request of the delgate

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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In anticipation of the re- trial of jal,

Defence requests that the Delegate order the disclosure of any and all correspondence (by pm, tg, irc or any other means) between Felasia (speaker of the RA at the time), Grosseschnauser (security council member) and Eluvatar (Security Council Member) in the period between jal applying for the ra and felasia filing charges against him.

Defence also requests the disclosure of all security council deliberations concerning this matter. We presume that since the issue was a supposed threat to the region the security council was fully involved.

In order not to delay matters more that the attorney general is already doing, we request that the Delegate sets a time limit upon compliance with this request, and penalties for non-compliance.
 
As the acting Delegate i do not think the Delegate has such powers .I think you can petition the chief justice correct me if I am wrong?
 
I am not in favor of executive branch interfering in judiciary .I think chief Justice can take a decision on this. I do not have any Objection.
 
The delegate (acting) says that the Chief Justice should be asked that.

A delegate trumps a justice, so I raise you $20 and see.
 
I object to the request because (1) any PMs would have been in my capacity as an Admin and (2) any such communications were already produced in connection with the prior proceeding that ended in a mistrial, and defense counsel, therefore, already has access to that material.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
I object to the request because (1) any PMs would have been in my capacity as an Admin and (2) any such communications were already produced in connection with the prior proceeding that ended in a mistrial, and defense counsel, therefore, already has access to that material.
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In relation to objection (1) above, gross seems to suggest that because he is an admin, he cannot be required to disclose vital evidence. I would request that the delegate dismiss this argument: citizens who are also admins should not be allowed to hide behind that office.

In relation to objection (2), i have looked back over all 19 pages of the trial and can see no primary evidence presented there of the kind requested in this freedom of information request. If gross thinks differently, perhaps he can point me to the pm's, logs, tg's or transcripts.
 
Pasargad:
I am not in favor of executive branch interfering in judiciary .I think chief Justice can take a decision on this. I do not have any Objection.
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Good God, man.

TNP Law 29:
c) All registered citizens and/or governments residing in The North Pacific have the right to request information from the Government through the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive, and

d) The Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive shall endeavour to retrieve information requested from the different departments of the government, whom are obligated to release this information provided it will not and/or does not present a threat to regional security, and

e) Citizens or governments which do not receive this information for any reason not specifically designated in appropriate laws or regulations may file a request for the information in a regional court, where the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive may present evidence hat addresses any claim that release of the information impairs Regional security.
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I was not at any of the relevant times, an "officer of the Executive" using the language of Law 29. (And while this trial started before and continued after my term as Delegate, the events it purportedly involves was outside the period of my term of office.) I was not appointed by or responsible to the Delegate for any executive function outside my term as Delegate.

Law 29 is limited by its own terms to the Executive branch. I raise this as an additional point. Matters involving Law 28 (which the Court has recently noted, is a legislative function) and its references to the admin are therefore, in that context, a legislative function. And the Court has recently held that the Vice Delegate and the Security Council (under the Constitution and Law 30) are not part of the executive, either.

So I reiterate that I am not subject to the provisions of Law 29 during the relevant period.
 
It's not necessarily clear that TNP Law 29 is limited in application to the executive. It's clear that the executive has the responsibility of implementing it, but it may empower the executive to retrieve information on citizens' behalf from other branches.
 
Law 29 is carried out by the Executive but quite clearly states "information from the Government" not "from the Executive". Which certainly includes the judiciary but may or may not include the forum admin team I guess, I'd suggest it should though.
 
Pasargad:
As the acting Delegate i do not think the Delegate has such powers .I think you can petition the chief justice correct me if I am wrong?
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Well we need to have the chief and associate justices take care of this for the delegate, no?
 
I will state that in my capacity as Attorney General (not Security Council member) there was correspondence between myself and then-speaker Felasia.

I would be happy to provide it publicly with the approval of Felasia or privately if required to as a duty of my office, in compliance with:

Forum Rule 3:
You may not post personal messages in a public area of the forum without the author's permission.

