Anarchy is fun, but...

Romanoffia

Romanoffia

Garde à l'eau!
While the current state of syncopated pandemonium in The North Pacific is quite entertaining, it's rapidly growing disgusting.

I've not been active in TNP or NS for an extended time now, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been looking in from time to time. I've been just shaking my head in utter disgust to see the degenerate state TNP and the government on this forum has achieved at this point.

This is a new low. In fact, it is the lowest point I have seen it, ever. However, I do commend those responsible for this latest act of rogue-ism for actually producing a situation that has poked me out of my inactivity in TNP. I can see that it is quite apparent that a lot of 'old timers' as well as new comers have left either the region or NS altogether, throwing their hands up in disgust. I can't blame them. I might have done the same were it not for one thing: I've met a lot of good people here in NS and especially in TNP and I would hate to see that community of people disband.

I may be tilting and windmills here, but I think that it's high time that those of us who actually give a damn take the reins and start rebuilding that community and rebuild our region.

Is anybody listening?
 
Being somewhat new to this Assembly I think it was a great activity booster, but I do think we have to chose what course we want to take. Do we want to rebuild our image into the respectable region that it once was, or do we want to become the Bad Boys of the Feeders?

Then we act accordingly.
 
I think there is a danger that people assume that activity and community are the same thing. Over the years I have seen many stunts that have provided a temporary spike in activity. Almost without exception they have, in the long term, left the region weaker and less active than before. Look at many of the more active regions in the top 10, including feeders like TEP and TWP and you will see that the foundation of their activity is the patient building of a community, not the occasional zap of a defibrillator prank trying to jolt some activity into something otherwise moribund.

So I am pretty much with Roman on this one.
 
@ Skywalker1:

I don't think it really boosted activity other than to drag back a few of us old-timers who sank into inactivity for one reason or another. I also don't think it damaged TNP's image in NS other than to promote the general historical fact that TNP seems to be the premier battleground for rogues and other quaint forms of power mongers and pranksters.


@ Pasargad:

I think we can recover #1 status in a month or two once we correct the situation by going over our entire system of government and work out how to prevent this from happening again.

I am optimistic that we can rebuild the region very quickly, but we need to change a few things in the way we run things governmentally. We need to trim down government size so that inactivity doesn't cause chaos yet give as much opportunity to those who wish to participate as possible.

@ Flem -

What we need to do, IMHO, is to simplify the Government structure, simplify the forum and make this a hub for not only the region, but of NS in general.

For some odd reason, The North Pacific has been the target of rogues, pranksters and all manner of destructive characters and that had me thinking as to why that is. I finally figured it out: as a whole, we are too nice, to tolerant and we take things too seriously at times. But we have the ultimate advantage - we always pull together and win in the end. All we have left to accomplish is to excel in surviving and promoting our ideal that TNP should be a fun and active place to be regardless of the occasional turmoil.

So, I say, let's get our act together, put a delegate in position who will keep the region stable until we can reorganize and then get the show on the road.

We will survive as we have always survived. We will rebuild again and be the premier region again. Will we have things like this happen again? Sure, it's a certainty but we will survive and be number one once again.
 
I have no objection to "stunts" and "pranks", but all they provide is a quick jolt. Unless we do something, this latest quick jolt will die down and we'll sink back into the morass of apathy.
 
Romanoffia:
we take things too seriously at times.
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What an absurd notion! Don't you realize how important having the most nations of any region is? I shudder to think what a laughing-stock this region has become due to John Ashcroft Land's puerile and impulsive action...and here you sit suggesting we take things "too seriously"! It's just...difficult to believe that. Everything is just so tied up with the in-game experience, and that nation count is so important to who we are, I just cringe to imagine the ripple effect this will have on our regional forum and community. :no:

Edit: Has anyone brought JAL up on charges? We should get a case going against him now so we can have a verdict by the new year.
 
Democratic Donkeys:
Romanoffia:
we take things too seriously at times.
Click to expand...
What an absurd notion! Don't you realize how important having the most nations of any region is? I shudder to think what a laughing-stock this region has become due to John Ashcroft Land's puerile and impulsive action...and here you sit suggesting we take things "too seriously"! It's just...difficult to believe that. Everything is just so tied up with the in-game experience, and that nation count is so important to who we are, I just cringe to imagine the ripple effect this will have on our regional forum and community. :no:

Edit: Has anyone brought JAL up on charges? We should get a case going against him now so we can have a verdict by the new year.
Click to expand...
I largely agree, but I don't think the damage will amount to much in a month or so once we reorganize and go on our merry way. Like I said, I'm an optimist.

