Govindia

I think one of the issues here is that we all agreed that if flaming had occured warnings should be given. We didn't however agree on what posts required warnings be given, as such Eluvatar took that upon himself. Upon review, this seems like a bad idea.
 
Blue Wolf and Chasmanthe were explicitly discussed and no one objected to warning them in particular.

Personally I'd prefer some other solution but I'm not going to stand in the way of full disclosure if that's what what we choose.
 
Eluvatar:
Blue Wolf and Chasmanthe were explicitly discussed and no one objected to warning them in particular.

Personally I'd prefer some other solution but I'm not going to stand in the way of full disclosure if that's what what we choose.
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If you look above, I think you will find that my stance was that there should not be any warnings over this at all. I would hate that to be lost in the general discussion and the warnings to be presented as a unanimous decision.
 
Eluvatar - to be clear I am not blaming you for the actions you took.

I'm simply saying that it seems unfair of us to have left such a decision almost entirely up to you. I think you will foot the blame for this, which I feel is unfair to you.

Rather I think this is an opportunity for us to do better, the other mods, and to communicate better with yourself about which posts are in need of warnings.

I hope that makes sense...
 
If warnings are to be given or have been given, then just post the offending posts and be done with it.
 
Sorry, I was away for christmas. If you still need my permission, I grant it - I don't really think it is needed but it can't harm anything.
 
Great Bights Mum:
Who made the request? BW? But can't he see it anyway? How will publicizing what he can already see help him understand?
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I have had a look at the maskings. I do not think that BW can currently see this thread or forum area.
 
I looked too. He is listed as a mod in an NPA sub-forum, so I figured he could see this. Also, he had posted in this thread earlier, but I guess his masking as changed since then.

OK, I have no problem with disclosing the discussions here. Even the juicy bits that have Flem citing the OT. :evil:
 
Actually after some more thought. I would prefer if we just came up with a consensus response and post it rather than making this thread public. This would setup a precedent that I would prefer not to even cross.
 
Hileville:
Actually after some more thought. I would prefer if we just came up with a consensus response and post it rather than making this thread public. This would setup a precedent that I would prefer not to even cross.
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:agree:

If there is a show of an air of consensus, it would be nicer than showing the debate that was had. It wasn't exactly bad, but showing the posts may not be the best way to go. It will definitely cause a larger stir of emotion if we post every single message, rather than a clear and united response.

If everyone else still wants to go with the current plan I'll still support it. I would rather Hile's plan however.
 
I would rather show the debate. Speaking personally I said nothing that I am ashamed of, and would not be happy to be in the public domain. A "show of consensus" and a "united response" would be tricky since there was no consensus and no unanimity.

If a summary statement is issued, I would want it made clear that I am not part of the "consensus"
 
I'm not sure everything is the proposed disclosure is pertinent to the warnings that were and were not issued, and I'm not sure whether including all of that sidebar is a good precedent.

If someone wants to take a crack at a summary feel free to post something.

Even if it is not a consensus of unanimity, there was a plurality of opinion and we did have Eluvatar figure that part out.
 
The majority seems to be in favour of making the pertinent parts of this thread public. Unless i am overruled, I will do this in 24 hours.

On another issue, please remember that Govindia does not have an automatic right for his posts to be approved. There is little point in putting him on permanent approval if every single post of his is going to be waved through. I have noticed a number that have been ... questionable ... that nonetheless have been approved by mods.
 
Could you provide examples of something you consider questionable, so we can get a better idea of what you're talking about?
 
Well, if it's a questionable post, isn't that grounds for further moderation action?

Regardless, some of his posts have been in the grey area as far as what is considered appropriate and what is not.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Regardless, some of his posts have been in the grey area as far as what is considered appropriate and what is not.
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Exactly. There have been a few questionable posts that I have approved but by what has been said it seems to have been accepted behavior in the past. I am starting to believe the issue may just be we as a moderation team do not have a clear consensus as to what is and is not acceptable.
 
