Honest Dissent

Maybe so, but this government has been hellishly inactive as of the past few months. A change might do us well and there is no harm in trying it seeing as we have very little to lose.
 
Sydia:
For the uninformed, am I to understand the Meritocracy recruited players offsite?
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The Merit decided to expand into other gaming realms and the community started to play Ikariam and NS2. It did not go off site to bring players into NS. Rather the new games they started playing brought in new members to the community. It gives people the option to find other interest if a specific game goes through a decline.
 
Hey you can roll your eyes all you want Syd but that doesn't change the fact that every day TNP is becoming more and more like TSP, which has a very small core of players that has been around for ever, a horribly inactiver government, and never accepts anything new into their system *ever*.

I, for one, don't want to see us become the next South Pacific.
 
BW, every feeder has gotten that way, not just TSP.

Look at the small group still talking on TWP, and the even smaller group that runs TP.

This is an NS-problem.
 
Not every feeder Khark. You forget about The East Pacific.


The West Pacific's problems are very recent, The North Pacific's are not. Let's stay fixed upon one feeder at a time, shall we?
 
Outer Kharkistania:
The East Pacific is an RP region.

I've tried to get RP started here in The North many times, and it hasn't worked. What works in TEP has no bearing on us.
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Like you, i'm all for RP.

The problem is two fold:

1. trying to get others to get out of their damn bubbles and RP NS RPs with people experienced in this area who can help mod the place, like myself and Khark. I'm more than willing to help but we need to get interest.

2. Maps for the region. We need a map mod who's active enough to keep maintaining an RP map. Eluvatar was, then he dropped off the radar ....

We need to be willing to modernise and change on various levels without being stubborn or thinning ourselves :ADN:
 
Outer Kharkistania:
The East Pacific is an RP region.

I've tried to get RP started here in The North many times, and it hasn't worked. What works in TEP has no bearing on us.
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TNP has RP roots though. At one time we role played often. I don't know what u tried but it doesn't hurt to tweak that a lil and try again.

We became more political due to the ADN and our own deep rooted rogues like Cath and IP. Ask many of the old timers that decided to stay in regions like Lemuria and SOS. The politics and our high level of political gameplay (Invader/defender wars, NPD etc) and seriousness drove people away.

I have never been a die hard Role Player. But I would participate on occasion because that's what the community enjoyed. The fact that people used and abused the duality in Role Play to get away with plots against the government made me dislike RP here. People began to use it to prevent from being prosecuted for their actions...saying that since that's just another character they could not be found guilty. But for a long time I would always participate in our RP Award Ceremonies (the first ones were much fun) and the role play in the Cafe and shops.

We have gotten past being bitter and over protective as I knew we would. We can bring all that stuff back and RP with other regions in specific areas and not mix it with politics. We can preserve the identitya/history we made for ourselves after we broke away from our ADN dependency....change and grow to attract old and new back.

Players like Eurosoviets, Dark, Advanced Weaponry, Dani, Nastic and many others may find an improved atmosphere here attractive. New players will as well. We can revamp and not lose our history here. This forum will not be lost if we move unless Flem shuts it down for good (which I doubt he would). Even S2 is still online.

Lets experiment with other games. Lets join The Merit in Ikariam if we find that we like it. Lets play with TWP or IDU in NS2 if we try and like that. Lets join fellow members in WOW or XBOX Live games. Lets have RP events with TEP and any other die hard RP region. We can do that via embassies or hold events. Let us keep the parts of the constitution like the Bill of rights and the RA and do away with all those other positions that we currently have no need for or rather aren't using. Lets do and try things that we all come on line for...music, gaming, chatting role playing. Lets keep this community alive and growing and not implode in on ourselves or shrivel down to a few old folgie players that won't think out the box.
 
Well, then we should open a Steam group.

Incidentally, when you move to many different games, particularly shooter types, you become what's called a "clan", which sounds cool.
 
Its mainly for electronic games, particularly those produced by Valve such as Half Life, Team Fortress, and Portal but various other developers use it as well.

The steam groups allow users to chat with each other, and even allows players to do so while playing a Valve game; I'm not sure if its the same for other games as well.
 
The East Pacific is an RP region.

I've tried to get RP started here in The North many times, and it hasn't worked. What works in TEP has no bearing on us.
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Well we can always whine that nothing will work and therefore not even borther trying, that will fix the problem fast.


...or we can try some new things and see what happens. Hmm, do nothing; do something, which will get better results?
 
Blue Wolf II:
The East Pacific is an RP region.

I've tried to get RP started here in The North many times, and it hasn't worked. What works in TEP has no bearing on us.
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Well we can always whine that nothing will work and therefore not even borther trying, that will fix the problem fast.


...or we can try some new things and see what happens. Hmm, do nothing; do something, which will get better results?
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While you were gone we continued to brainstorm, if you had bothered to read the other posts.
 
