would lose badly, and therefore refused to call an election and told the Governor General that he would not call an election under these circumstances.

The Government was also borrowing money from Middle Eastern businessmen rather than using the parliament to finance some of their projects. PM Whitlam also spent money on ridiculous art and brought himself a brand new Rolls Royce when the country was doing terribly economically already.

The Governor General sacked the Prime Minister for failing to secure supply through the Senate. Traditionally if a PM loses a vote in the house, they must resign or call an election. The same is not said for the Senate. The Governor General did not inform the PM of his plans if supply could not be guaranteed. It is expected that the GG and PM would discuss these matters and give each other appropriate warning. The concern was that the PM would attempt to sack the GG, before the GG could act. The GG also discussed this matter with the Chief Justice who was once a a Minister in the Liberal government who were currently in opposition. A very significant conflict of interest.

The dismissal of the Prime Minister caused a great uproar. The Senate was not informed of what had transpired at Yarralumla and subsequently the Government voted with the opposition to secure supply. The Governor General had required that his new Prime Minister pass supply and then immediately call an election.

When Malcolm Fraser rose in Parliament to announce that he had been made Prime Minister, the parliament immediately sought to vote confidence back into Mr Whitlam. Fraser quickly left parliament and advised the GG to call an election. The GG refused to accept the vote of parliament on the grounds that an election had been called and the Queen refused to intervene as the constitution was clear that the power laid with the GOvernor General to commission a Prime Minister, not the Queen.

Then Whitlam made his famous speech "May we say God Save the Queen, because nothing will save the Governor General".

This represented a total failure of democracy. The leaders of both parties were putting staying in power or obtaining power before what was necessary for the country and before what was required to restore the faith of the public in the system. The Governor-General failed to communicate, but certain elements of the military (that were subsequently restructured) had already made clear that action would have to be taken.

This represented one of the darkest days in our history, the politicians and executive leadership had fundamentally failed the country. Whitlam subsequently lost the election in a landslide to the Fraser Government.

Some people had expressed to Whitlam their desire for them to remain in parliament until he was reappointed Prime Minister and even questioned whose side the army was one. Unquestionably, the Governor General and Fraser had the authority over the military. If necessary the politicians would have been dragged from parliament, some people wanted that, to demonstrate the scandal for what it was - a coup. It is possible that blood could have been spilled that day and Whitlam did not want the country to descend into anarchy and did not want our international reputation to be damaged by this scandal.

Over the next few years the country was incredibly divided. The Offices of Prime Minister and Governor General were both seriously damaged. Every where the GG went he was met with protests and riots. It was a very bad time for the country.

Whitlam had a lot of significant achievements as Prime Minister. Many of these still live on to this day and he is considered to be a pro-reform Prime Minister. While his reputation may have been spared some of the damage, the Governor Generals Sir John Kerr certainly was not. He is a hated and highly controversial figure in Australian politics and has been described as the last aristocrat.

The political parties in the US, including the President, need to put the people's faith in the system and the people's interest first. There should always be more to politics than simply attaining or retaining power.
 
Blue Wolf II:
National Guard and Reserve units are cancelling drills all over the country. So much for the claim that this shut-down "will not effect military readiness".
Click to expand...
Meh - unnecessary on the part of the national guard units. The States need to fund them, not the feds, just so the states have a means to resist the upcoming federal government dictatorship.

Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God! (Thomas Jefferson).

I just say, dissolve the United States and get it over with. Let the individual states form new unions amongst themselves and sent those arseholes (of all parites) in Washington, DC (District of Criminals) packing! :winner:
 
Romanoffia:
Meh - unnecessary on the part of the national guard units. The States need to fund them, not the feds, just so the states have a means to resist the upcoming federal government dictatorship.
Click to expand...
The states already have this ability, it's called State Active Duty and depending on what state you're in, it ranges from being fucking awesome (Delaware, double pay!) to fucking horrible (Wisconsin, $50 a day, which you totally get taxed on). Also, if you get injured on State Active Duty, you don't get the federal healthcare benefits (Tricare) you normally would with a regular deployment. Since no state has an independent healthcare set up just for their Guard, that means, in most states, you get injured on this status, you pay for it yourself. Oh, and remember, you're military, so you're expressly prohibited from suing your employer (State or Federal) for the money to cover your healthcare bills. I've seen this happen to members of my unit, it's State Active Duty's dirty little secret.

If any state started paying their Guard the same as they pay during State Active Duty, they wouldn't have a Guard. Patriotism aside, I got bills to pay.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Romanoffia:
Meh - unnecessary on the part of the national guard units. The States need to fund them, not the feds, just so the states have a means to resist the upcoming federal government dictatorship.
Click to expand...
The states already have this ability, it's called State Active Duty and depending on what state you're in, it ranges from being fucking awesome (Delaware, double pay!) to fucking horrible (Wisconsin, $50 a day, which you totally get taxed on). Also, if you get injured on State Active Duty, you don't get the federal healthcare benefits (Tricare) you normally would with a regular deployment. Since no state has an independent healthcare set up just for their Guard, that means, in most states, you get injured on this status, you pay for it yourself. Oh, and remember, you're military, so you're expressly prohibited from suing your employer (State or Federal) for the money to cover your healthcare bills. I've seen this happen to members of my unit, it's State Active Duty's dirty little secret.