Hileville:
mcmasterdonia:
Regardless, some of his posts have been in the grey area as far as what is considered appropriate and what is not.
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Exactly. There have been a few questionable posts that I have approved but by what has been said it seems to have been accepted behavior in the past. I am starting to believe the issue may just be we as a moderation team do not have a clear consensus as to what is and is not acceptable.
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This is precisely why I asked Flem to point out what he thinks is questionable, so we can start to develop consensus.
 
The "gray area" of appropriateness is one reason why I'd rather that those who usually moderate any particular area of the forums be the ones to review and approve posts.

I'm always concerned about missing context in those situations, and that is something I hope everyone is keeping in mind in reviewing Govindia's posts. If you come across a queued post that you aren't sure about, then copy it into this thread for the team to review, and the link to the thread it is is, and that will allow everyone a chance to take a look.
 
flemingovia:
The majority seems to be in favour of making the pertinent parts of this thread public. Unless i am overruled, I will do this in 24 hours.

On another issue, please remember that Govindia does not have an automatic right for his posts to be approved. There is little point in putting him on permanent approval if every single post of his is going to be waved through. I have noticed a number that have been ... questionable ... that nonetheless have been approved by mods.
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Bump. Last call.
 
There is a post by Gov in the report CP from McM's re-election campaign. This is the start of his continued harassment until he gets an answer that he wants. He has done this numerous times and has been warned various times for this behavior. This is crossing the line and I am getting really sick of having to see this kind of continued behavior from him.
 
The problem is, when all of Govindia's posts have to be mod-approved, then that means that all of his posts that get through have mod approval.

We cannot warn Govindia further for making posts that WE have allowed past scrutiny.

There have been several Govindia posts that should not have been approved, in my opinion, including some in the "McM for delegate" thread.
 
There is one currently hidden post worth discussing:

Govindia:
mcmasterdonia:
Govindia:
ALso, consider this a FOIA request: I would like to know who the cabinet member was, sir.
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I will not release a private confidential discussion that details a personal case of prior harassment. I believe I've given you all the answer I will ever give.
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So, are you stating on the record that you are going to discriminate against certain TNP members who are allowed in #tnp-cabinet, even when they have done nothing wrong other than just lurk and stay in the channel when they have gone AFK?

Or are you going to allow open access to all TNP citizens and rescind the ban, so long as we all behave in a mature and civil manner? I don't like your attitude towards me when I am being excluded when most of the time I'm inactive on IRC due to work and RL.
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The potential problem is that it's continued badgering. Perhaps a caution would be appropriate?

Also:

Govindia:
Gaspo and Mcmasterdonia have had both their posts reported for flamebaiting. Knock it off please. I don't appreciate the government seemingly endorsing a persecution / mockery campaign against me because he lacks the patience to deal with socially awkward people properly.

Thank you .
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Govindia:
flemingovia:
Let's keep the posts in this thread on-topic, shall we?
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Thank you Flem.

Can those two flamebaiting posts be removed and a warn issued to them if possible or something? I really don't like people's treatment of me as of late.
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Eluvatar:
The potential problem is that it's continued badgering. Perhaps a caution would be appropriate?
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Perhaps a ban would be appropriate for someone who has already maxed out all his cautions and warnings and is on 100% mod preview?

Also he wants us to remove posts he doesn't like now? Censorship in a can.
 
I saw that post and did not approve it either. I would like to send him a message letting him know it is badgering. He has asked McM 5 times. McM has said that's all he's saying, yet Gov continues to ask. So - since he is PM banned, how do we send him a message?

The two photos were CLEARLY jokes. We will not be outlawing fun on the forum.
 
It is worth noting that Jamie also gave him a warning, as Election Commissioner and moderator of the Election forums. Which he ignored.
 
