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Vote: Security Council Applications

A tie. Goddammit. I suppose the fair thing to do is to defer to precedent for now and use the current system between the two. A "runoff" so to speak between the two options can be organized, or this can be brought up later in a second set of constitutional revisions if necessary.
 
Unfortunately I must reply to this.

Eluvatar:
1. Security Council members are required by law to have between 50 and ah 304 (as of this writing) endorsements. They are not required to have more endorsements than everyone else. That's the (regularly elected) Vice Delegate. Certainly TNP has No endocap; the SC endorsement limitations apply to SC members only.
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I do not Know of any average TNP citizen that may have up to 304 endorsements

Eluvatar:
2. The SC can report on a threat, but they can't force anybody to act on their report; not the Delegate, not the Regional Assembly. I fail to see how the duty to advise is some kind of dangerous power.
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The SC is influential body with there own personal loyalty's and agendas. there advise can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you enter the S.C. your not suddenly above politics.

Eluvatar:
3. The SC is not the same group of people forever, in practice. Tresville is long gone from it, and my presence in it has been intermittent. Moany Old Gits hasn't been a member in months (though I'd love to see him back), and Ermarian is long gone.
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3 members left wow I stand corrected :tb1:

Joe:
4. Again, what influence?
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see above

Eluvatar:
Any argument claiming an overwhelming influence of the Security Council today would have to focus on the responsibilities its members carry and the contacts they have made outside the institution.
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yes and the Possibility that some members may have more loyalty to other regions then the TNP could also Pose a problem.

Eluvatar:
If your problem is the region even having long-standing members with experience, friendships, and responsibilities... then I must ask you to get a sense of perspective
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The Above is a very patriotic and politically correct statement but the truth is still buried under your false sincerity and self Righteousness

Eluvatar:
.... then I must ask you to get a sense of perspective
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Some one with your perspective is one of the key reasons why the TNP is being hindered from moving forward.
 
peoples empire:
I do not Know of any average TNP citizen that may have up to 304 endorsements
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I do not know, as of writing this, of any TNP citizen with a flag depicting a 400-foot tall purple platypus-bear with pink horns and silver wings. That doesn't mean there's a law banning flags depicting 400-foot tall purple platypus-bears with pink horns and silver wings.

peoples empire:
The SC is influential body with there own personal loyalty's and agendas. there advise can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you enter the S.C. your not suddenly above politics.
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The Delegate is an influential office with its own personal loyalties and agenda. Its executive powers can easily be tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you become Delegate. You're not suddenly above politics.

The Court is an influential body with its own personal loyalties and agendas. Its judicial powers can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you enter the Court. You're not suddenly above politics.

The Speaker is an influential office with its own personal loyalties and agendas. Its procedural powers can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you become Speaker. You're not suddenly above politics.

The Attorney General is an influential office with its own personal loyalties and agendas. Its prosecution powers can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you become Attorney General. You're not suddenly above politics.

The argument you're using is so broad and inherently true of human politics that if it's valid then all offices are inherently suspect, and the only options left are anarchy or handing over all power to Friend Computer in a constitutional robocracy.

peoples empire:
yes and the Possibility that some members may have more loyalty to other regions then the TNP could also Pose a problem.
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Which members and which regions? And if you truly believe, that, why not attempt to recall them?
 
Here we go again...

Gulliver:
I do not know, as of writing this, of any TNP citizen with a flag depicting a 400-foot tall purple platypus-bear with pink horns and silver wings. That doesn't mean there's a law banning flags depicting 400-foot tall purple platypus-bears with pink horns and silver wings.
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:tb1: OK....Good for you.

Gulliver:
The Delegate is an influential office with its own personal loyalties and agenda. Its executive powers can easily be tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you become Delegate. You're not suddenly above politics.

The Court is an influential body with its own personal loyalties and agendas. Its judicial powers can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you enter the Court. You're not suddenly above politics.

The Speaker is an influential office with its own personal loyalties and agendas. Its procedural powers can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you become Speaker. You're not suddenly above politics.

The Attorney General is an influential office with its own personal loyalties and agendas. Its prosecution powers can easily become tainted or corrupted and nothing magical happens when you become Attorney General. You're not suddenly above politics.
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The way you make it sound we should just be comfortable with corruption
and favoritism.

Gulliver:
The argument you're using is so broad and inherently true of human politics that if it's valid then all offices are inherently suspect, and the only options left are anarchy or handing over all power to Friend Computer in a constitutional robocracy.
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or maybe we could actually try to encourage members to run for office that actually attempt to be just, the problem is not human politics in TNP, The problem is when senior members of the Government maintain the Status Quo keeping corruption and favoritism going ,our senior leaders should be a true example of doing the right thing not just maintaining this deceit because its "human Politics"


Gulliver:
Which members and which regions? And if you truly believe, that, why not attempt to recall them?
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Kind of the root of the problem you cant successfully launch a recall against corruption and favoritism when its currently the metaphorical soup dejor, change will take time.
 
peoples empire:
:tb1: OK....Good for you.
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Just because there aren't people with 304 endoes doesn't mean there's a law forbidding it was the point.

peoples empire:
The way you make it sound we should just be comfortable with corruption
and favoritism.
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I never said that. I only pointed out that what you said about the SC can be said about every single government body. If it simply being possible for a government body to be abused is a reason to abolish it, then we'd have to get rid of all of them, because they all can be abused by unscrupulous persons.

peoples empire:
or maybe we could actually try to encourage members to run for office that actually attempt to be just, the problem is not human politics in TNP, The problem is when senior members of the Government maintain the Status Quo keeping corruption and favoritism going ,our senior leaders should be a true example of doing the right thing not just maintaining this deceit because its "human Politics"
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What corruption and favoritism?

peoples empire:
Kind of the root of the problem you cant successfully launch a recall against corruption and favoritism when its currently the metaphorical soup dejor, change will take time.
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Have you even tried? You're setting yourself up for a self-fulfilling prophecy if you haven't. Have you ever considered the possibility that it might not pass because people simply disagree with you, not because of a vast conspiracy? Do you think if you introduced a recall motion and it was seconded that I'd suppress it or something?

Also, again, what outside regions? So far I've seen pure speculation and no hard evidence.
 
I will start a poll, offering the two options and we should go from there. I'd like for this change not to be delayed for too long.
 
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