If any state started paying their Guard the same as they pay during State Active Duty, they wouldn't have a Guard. Patriotism aside, I got bills to pay.
Click to expand...

South Carolina has not only a National Guard, but also a State Guard that is financed only by the state and it outnumbers the SC National Guard 10 to 1 in personnel and firepower. SC seems to be doing just fine in that department. Only the SC National Guard that uses federal facilities is affected and unnecessarily so. Just another way the feds are trying to weaken the States.

Well, if you aren't getting paid, blame Obama for that, not the so-called "shut-down".

I remember back when the government 'Shut Down' happened when Clinton was President. We got our Army paychecks without any delay. Obama, OTOH, via executive order, made sure that military doesn't get paid except in 'combat' theater deployment.

Ironically, Obama has made sure the welfare checks and foodstamps keep rolling out to the welfare drones because he obviously values them more than our military. Oh, and of course, those whose mouths are firmly osculating the government teat can always be counted upon to keep voting for the crooks who promise them the most government cheese at the taxpayers' expense. :P

And the next thing to come down the pike as yet another example of the Obama Administration's process of "Government by Crisis" is the 'Debt Ceiling' straw dog, which only means that the Government has to first pay its debts (which includes welfare, government employee paychecks, and assorted government cheese programs) before it can go spending money like a drunken sailor at a whore house on shrimps on treadmills (at the cost of millions and millions. Your tax dollars paid for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71Zqa33SFM ).

Frankly, I say shut down most of the Federal Government and strip it down to exactly what delegated authority it has in the Constitution as written and let the States take over whatever they see fit to spend money on.

We are currently spending about one trillion dollars each year more than we take in revenue. And then the bastards want to spend more and engage in running the printing presses (quite literally) to the point that we have become The Weimar Republik. "Quantitative Easing" is exactly the very same policy that Germany followed in the 1920's to pay off their debts imposed by Treaty of Versailles. And that is exactly how the US Government is paying for everything. Print bonds, print money in the amount of those bonds, inflate the currency and prop it up with the hopes that some dumb bastard country will buy those bonds, and then do it all over again when the next spending spree is started.

People think that prices are rising. Prices are not rising, per se, the value of the money is going down. After all, the more money you have in circulation the less valuable the money is, and bad money forces good money out of circulation (viz.: Gresham's Law). Ultimately, it all collapses and that is what is happening now. All this 'Quantitative Easing' does is to feed money to the banks and stock broker scum on Wall Street to make the numbers look good and fool people. Take my word for it, if people knew how bad it really was, their would be mass panic in the streets.

Every nation that has ever tried exactly what the US Government is trying in terms of fiscal policy always ends in disaster. Can you say, The Weimar Republic? Can you say The Confederate States of America (which collapsed because it spent more money than it could cover in revenue and then just ran the printing presses)? Can you say The Soviet Union? Does the Roman Empire ring a bell? How about the French Monarchy? Imperial Russia? Every nation that has tried this deficit spending crap has gone into the dustbin of history with not so hilarious results.

So, as I say, it's better to shut down the government and force the Executive Branch to comply with fiscal reform (which is what you are witnessing now) and do it now because in about six months the whole ball of wax comes undone and we end up in chaos and martial law by March, or, worse yet, dictatorial government by the President to affect the same totalitarian results.

It's time for the federal government to be shoved back into its constitutional cage where it belongs.
 
:clap: Fabulous rant, Roman.

I am reminded of the old joke where the Dept. of Agriculture employee comes into work, and he's all sad and dejected. His co-worker asks him, "What's wrong?" He says, "My farmer died."
 
Romanoffia:
What the 'shut down' means is that any 'non-essential' employee gets a whole lot of time off yet still gets paid for that time off as though they worked, including maximum over-time whether or not they actually have every worked overtime.
Click to expand...
This isn't actually true. And "essential" employees who are being forced to come into work aren't getting paid either, at least not yet.
 
I like your rant, Roman! The difference between all those countries you mentioned and the United States is that foreign creditors buy U.S. debt in U.S. dollars, because the dollar is the world's reserve currency. The vast majority of U.S. debt is not owed to foreign creditors - it's owed to the American public. The latest round of quantitative easing (QE3) has largely counteracted the effects of sequestration, which has contracted the public sector of the U.S. economy. There's no doubt about it, however - the U.S. has a spending problem that has continued unabated for the past three decades. Unfortunately, our generation has the dubious honor of paying down this debt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top