I've not really been gone, I've seen Syd trying to poke people into activity and the non-results which came from it. Clearly a new direction must be taken when facing this problem.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Hey you can roll your eyes all you want Syd but that doesn't change the fact that every day TNP is becoming more and more like TSP, which has a very small core of players that has been around for ever, a horribly inactiver government, and never accepts anything new into their system *ever*.

I, for one, don't want to see us become the next South Pacific.
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Did you miss the part where I said; I can't magic up activity out of thin air? This a NationStates-wide trend which no one government is responsible for - the notion that a government or even individual can be held responsible for a gradual downturn in web traffic is ludicrous.

I'd also point out that I'm not a mind reader; you say the government is inactive (which I'd take great issue with, I'd see myself as one of the most active delegates in the game) and does nothing to combat inactivity - well, what do you want us to do? Very telling that your immediate plan seems to be "See if Sydia has psychic powers...nope, best rebel!"

Last point; I spend a bit of time on TEP's forums, and TEP and TNP aren't greatly different in their levels of activity. TNP has never been a region big on role-playing, even in the 'Golden Age' the RP forum was the most inactive area. There's nothing stopping anyone from starting up new role plays (not my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat), but instead we prefer to point the finger.
 
flemingovia:
100 posts a day for four months solid? That was not my perception at around that period.

I suppose you have your perception of what happened, I have mine. Ikariam brought a temporary boost to the Merit, but the consequences speak for themselves. within a couple of months the merit was dead.

With hindsight I feel we might have done better to have concentrated on NS1, reinvented a role for ourselves in that game, and focussed more tightly than we did.

But as I said, it is perhaps just a matter of perspective. I never got involved in the other games particularly, so inevitably my perspective is slewed.

I just think it is better to concentrate on doing what we do, well.
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I apologize Flem, you have your perceptions, I have the data available as forum admin.

During the period November - February, we actually reached tallies of posts that put us on a level with the Meritocracy of old. In fact our activity during those months was of a kind not seen since November 2006, when there were any number of controversies and about thirty more posters than were available to us in the later stint.

To give exact figures...

August 2007: 334 posts
September 2007: 160 posts
October 2007: 174 posts
November 2007: 44 posts
December 2007: 78 posts
January 2008: 111 posts
February 2008: 62 posts
March 2008: 542 posts <------ Discussion begins on designing the Pact.
April 2008: 2094 posts
May 2008: 1813 posts
June 2008: 2014 posts
July 2008: 1259 posts
August 2008: 645 posts <------ 'Old timers' fall into inactivity, bar a select few.
September 2008: 480 posts
October 2008: 451 posts
November 2008: 691 posts <------ Arrival of new members from Ikariam / NS.
December 2008: 3232 posts
January 2009: 3061 posts
February 2009: 2625 posts
March 2009: 1317 posts <------ Leadership team cut their activity.
April 2009: 463 posts

The phenomenon is actually even more stark when you see it in graphical format, as I can in the Admin post. My recruitment began heavily in November - barely three weeks later, neatly dovetailing with the arrival of some NSers likes RogueScholar who had never before been Senators, our activity skyrocketed. I see no reason why a combined effort of some of the remaining active regions in NS to essentially start a new endeavour whilst bringing some 'old hands' to their old endeavours wouldn't be even more effective - especially if people here, and people recruited from any of the new games, have the time to indulge in the games. Most of us at the Met are in our twenties and have jobs etc - that's not the case with a lot of our potential membership base. Or should I say, your potential membership base since what Tresville is talking about is a TNP (and partners?) effort.
 
Just while we're on the subject actually, so far as a feeder is concerned numbers like these are probably small. They are a lot more when you consider that the Meritocracy does not have spam games and about 90% of the conversations that went on were about the political matters of administration or about tactics that our alliance in Ikariam should adopt / policies members should follow. This is the barebones activity that can be reached basically because I pulled my thumb out and recruited a couple of times per week - imagine what a concerted effort involving some of the figures here could do.

Anyway, that's all I really had to say. If you need me, I can be reached in-game at the usual address.
 
This discussion I believe has been fruitful. I am going to poll the RA via pm to see if a proposal for a forum move, Changes to the government and other ideas mentioned here have a chance of passing. I have never been one to produce proposals that will fail and waste the time of the RA and active members.

Off the top of my head...

A proposal for a change in government will suspend all government roles other than Delegate, VD and the SC. The RA will still be the governing body. The bill of rights which protects the rights of nations will remain in effect and all other documents would be null and void.

A proposal for a forum move will simply give us permission to Contract a team to head that project. Their job would be to bring fourth the best options for Hosting, boards and added features that will be voted on. Skins, colors banners, info boxes etc will all be presented here and voted on. Once the project is completed the government discussions here should be done. At that time the governing body (RA) will choose the admins for the new forum and any admins that worked on the project would be removed except for the root which would be whoever we chose to take care of the hosting. If Winnipeg or anyone else does this I and anyone else that wants to contribute will pay for the costs.