We just have to restructure a few things to assure that something similar never happens again. That's a tough task, but I think it can be accomplished if we look at our own history. We keep making the same mistakes time and time again. Anyone who points out this trait of TNP is usually ignored or dismissed as a malcontent, etc.,,,

The point is that over the years we have tried the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. How many times have we had rogues trash out region? It's time we take a long look at the reasons why TNP is the perennial target of such schemes and attacks. I have a few opinions of why this happens, some of which I will keep to myself, but they all fall under the heading of we are all too nice and too tolerant. I don't suggest that we even contemplate a more authoritarian method of keeping things going, but rather we need to simplify and streamline the regional government and then actually keep it that way.

It seems that we always start out to keep things simple and streamline and then it just expands from there, we move to the left and our own liberal mentality and constitution gets exploited by the next rogue that comes down the pike. And then we just sit there wondering what went wrong.

What we do need is a power structure that cannot be dislodged very easily. I suggested in the past that we have council of nations with sufficient 'influence' that can remove rogues should the need arise. We need an order succession of Delegate authority as a matter of defense should the need to repel invaders and usurpers. We also need a sufficient number of nations endorsing a delegate so that should the need arise, those endorsements can be removed so as to remove a rogue delegate. Such a scheme could also facilitate an instant and orderly transfer of power when it's time to change delegate under normal and periodic situations (elections).

We need minimal government with minimal positions and we don't need to expand the government with a plethora of ministries just to pass on power with the intent of being 'all inclusive'. Power, unlike manure, is no good if you spread it around too thinly - mainly because someone out there will just scoop it up little by little and turn over the whole pile.

A constitution with checks and balances is fine, but mechanically speaking those checks and balances we have tried to implement have always lacked teeth. It is absolutely necessary that we implement a mechanical system in which the mechanics of the NS world can be used to put teeth in the mouth that speaks idealistic virtues. And it can be done.
 
We have a mechanical system, the problem is that it only really works in the long haul. In the short term a determined rogue could get foreign backing and kick low-influence nations.
 
The essential problem is in the game mechanics. It is absurd to design a game where months or years of hard work can be undone by an afternoon of childishness, or where a region built up over years can be invaded and trashed.

Roman says that this latest stunt has woken some oldtimers up. I have heard from others whose response has been to take a long and hard look at the game and consider whether it is actually worth playing.
 
When I started noticing the greater NSverse around me, sometime around Pixiedance, I heard from many who said that stunt was causing them to take a long hard look at the game and consider whether it was worth playing or not.

I ask now, as I did then: If you don't think it's worth playing, what on earth are you hanging around whining about?

Long hard looks at the game are good things, IMHO. Because, honestly, if the game isn't worth it, we need to get out more and find better things to do.

I'm still hanging around because it's worth it to me.



It's because of the community.

I'm just sayin'


I'll butt out now.
 
I don't see how ejecting a thousand inactives constitutes "destroying months of work" if they were active in TNP they moved back.
 
Sure, someone can whack in a moment something that took years to build. But the whackers can be whacked just as easily. All it takes is the cooperation of a lot of little nations or the cooperation of a handful of big nations with sufficient influence.

I've said in the past - give me sufficiently trusted 'influential' nation to elect delegate, 20 highly 'influential' nations to support the delegate and sufficient minnow nations with RA status and we could make TNP absolutely impervious to invaders and other thugs. Clearly, what we have been doing for the past several years has only resulted in the same chaos mainly because it doesn't exploit the mechanics of the NSverse. We need to identify in no uncertain terms exactly why TNP is the main target as opposed to other feeders. This may be an unpopular theory I am about to propose, but we need to take the best organizational and motivational methods used by a region like Gatesville and combine it with the best attributes that the TNP has and create a new paradigm that uses NS mechanics as a tool rather than something to work around.

Our primary concern in TNP is TNP. Call in enlightened self interest, but we need to plan and act in a way that promotes our progress, development and success as the primary motivation of what we do. Build a better region and nations will come here and stay here. Don't give invaders and spoilers a toe in the door. Hold the region fast and strong by concentrating our efforts instead of spreading ourselves thin. They key is in 'influential' nations and helping the smaller nations attain high levels of 'influence'.
 