That is correct. I am not 100% sure Gov realized Jamie had a Mod Hat on. I know we've given Gov the benefit of the doubt time and again. If the team decides this is it. so be it.
 
My only problem is that Govindia seems to suffer from aspergers or a similar sort of disorder so it makes it difficult for him to understand what he is doing wrong. (One of my friends in real life is similar, you eventually just have to be rude and tell him to shut up so he gets the message LOL)

I will post a little bit of background for the benefit of the moderation team on this issue. Originally Gov asked me what he could do about being banned from #tnp-cabinet as he wanted a reason for the ban. I said to him that it wasn't my place to say (which it isn't) and that his only recourse was to ask during election time or to request a recall.

I'll note that I specifically pointed out that once he got an answer he should stop. On numerous occasions after he asked the question I told him he needed to stop and let the matter drop but he didn't. I believe after a final conversation with him last night, he has finally got the message.

I'm happy to post the IRC logs if that would provide more background.
 
Kiwi:
My only problem is that Govindia seems to suffer from aspergers or a similar sort of disorder so it makes it difficult for him to understand what he is doing wrong. (One of my friends in real life is similar, you eventually just have to be rude and tell him to shut up so he gets the message LOL)

I will post a little bit of background for the benefit of the moderation team on this issue. Originally Gov asked me what he could do about being banned from #tnp-cabinet as he wanted a reason for the ban. I said to him that it wasn't my place to say (which it isn't) and that his only recourse was to ask during election time or to request a recall.

I'll note that I specifically pointed out that once he got an answer he should stop. On numerous occasions after he asked the question I told him he needed to stop and let the matter drop but he didn't. I believe after a final conversation with him last night, he has finally got the message.

I'm happy to post the IRC logs if that would provide more background.
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Clearly that is not the case as he was doing this only hours ago.

For the record, I am well aware of Govindia's issues. I have been as tolerant as one could be over this past year. Letting him into the NPA despite much criticism, where he did well about half the time. I told him on IRC too many times that I lost count, that it was the only answer I could give him. He does not listen. A conversation you had last night, won't have changed anything.

I'm sorry to say, I've been there and done that. Despite what he says, he is incapable of not re-offending.
 
He is now disputing asking about it multiple times in a post I will not approve. At this point I believe he has exhausted all of the warnings we can give him. If this keeps I see no other option but banning.
 
GMB warned him to stop, he's been warned by Kiwi to stop. He's been warned more than anyone else in TNP history. He has 100% forum warning, permanent mod preview, PMs disabled, and banned from multiple TNP channels. He's been on thin ice for years, it's time to pull the plug.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Kiwi:
My only problem is that Govindia seems to suffer from aspergers or a similar sort of disorder so it makes it difficult for him to understand what he is doing wrong. (One of my friends in real life is similar, you eventually just have to be rude and tell him to shut up so he gets the message LOL)

I will post a little bit of background for the benefit of the moderation team on this issue. Originally Gov asked me what he could do about being banned from #tnp-cabinet as he wanted a reason for the ban. I said to him that it wasn't my place to say (which it isn't) and that his only recourse was to ask during election time or to request a recall.

I'll note that I specifically pointed out that once he got an answer he should stop. On numerous occasions after he asked the question I told him he needed to stop and let the matter drop but he didn't. I believe after a final conversation with him last night, he has finally got the message.

I'm happy to post the IRC logs if that would provide more background.
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Clearly that is not the case as he was doing this only hours ago.

For the record, I am well aware of Govindia's issues. I have been as tolerant as one could be over this past year. Letting him into the NPA despite much criticism, where he did well about half the time. I told him on IRC too many times that I lost count, that it was the only answer I could give him. He does not listen. A conversation you had last night, won't have changed anything.

I'm sorry to say, I've been there and done that. Despite what he says, he is incapable of not re-offending.
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If that's the case then really there's no excuse. I have to mirror what Hileville, McMasterdonia and Blue Wolf are all saying.
 
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