News from the Delegate

So, as I don't want to make the region think that I've been neglecting my duties or whatever, I want to post this update here to roughly say what's been going on. The fact that I am posting this here is a big step on my part, and I want to show you all that I do care for you lot (also, this is done on the recommendation of one of my friends who has been helping me out over the past couple days), given my usual paranoid tendencies to withhold information regarding myself from people both in RL and here in NS. This message is not to be seen as one issued by "Dalimbar" or "Chodean Kal", but as Drew, the player behind both of those characters (along with Lady Anastasia, and my other puppets).

To put it bluntly, for the past few weeks (even before I became Delegate, or even considered running for the position), I have been experiencing some medical problems that are not exactly life-threatening at this time, yet concerning to me at the same time. I do not wish to, for hopefully obvious reasons, state what exactly it is, but I do wish that people understand that I am at this point getting treatment, and will be in consultation with my doctor about what the hell happens next.

I do not plan to step down from the Delegacy, but should there be additional problems, I will properly notify the region of the fact, and hand things over to Blackshear. I am just wanting to keep things on my end slower until I am back up and running on full speed. I understand if some are disappointed that I have not pursued the agenda I campaigned on with as much gusto as people may have liked, and for that I am sorry. I just want to make this region an awesome place to be, and I will try to spend as much time as I can working for you. I also apologize to those who were secretly wanting me to coup, or whatever. I don't have the energy to do stuff like that right now.

I am typically on #tnp on esper.net, for those who wish to get in touch with me directly. Feel free to harass me there for things.

Cheers!
Drew (aka Dalimbar, Chodean Kal, Lady Anastasia, etc)

Dang. Hope you're feeling better soon.

To quote my good friend OPArsenal, RL>NS. Get well soon, Drew.

~ Jeff

Sorry to hear that, I hope you get better soon.

D., you certainly have my hopes and prayers that this works out just fine, and Lieb sends a "get well soon" lick.

Thanks so much for the update Drew! Get better soon!

All the best mate - you've been a quality delegate so far

get well soon

Alright, I'm going to try to get back to harassing you lot on the forum. What I need from you guys is to poke me if I do go AWOL for a few days. I'm here, and every day I can be found on our IRC channel, but I would like to know what everyone wants to see from the region. If you have ideas, suggestions, orders, etc, I want to hear about that.

I realized today over a conversation I had with a TNP member that frankly, I am bored. I notice other regions debating and collaborating with each other over their own frameworks that guide their communities, and frankly, I believe it is about time we did that here. To put it one way, I am interested in proposing removing enough of the Constitution and other legal documents to allow us to a complete re-write of the documents. I will be proposing that the RA stay the way it is, as I envision that the RA as it is structured now will serve as a good ground for a Constitutional Convention. I also will not be removing term limits or electoral procedures for the Delegate, Vice Delegate, or Speaker. Frankly, if this bill I am working on passes, and we do go into a Constitutional Convention, if we extend discussions past the usual time for the General and Delegate elections, then I will be more than happy to personally either run for re-election or not campaign, depending on how I am personally feeling at that time.

I will not be making this proposal until this weekend, as I do wish to give enough time to see if this idea is popular with the region, and what else should be included. Should this venture fail, I promise the region that I will not take steps to unilaterally attempt to implement my will. I want this to be an open and democratic process, as in the past any attempt to scrap the Constitution has left us with it still on the table, as the white elephant. We need something to suit the times, and I believe that through a proper Constitutional Convention, via the Regional Assembly, we are all able to collaborate and discuss what we all need for our region.

I'm not convinced that the region needs a constitutional convention.
While the current constitution was quite flawed when it was adopted, it has been amended piece-by-piece in order to fix the non-insubstantial defects it contained when it barely won ratification to replace the prior Constitution, which was the direct product of a constitutional convention.
To this day, I'm not sure when should have abandoned that prior document, as many of the contentious issues we have had to address as being the result from going from a well-sorted document to the current one, and it has taken, it seems, forever to fix this one up sufficiently.

If there is an issue in the current constitution that needs debate, it is the structure of the executive branch, and whether the Delegate should continue to be both head of government and head of state. The last constitution, I think, worked well in the sense that we separated those two roles; what did not work so well is coming up with a satisfactory way of dealing with the structure of the executive branch.