JAL never needed invades because he wasn't trying to hold on to the position.

There is no way to implement a prior restraint against the Delegate ejecting uninfluential nations.
 
Democratic Donkeys:
The problem isn't invaders, these recent actions were all completed by the elected delegate.
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*Bell Rings* Give the man a prize! :winner:

And that's why I say institute a 'Guardian' system of influential nations and add to it a Delegate that is not as influential as the next in line.

Thank you for pointing out something that I neglected to look at closely enough.

If you want a strong delegate, you need to elect someone who is beyond any suspicion of going rogue (and there are a handful of nations that I can honestly say fall into that category in my book) - or you elect a somewhat un-influential nation that if they do go rogue, they can't do much damage (because they expend influence in the process).

And - in the event that a delegate is needed to really remove invaders, etc.,,, you have a line of succession in which the reins can be passed so as to prevent any one nation holding the delegacy from being totally expended.

Essentially what I am proposing is a system in which you have a 'Peace Delegate' of nominal 'influence' who maintains the region in peace who holds the position and a 'War Delegate' with mega-influence who can be handed the reins of power in a flash if needs be. And a succession of 'War Delegates' to take over quickly. Of course this means being able to have a cadre of nations that maintain very close endorsement levels, but that's not really a difficult task.

Right now, the Delegacy is up for grabs. I would suggest that the more trusted and influential nations amongst us get ready to stop a power grab before it happens.
 
That's a fine theory, but didn't JAL have very little influence before being elected? Delegate influence accrues fairly quickly, and rogues seem to always be a danger.
 
I am also concerned about our extremely vulnerable position. NK's endorsement level is frighteningly low. We need to be vigilant for any tarts in the region, and any signs of troop movements. Also, it would be a good idea to alert our allies to our possible need for outside support.

A determined rogue could run the region down to FEC, Unter, me and a handful of invaders. Not a pretty thought.

I'd be interested in some scanner info showing endos given and received, as well as influence levels.
 
Good analysis Mum. That's one reason why Delegate terms need to be fairly short in duration. A rogue wouldn't be able to run down a region to just a handful of stronger nations as successfully as one might thing considering that when the population of a region drops, so does the relative and actual 'influence' of the Delegate.

If a rogue starts popping off big nations first his influence is demolished very quickly and he is at the mercy of minnow nations eating him up one bite at a time. History shows that an unpopular Delegate under active siege eventually falls in a relatively short time if the pressure is maintained and he falls quicker than a popular Delegate under the same kind of attack.

Once a nation goes rogue it is usually a done nation in NS. My theory is that those who go Rogue as Delegates are essentially trying to leave the game with a bang whether they realize it or not - sort of a latent suicidal tendency or something like that. Everybody tries to come up with endorsement campaigns to put and keep a Delegate in power but rarely if ever does anyone try to apply an un-endorsement scheme to remove not only Rogue Delegates but to give an incentive for Delegates not to go rogue. Either scheme takes just the same amount of effort but with the caveat that whatever scheme applies their effort first will always have a slight advantage. In either instance, constant vigilance is required and the defender always has the advantage insofar as all they have to do is survive quietly until the Rogue makes a mistake by not being eternally vigilant.

A tactic I would use against a Rogue (and it has been successfully applied in other user regions over the years) is to simply lend bogus support to the Rogue or non-resistance tactics. Hence, Caesar crosses the Rubicon, seizes Rome and kills the Republic, becomes and Emperor, gets lured to the Senate chamber where he is turned into a pin cushion by those he though were his allies. In our context, we simply support the Rogue in such a way that he unwittingly becomes utterly dependent on people he may or may not trust but otherwise must depend upon for support. He is then at the mercy of any number of clever people who can then remove the support any time it becomes necessary. The process can be quick or slow but requires the ability of a lot of people to be willing to engage in a certain amount back-stabbing of the Rogue and his real supporters.

IOW, given the mechanics involved (which are a certainty and not a variable) the victory will go to either the strong or viciously smart and sneaky types.
 
Hi everyone,

These are nice ideas. I particularly like the one about a smaller forum. I haven't any idea what all those different sections are for.

And there are lots of big influential regions to keep an eye on things.
 
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