A proposal for expansion into other game realms will contract members to present games that we may be interested in playing as a community. Their job would be to organize these endeavors and bring it to a vote.

In the meantime, the job of our admins (or Gross really) should be to simply give MOD powers to anyone who wants to take on the job of improving our entertainment section here. RL discussions, Role Play endeavors should be started to keep those not heavily into working on any of the mentioned projects entertained.

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Because I have been the one to push for a forum move and change of government I will not run for Delegate and will not request to be the root admin. Those will be our collective choices when the time comes. This should ensure to everyone that this is not my attempt to grab power here, but simply my desire to improve on what we have already built here and secure the future of this community.

These projects should satisfy the discontent masses and show that if you want to be involved...no one here is hindering you. Everyone has the option to be involved in this community and its endeavors.

Attacks on Sydia our elected Delegate, will clearly show us who is here simply for their benefit. We are now the largest Feeder of the 5 Pacific's. Our RMB remains active and spammers are not polluting the RMB. He and everyone else who has kept the RMB active deserve our thanks, praise and most of all...our support.
 
Yes, and while I'm sure Sydia would do this without needing me to suggest it, it'd be a good idea to advertise any big conventions we have on the RMB and WFE so as to possibly attract people.

Depending on how long this takes, I might be done with finals and be able to help with a TG campaign as well.
 
I intend to publicize all of this one's it up. I am sure Sydia will alert the region via the WFE when the time comes.


On another note....

I am really pissed off that some nation is TGing people and using my name in a conspiracy theory. I know have to run around and nip that in the bud and secure aid to thwart any supposed soon to come attempt to overtake Syd.

Please give me another day to send out the PM's and TG's i mentioned above as I have to now also stop things I wanted to do in RL today to take care of this.
 
I would go so far as to say that forum activity has increased during the current administration; It wasn't so long that the forum really was dead.

I'm still not sold on a forum move, rather I think our number one goal should be rejuvenation of our current forum. Tresville brings up a good point; is our government too bloated? Is the forum too confusing? Is the layout too uninspired? If we can get consensus on these issues we can move forward in this forum or any other.

Going on to other games frankly reeks of desperation to me, but desperate times call for desperate measures, eh? The figures up there speak for themselves. I don't play any other browser game, but if anyone does and fancies doing Max's job for him I'm all for it.

Furthermore, if you have a suggestion, if you want the region to change, tell me! I can't mind-read, yet.
 
Syd ask Flem to give u the forum stats before u go so far as to say that.

I think u will find that in August when I started to campaign for the delegacy we received a boost of activity here that continued until the week of thanksgiving when i went on vacation. It should show that it jumped again for elections, then slowed down again when Flem became the "elected" delegate.

U already know that I kept the in game activity going until u became delegate and u continued that up to present day. But I did not attempt to get this forum active as I was not the elected delegate and keeping the gov here active was not my duty. I also have not posted any criticism directed towards u specifically in regards to the government activity. Nor have I done so onsite in the RMB.
 
I can only repeat what I've said before; as a site wide phenomenon, blaming one government for downturns in activity is folly. The capability of any government to combat it also remains to be seen.
 
Pretty much. Which is why I did not do what Flem did in that thread that u linked in your post. Nor did I do any mudslinging during the election campaigning in December. I even stayed in the race like a dick even though I didn't want another term so that Flem and yourslef could take the reigns and gain influence which would secure the region further.

I am not blaming u brother. I consistently point out to people that u have done a steller job keeping the region consistently active in game.

Excuse the profanity...I am rather pissed off at the moment.
 
Tresville:
Pretty much. Which is why I did not do what Flem did in that thread that u linked in your post. Nor did I do any mudslinging during the election campaigning in December. I even stayed in the race like a dick even though I didn't want another term so that Flem and yourslef could take the reigns and gain influence which would secure the region further.

I am not blaming u brother. I consistently point out to people that u have done a steller job keeping the region consistently active in game.

Excuse the profanity...I am rather pissed off at the moment.
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I appreciate that Cisco, I was just pointing out that TNP is at the moment withstanding the storm so to speak; the place isn't dead yet as is clearly evident in this thread. Inactivity poses the greatest threat to our region...more insidious than any plot, more damaging than any tyrant. Even if it turns out we are merely struggling against the tide (which hopefully isn't the case) we'll go out with a bang, not a whimper. In the words of the philosopher Young, it's better to burn out than fade away.
 
As an RPer, if you guys need help in that department, I might be able to offer some of my services... soon as these finals are all over and done with.
 
Ok people. I can now continue with my endeavors here.

Check List:
Poll via Pm the RA
Call in more members to comment on this topic
Contact gross to discuss Proposals

Will get this done by tomorrow night.
 
Todd McCloud:
As an RPer, if you guys need help in that department, I might be able to offer some of my services... soon as these finals are all over and done with.
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Thanks bro. I was going to ask anyway. At the moment what you could do is get us a list of the "active" RP regions u know. This will help when we get that project going.
 
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