I'm not convinced that the Delegate should be the head of government. When we moved away from the system of the last constitution, where the Delegate was head of state, and there was an elected Prime Minister who headed the Cabinet and was the head of government. We were told that giving the Delegate the responsibility of the Prime Minister would may the position meaningful and of value, but I think the history of TNP during this constitution strongly suggests that theory has not worked.

I view my responsibility as being not only to those who join the Regional Assembly, but to the residents of this community in TNP as a whole. I would argue that what we need is a revision of the structure of the Executive Branch of Government, and only that. If there is a problem, that is where it is. The overly flexible system that was given the Delegate has not worked. It has created problems of consistency and continuity. And that, and that alone, is what we need to address.

It is not up to you or me or individuals to decide things like this, Gross. This is for the entire Regional Assembly, as representatives of the region, to decide. Hence why I acknowledge your statement, the same statement that has been around since we had this constitution. This one had a good run, in effect taking shape in the negotiations between myself and the old RA and then further developments after I stepped down in 2007. But that's the thing. It was born in 2007. There are not many of us left in this forum who can claim that they were around for my first Delegacy, never mind for Pixiedance or Great Bight.

I look at TWP and quirk an eyebrow when some are suggesting there is doing an Imperial system of government. I really don't care what they do, but frankly, I've seen how that sort of thing works in a feeder, and it gets stale fast. So, I'm not going to propose that in any Constitutional Convention that may or may not happen, if we as a Regional Assembly decide to have one. In effect, what I really would love to see is less government and more room for activity. Allowing people to create their own activities without worrying about stepping on the toes of any of the branches of government.

So Gross, what do we have to lose by talking about this? Is it such a tragic thing to at least discuss the idea, without being beaten around with the book? For all I know, when I do go to the RA this weekend to make the proposal, and then the weeks of discussion and fear mongering involved like usual, I probably will end up the loser in this. But, what harm is there to at least discuss making substantial changes? I've already said that we'll keep the back bones of our tradition: the RA will be kept as it is during this time, and I will not be proposing any changes to the electoral calendar or term limitations.

Who was the Speaker when the current constitution was adopted?

And who had to marshal three competing proposals at that time?

Not to mention that I was also involved in the organization and operation of the Constitutional Convention held in the aftermath of Pixiedance.

So? I'm trying to get your point, Gross. Are you saying that we shouldn't do anything just because you are here? Or what?

Dalimbar:

In effect, what I really would love to see is less government and more room for activity. Allowing people to create their own activities without worrying about stepping on the toes of any of the branches of government.

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I agree (and have always agreed) with this sentiment. As one of the few players left who operated in government in the pre-Constitutional days, I believe the current system actually kills activity and creativity. There is a better way and that is not just conjecture. I have seen it here and elsewhere.

Let's have a discussion. If the majority prefer the status quo, then so be it. If the majority advocate change, then lets do our jobs and help make that a reality. If we are here to truly serve the region, then let's listen to what its members have to say. To do less is a disservice to those we represent.

Where was all this vitrol when Flem wanted to toss out the Constitution ? It was okay then, but not now ? I didn't see any complaints against ditching the constitution in the discussion threads before Flem's election. Nor during Flem's campaign. It was okay to discuss then, but not now ? What gives ?

I don't get it.

I don't understand the point you're trying to get across Grosse....the Constitutional Convention after Pixiedance was a nightmare. Drove me nuts, was terribly disappointing and excruciatingly managed. Plenty of blame for that on all sides. Enough verbage to choke an elephant and create an inactive region. I was in that Concon and I had served on both sides of that conflict. I helped lead the liberation, helped Stars surf the update to keep from losing her endorsements. I was one of the leaders of the liberation of TNP from both Great Bight and Pixiedance. So if we want to compare resume's, we can do that, but I see no point in it. Mainly because that was then, and this is now.

TNP was suffering from PTSD from the results of both the UPS Rail/Great Bight Event and the Pixiedance/Ivan/Insane Power Event. It's understandable that the region sought to constrain the delegacy after all it had been through. But in doing so, it created the era of successive Rogue delegates. The community withdrew and refused to be active in the game, yet it had all the authority. The delegate was forbidden from doing anything, yet had the ingame authority. Thus the conflict between delegate and community was created. You created your own hell.

That Concon created this lingering conflict. So in '07 we tried to repair that damage. Ended up with multiple proposals that were all poor and the discussion should never have been allowed to go on for six months. That was ridiculous. The Speaker should have moved to votes months before they finally occurred. Slowing things to a snails crawl destroys activity.