Members of the government, Administrators, and Moderators may post PMs (without prior permission) in secure areas of the forum in order to perform the duties of their office, for matters of regional security, or for moderation evidence.
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Conversation between Eluvatar and Felasia:
[04 Aug 09:01] <Felasia> ... I would like to know though whether why are you asking if JAL is convicted of some crime?
[04 Aug 09:02] <Felasia> Since it's not required by law for him to have been convicted of anything to be rejected, merely that Admin and Speaker should be in agreement
[04 Aug 09:03] * Eluvatar rereads law
[04 Aug 09:04] <Eluvatar> 3. The Speaker will work with the forum Administrators and any Intelligence information provided to the Speaker, to ensure applicant compliance with membership eligibiliy.
[04 Aug 09:04] <Eluvatar> do you mean this?
[04 Aug 09:04] <Felasia> Yes
[04 Aug 09:05] <Eluvatar> If it refers to the first application only then your denial works in that context
[04 Aug 09:06] <Eluvatar> I do not believe there is any noncompliance about the second application
[04 Aug 09:06] <Eluvatar> of course one could now reject it for moving from TNP to TWP >_>
[04 Aug 09:07] <Eluvatar> But I don't think that's the reason you don't want to approve his application.
[04 Aug 09:08] <Felasia> Oh, but I believe the law also state that I should work with admin or any intel existed to ensure that he will come into compliance with membership eligibility... And admin told me I should denied it since he is defenitely a security threat and I'm in agreement
[04 Aug 09:08] <Eluvatar> There is no "security threat" language in the law
[04 Aug 09:08] <Felasia> compliance to membership eligibility requires the nation not to act against the region.
[04 Aug 09:10] <Eluvatar> In the past?
[04 Aug 09:10] <Eluvatar> Where is this stated in the law?
[04 Aug 09:10] <Felasia> let me reread it first
[04 Aug 09:13] <Felasia> I think it is up to how you interpreted the law. As it said that speaker, admin, and intel must ensure applicant compliance which included these laws: 2. Each member Nation will by oath, abide by the Constitution of The North Pacific and The North Pacific Legal Code.
[04 Aug 09:13] <Felasia> 3. Each member Nation shall refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any other nation or region in a manner inconsistent with the Constitution of The North Pacific.
[04 Aug 09:13] <Felasia> So it could be view as security clause
[04 Aug 09:13] <Eluvatar> So, what has the Poo Dynasty done?
[04 Aug 09:13] <Eluvatar> it hasn't threatened anyone
[04 Aug 09:13] <Eluvatar> wait...
[04 Aug 09:14] <Felasia> Poo none? JAL plenty... he did exterminate TNP :P
[04 Aug 09:14] <Eluvatar> the Poo Dynasty is JAL's forum account in tWP
[04 Aug 09:15] <Eluvatar> and he posts his Imperial Legion's updates there
[04 Aug 09:15] <Eluvatar> let's see if I can find a threat there >_>
[04 Aug 09:15] <Felasia> Oh, yeah.
[04 Aug 09:16] <Eluvatar> "Thank you. I hope that our region will be able to wreck a lot of havoc in the near future. lol. "
[04 Aug 09:16] <Eluvatar> eh, that's weak
[04 Aug 09:18] <Felasia> Just out of curiosity doesn't the oath count?
[04 Aug 09:18] <Eluvatar> http://twp.nosync.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=9167&st=0&p=174060&fromsearch=1&#entry174060
[04 Aug 09:18] <Eluvatar> ah here we go
[04 Aug 09:18] <Eluvatar> That counts for the first app
[04 Aug 09:18] <Eluvatar> but not the second app
[04 Aug 09:19] <Felasia> Yeah, but it's document right so it show his intent against the region?
[04 Aug 09:20] <Eluvatar> He then said it was a joke
[04 Aug 09:20] <Eluvatar> and I don't think it would stand up in court as a binding promise to be evil
[04 Aug 09:21] <Eluvatar> I think a stronger argument would be the thing I linked to
[04 Aug 09:21] <Felasia> Yeah, more like evidence of my lack of sleep
[04 Aug 09:22] <Eluvatar> the Poo Dynasty is Durkadurkiranistan II, and Durkadurkiranstan II does *not* refrain from the threat or use of force
[04 Aug 09:22] <Eluvatar> I think it'd be more fun to have a actual trial of JAL though
[04 Aug 09:23] <Felasia> Could be, but aren't you asking about charging me? :P
[04 Aug 09:23] <Eluvatar> I'm reasonable
[04 Aug 09:24] <Eluvatar> I'd charge you if and only if you insisted on denying without explanation
[04 Aug 09:24] <Eluvatar> You've said you are taking that clause as justification
[04 Aug 09:24] <Eluvatar> and I'm inclined to accept that unless further prodded
[04 Aug 09:24] <Eluvatar> I do advise you taht the strongest guarantee of your own protection from court is to have him put on trial ;)
[04 Aug 09:25] <Felasia> Could be fun, not a really great time though. My term ends in a month
[04 Aug 09:25] <Eluvatar> I'd be doing the trying
[04 Aug 09:25] <Eluvatar> you'd just have to file the complaint
[04 Aug 09:25] <Eluvatar> and have the complaint as your justification for not accepting the second app
[04 Aug 09:26] <Felasia> Could work, any suggestion?
[04 Aug 09:27] <Eluvatar> You can link to that post and state that the Poo Dynasty is Durkadurkiranistan II and you are accusing it of Treason on thsoe grounds
[04 Aug 09:28] <Felasia> Does this need form or can I just write it in the same way as the first one?
[04 Aug 09:30] <Felasia> Also if we are digging up the past, almost everyone have "connection" with some sort of coup including me
[04 Aug 09:40] <Eluvatar> Crimson was amnestied
[04 Aug 09:40] <Felasia> Really.. wow, I never know that
[04 Aug 09:44] <Eluvatar> http://s13.zetaboards.com/TNP/topic/6772740/
[04 Aug 09:44] <Eluvatar> er
[04 Aug 09:46] <Eluvatar> http://s13.zetaboards.com/TNP/single/?p=216775&t=6772740
[04 Aug 09:46] <Eluvatar> that refers to the amnesty
[04 Aug 09:48] <Felasia> How is this:"I would like to formally lodge a complaint against John Ashcroft Land (aka. The Pool Dynasty) for treason based on his past action as the NPPA leader (http://twp.nosync.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=9167&st=0&p=174060&fromsearch=1&#entry174060)and also for ejecting 800+ nations from the North Pacific without reasons."
[04 Aug 09:50] <Eluvatar> http://s13.zetaboards.com/TNP/topic/634248/1/#post214157
[04 Aug 09:50] <Eluvatar> there we go
[04 Aug 09:50] <Eluvatar> and yes that would work
[04 Aug 09:55] <Felasia> And done
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flemingovia:
In anticipation of the re- trial of jal,

Defence requests that the Delegate order the disclosure of any and all correspondence (by pm, tg, irc or any other means) between Felasia (speaker of the RA at the time), Grosseschnauser (security council member) and Eluvatar (Security Council Member) in the period between jal applying for the ra and felasia filing charges against him.
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Request granted, release the hounds.
 
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