recall of Gaspo as Attorney General

Ah right.

Yes, I do think that recalls need to be separate to normal legislative votes going through the RA. Elections are counted as separate, so too should recalls since it's effective the opposite. An de-election, if you will.

Sanctaria:

Ah right.

Yes, I do think that recalls need to be separate to normal legislative votes going through the RA. Elections are counted as separate, so too should recalls since it's effective the opposite. An de-election, if you will.

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Yes, I entirely agree.

As I've noted a few times, the Speaker already intends to fix the procedure for recall votes.

But it took at least 5 pages in this thread to get there.

flemingovia:

I received a great deal of input, and pressure, on the question of recalling Gaspo - from people both for and against it, in RA threads, via PM, on IRC channels and queries, over the phone, and even in person.

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Seriously? Do some of you people not even have lives?

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8 days to the vote, folks.

7 days to the vote. Final week! The excitement mounts.

Six days to go... if it happens.

COE on #tnp:

<COE>: I'm online, but won't resume my duties until the end of my posted leave of absense. Need a little time to get situated and organized, and read a report that Asta is preparing for me about what the fuck is up with this recall motion.

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Objectivity and pre-judging much?

Could the right honorable admin perhaps refrain from spamming the thread?

SillyString:

Could the right honorable admin perhaps refrain from spamming the thread?

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Oh, so Sanctaria lobbied you about this on #tnp as well, did he?

Just expressing my utter excitement and joy of life at the approaching vote. A great day for democracy.

flemingovia:

SillyString:

Could the right honorable admin perhaps refrain from spamming the thread?

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Oh, so Sanctaria lobbied you about this as well, did he?

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If you mean asked her, as a Moderator of the forum, to moderate, then yes, yes I did.

Though it seems a little sad I had to ask a Moderator to tell an Admin to stop spamming.

What? I think it's embarassing that you asked someone to moderate Flemingovia for posting in this thread. You are an assembly member aren't you? If you don't like the conduct of another member then why don't you tell him so? It seems about as effective as trying to use moderation to silence an assembly member posting in the Regional Assembly, of all places. What is the point of membership if people are to be silenced by petty tyrants whispering in dark corners?

Further, I don't consider what Flemingovia was doing to be spamming. His last post did have content in it after all. And do you not understand that he is ridiculing the scheduling system for votes?

flemingovia:

Six days to go... if it happens.

COE on #tnp:

<COE>: I'm online, but won't resume my duties until the end of my posted leave of absense. Need a little time to get situated and organized, and read a report that Asta is preparing for me about what the fuck is up with this recall motion.

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Objectivity and pre-judging much?

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The only judgment I've made about this so far is that it's ridiculously complicated. I'm currently unraveling it (mostly thanks to a rather excellent and elucidating report from my deputy), and should be ready to take action shortly after I resume my duties.

CoE,

if there is a legal basis for this vote, I'm not seeing it. But I am curious to see if you all have found one.

Democratic Donkeys:

What? I think it's embarassing that you asked someone to moderate Flemingovia for posting in this thread. You are an assembly member aren't you? If you don't like the conduct of another member then why don't you tell him so? It seems about as effective as trying to use moderation to silence an assembly member posting in the Regional Assembly, of all places. What is the point of membership if people are to be silenced by petty tyrants whispering in dark corners?

Further, I don't consider what Flemingovia was doing to be spamming. His last post did have content in it after all. And do you not understand that he is ridiculing the scheduling system for votes?

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I query'd her and told her I thought flem was spamming in this thread and if she'd look into it. It was the handiest option available since we were both on IRC.

If flem was a reasonable person I would have approached him first, but he's show himself to be quite unreasonable on this matter over the past number of weeks. Asking him to stop would have been pointless because he wouldn't have. Although if my memory corrects, I actually did ask him to stop in IRC too.

If he thinks the scheduling system is ridiculous, he can amend the rules to change that. Spamming, and yes that's what he was doing, in a thread is neither appropriate nor the correct way to do that.

I'm gonna ask that if there's any further discussion to be had over the moderation issue in this thread, please take it to PM or something. I see potential for threadjack.

I would like to first thank Flemingovia for pressing this issue, because his effort has had several positive effects. For a long time, we have collectively bemoaned the lack of options for expressing disapproval at a government official, but we've never gotten riled up enough about it to actually take steps to remedy the situation, until now. The amendment on the floor to add censure to the legal code, and (to a lesser extent) the amendment to criminalize gross misconduct are examples of possible remedies that are being pursued. In addition, it's been brought to my attention again that there is a need to expedite the recall process, as the current procedure is too slow to be practical, as this affair has demonstrated.

However, I am inclined to agree with the unlikely coalition that has formed in opposition of this matter going to vote. When Blue Wolf II and Punk D (among many others) agree on a certain course of action, their reasoning bears scrutiny. So I have spent time studying the issue, and considered several courses of action.

I could take Flem's advice, and bring the matter to a vote, trusting that if it were to pass, it would be legal, and if it were to fail, it would be illegal. However, I think it would be unwise to equate unpopularity and illegality, or indeed, popularity and legality. It might be that some members would base their vote entirely on whether they thought the proposal was legal or not, but even if they all did, popular consensus is not fact. In other words, even if a majority of the Regional Assembly considers this a legal proposal, that alone does not make it so.

No, to determine the legality of a proposal, we consult not only the minds of our fellow assembly members, but also the law. Here is what the law says about the removal of a government official:

TNP Constitution:

3. The Regional Assembly may remove a government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.

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Clearly, it is a logical contradiction to remove someone from an office that they no longer occupy. Thus, this proposal does not fall under the power granted to the Regional Assembly by the Constitution, and cannot be allowed to proceed. No vote will be held on this matter, but the topic will remain open for discussion.

I am pleased that so many legislators have decided to weigh in on this issue, and thank all of you for your contributions to the discussion. Most of all, I would like to thank Deputy Speaker SillyString for holding this thing together with both hands and keeping it from exploding until I returned. There aren’t very many people who have the patience and fortitude to keep this assembly from going totally insane, and she is one of them. Thank you for your service, deputy.

I think this is a wise decision. Recalling someone not in their post and not even in the RA would set a new low standard.

I agree with the above. Well said.

I thank the speaker for his ruling.

And congratulations to Gaspo.

flemingovia:

I thank the speaker for his ruling.

And congratulations to Gaspo.

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I commend the Speaker as well as the Deputy Speaker for their fortitude. And I suppose Gaspo is lucky that the angry masses of the RA were not able to recall him from his post long after he abandoned it.