But that was then, and this is now. Dali is our delegate and wants to see an active and vital TNP. I want the same thing. I would imagine that new members would want to find this an active place too. Yet you snap Dali's head off as if he was an enemy, when he just wants to help the region and community, and help make NS a game worth playing again.

You didn't do that to Flem when he suggested more drastic action than Dali is suggesting. That's hypocritical. You're playing favorites.

No one is threatening to destroy the community here. Rather players want to see it more active. We want to see TNP be the way it once was. An active and vital member of the NS world. That won't happen if we're going to be forever buried in the sands of the past.

You've got to stop fighting the people that want to help TNP.

The Vitrol was there when I suggested it, Westwind, just, perhaps, more behind the scenes by pm and chat than on a forum thread.

You will also note that, in the end, I did not pursue chucking out the constitution. I sensed that there was little appetite for yet another round of navel-gazing and introspection. Instead I simply did not appoint a government. I felt that was more honest than to appoint a cabinet who have shiny badges but do bugger all. In Dalimbar's "state council" there are a few who are working hard but more who are inactive. Unless I am missing something, some of them have barely posted since taking their oath of office. Offers to help the state council have gone unacknowledged, let alone taken up.

I feel that Dali's energies would be better spent clearing up this aspect of his government. He has been inactive recently due to health issues, but in a cabinet system that should simply have meant that other members of the government took up the slack. That has not happened, and sorting that out should, perhaps, be Dali's more pressing priority.

That's fair enough.

It's a constant problem in NS, that we hope Ministers and deputies will step up to the plate when the top leaders are unavailable or unable to perform their duties. Too often no one steps up to take a leading role to prevent the resultant inactivity.

What I've said before and I am saying now is that the issue is the the structure of the Executive branch of the government; not the legislative (R.A.), not the judiciary, and not the S.C., which we're in the process of refining in R.A. discussions.

And I do not believe we need a constitutional convention to address the actual core of the problem, period.

Flem, I was pre-occupied with some RL things when you ran for Delegate so I wasn;t aware of your campaign promise in that election until afterwards. Had I been aware of it, I would have made the exact same criticism I am making now.

The real issue is how to structure executive power, no more and no less. There's a serious problem with the current approach (way too flexible to the point that the general attitude seems to be to let the Delegate do everything) just as the criticism under the last Constitution was that the executive provisions in the Constitution were too detailed.

First off, I want to say I appreciate all the hard work and the many hours that have been put into creating the constitution which is currently in place. I consider the region fortunate to have the dedication of so many talented nations.

Given the current conditions in TNP, I have no problem looking at changing the constitution, particularly with respect to both the executive branch and the judiciary. I am looking forward to seeing what Dali has in mind.

Westwind, the constitutional revision only began to pick up steam in 2007 after I was elected in a special election to become Speaker.
I then set out a clear process to give the proponents of all three versions a full opportunity to hash out their proposals in debate and discussion and then put them all to a simultaneous vote.
As it was, the current Constitution only achieved the required majority because I cast the vote to give it that majority, even though I disagreed personally with all three proposals. I've said since then that I think I should not have voted to ratify it, because it had so many problems as shown by the fact that it has taken years to fix.

As to rogue Deleates, we've had far more of them under this Constitution that the one that came out of the last Constitutional Convention, so i suppose that is an argument for re-instating the last Constitution; but I'll settle for addressing the lack of structure in the Executive Branch.

GBM,I've gone through the discussion in this thread, and I don't find any issues being raised with the judiciary. It took a long time to piece through a process for trials that avoided the many problems that existed when the system had virtually no guideposts to follow, and to bring to an end the results of the lack of a useful procedure to keep trials on track and held in a relatively quick time frame. Are there further issues that have been overlooked? I don't know since we haven't had any judicial proceedings since the current rules were adopted last year. It may well be that such a lack is a good sign, not a bad one because it directly dealt with the games that some sought to play with every court proceeding so that trials were never completed. A three judge judiciary is about as small as can be fair to all concerned, so I don't know that we can reduce things any further. And having the AG in the Executive kept creating more problems than it solved, so having an elected AG in the judicial branch seems to be the best model we can hope for.

Any government with delegate elections is going to get couped over and over again.

If it is stability and security you seek then consider appointing someone like flem, GBM, or Erastide (if she were around) as delegate (head of state only) for life, then have a separate elected prime minister position to lead the regional government. Like the RL British or Japanese constitutional monarchies in a sense.

Of course, that system of government would probably be really boring.

I remember the process well. I helped Monte Ozarka write the current constitution before she presented it and then she made changes to try to compromise with others. And I voted against all the constitutional proposals. I was surprised when you choose to make the deciding vote.

So I know that neither of us had any great love for this constitution, regardless of our participation in it's creation or passage. *chuckles*

LOL. I don't even remember making the deciding vote to be honest. At the time it didn't seem like a terrible idea. At least it was an improvement over the previous constitution. If TNP were to re-implement the old Const with its 700 elected ministries I think it would be a total disaster.

Personally I feel like you need activity to support democracy; the more active the region the more democracy can work. TNP has been so inactive the past few years that it hasn't been able adequately supports its democratic government structure. One of the things I liked about Equilism's Confederation constitution was that it had population benchmarks to trigger various democratic elements; I've never understood why people hated that document so much.

JAL, I believe Westwind was responding to me, not you on the deciding vote comment.

I think the point of contention really is centered on the Executive and the Cabinet, and what model we want to have in place. We have two models, as represented by the current and the prior Constitutions, as well as the potential for alternatives between those benchmarks. (It's hard to imagine that the pendulum would swing further in either direction than we has in these last two Constitutions, so I think the metaphor is apt.)

I think the point that we need stability to encourage the community to participate is apt, as well. That's one reason I've been working to iron out the numerous stumbling blocks that were originally in the 2007 Constitution. We also had to come to terms with the fact that the current constitution, in its original form, provided too many ways to stalemate and put up roadblocks as far as doing anything. I think we've got it to a better shape to permit action that it was in 2007.

JAL, I believe Westwind was responding to me, not you on the deciding vote comment.

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*nods* Yes, I was writing when JAL posted, so didn't see his post till afterwards. Sometimes takes me awhile to write and make corrections before I post these days.

In the process of trying to empower the delegate, the structure of the Executive was removed to allow each delegate to try different themes. If we can agree on a structure or framework for the Executive, while allowing for delegate creativity and policy, it might be helpful overall. And I see no reason why we couldn't find something agreeable.

The real problems aren't structures, governments, or power distribution, it's lack of activity. Inactivity in the delegacy, the executive, the assembly and the community. Any region's activity level is effected by all of these. You are right that we've removed alot of the roadblocks. If we can empower both the Executive and the Assembly to have a joint responsibility for activity in the region, it'd be more beneficial.

Give the Delegate the authority to remove inactive officials if they've been gone unannounced for 28 days, and give the Assembly the authority to do the same. Or rather legislate a mandate for removal after 28 days. Ensure the Assembly can remove and replace an inactive delegate sooner rather than later, and without a long process. This does place a responsibility to carry out removal of inactives, and sometimes there aren't many around that might even notice it needs to be done. So it's still subject to the whims community activity levels.

Maybe try more of a Head of State/Head of Government system with the Delegate as Head of State able to set policy and represent TNP, and the Speaker being the Head of Government. The government being able to remove an inactive delegate, and the delegate being able to remove an inactive government. Just have to define what constitutes 'inactive' for those purposes.

Equilism's Confederation constitution .....I've never understood why people hated that document so much.

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It was self-contradictory, and it's original intent was lost. Authorities that were suppose to belong to Chauce, ended up belonging to Nai, and Nai wasn't comfortable using those authorities. And Chauce couldn't act with the decisiveness he needed. If I recall correctly, those population triggers were never triggered.

Any government with delegate elections is going to get couped over and over again.

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I wouldn't go quite that far. Though, NationStates regions are dictatorial oligarchies by gamecode design. We just dress up that reality with the democratic structures we accept. But I think at least less frequent delegacy changes would add to our stability.

And just to bring the point home, coups have tended to push many away from the region, and not bring players into the region.

If those who are here can see more rather than fewer opportunities to participate (creating activity in other words) and have a stable platform from which to do so, then we're more likely to encourage activity. This is true even with the non-government areas of the forums, which historically were the strong suit of TNP.

I'm aware of that and haven't forgotten that. One thing I do want to see revived is the regional map. Both here and elsewhere, that aspect of activity does seem to encourage things but you do have to have an active cartographer, and there has to be a feeling of stability to make the role play work.

As a speaker, I welcome any chance to allow the Regional Assembly to have a said in their region including the law and legislation currently in effect. I think it would be more beneficial to the region to have a constitution review then not to have it.