Wee-Tiddler

It only takes one Naturalite, turning to the dark side, to topple a region:

Wee Tiddle:
Being honest with you, as you have been with me, I received an invite to join the Blue Moon Raiders to wreak havoc on TNP and enjoy the excitement they have to offer. Purely because of your intervention I am going to tell them to ‘go away’ but the tough unfriendly approach being used leaves disgruntled members, like me, open to recruitment in to the ranks of the ‘baddies’.
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Thanks for replying here and in NS Byakhee.

IMHO, Sydia should first deal with the SC which is under his jurisdiction and also has a say in the endocap.

I will post a pm that Gross sent me in regards to the SC. That should get things going as well RB.
 
The Blue Moon raiders are a pathetic group with less than 4 active members.

However, I will keep an eye on them, if only due to the fact I have nothing better to do.
 
Doesn't really matter what specific raider group approaches them. And thanks, Tres. Although even if Sydia does decide to concentrate more thoroughly on the SC, I personally would probably move to have the proposal presented to the RA.
 
Rhindon Blade:
Doesn't really matter what specific raider group approaches them. And thanks, Tres. Although even if Sydia does decide to concentrate more thoroughly on the SC, I personally would probably move to have the proposal presented to the RA.
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Both should be done is what I was trying to get at.
 
Tresville:
Rhindon Blade:
Doesn't really matter what specific raider group approaches them. And thanks, Tres. Although even if Sydia does decide to concentrate more thoroughly on the SC, I personally would probably move to have the proposal presented to the RA.
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Both should be done is what I was trying to get at.
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I have attended to the SC as much as is permissible by current law.
 
Please explain how you believe the matter settled. The gist of it is your inability to communicate in a reasonable manner with people and judging by your latest comment on the RMB where you advise me to shush I don't see any great improvement.
 
Oh, that was the problem!1 My bad....I thought the problem was the miscommunication between Tiddler and myself. Thats the only thing that was resolved here. As for my attitude I am sorry but the adjustment button that Flemingovia installed is broken. So you will just have to deal with it.

In regards to the RMB post....get a sense of humor man...or at least some sarcasm.

I blame GBM...after she ceased we ran out of rum for some time and now VP is sober.
 
Try reading the thread again Tres, the prob was, and remains, your attitude. As for me dealing with it, I am by simply pointing out your behaviour. If you find that hard to cope with then maybe it's because you realise I'm correct.

If your only method of responding to a genuine issue is with sarcasm then you are a sorry excude for a delegate.
 
To be honest both sides need some attitude adjustment here.
Tres; you need to stop with the "lol silly n00bs" attitude.
VP and WTOTW, not everyone in the government is conspiring against you.
 
Speaking purely personally I do not think anyone is conspiring against me.

Some people have been very constructive and some less so.

I floated an idea on the forum, as we are urged to get involved, and that is about that really.

Tiddler
 
Your comments about the RA 'oligarchy' suggested otherwise, which is why I got that impression.

Keep chucking out ideas! Once you get to know the place you'll know which will stick are which...won't.
 
"Keep chucking out ideas! " Oh I think you can be confident I will do that.

Of course you and the other Oligarchs will probably tell me where to stick 'em ;-)

but how dull a forum would it be if everyone agreed?

Tiddler
 
WeeTiddler:
"Keep chucking out ideas! " Oh I think you can be confident I will do that.

Of course you and the other Oligarchs will probably tell me where to stick 'em ;-)

but how dull a forum would it be if everyone agreed?

Tiddler
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But keep comparing us to the Nazis. Please, I'm sure where you're from people appreciate that.
 
Mr Sniffles- Do you actually know what an Oligarch is?
Do you know what a Nazi is?
They are *not* the same thing
Please calm down there is no need to get upset- I am not calling you a Nazi or Stalinist etc.

In a debate people will sometimes use extreme parodies or examples to try to emphasis a point. That was all it was meant to be, please do not get agitated about it.

If I really thought you were fascists I would not be on this forum or game.

It is my own fault. When I was at University I actively debated an awful lot and I merely used the same robust style as I often saw used by myself and others. I forget that this is more of a friendly discussion forum then a debating club. For that I am sorry.

## Apologies to anyone else offended and hurt by my less than gentle style of arguing or stressing a point. ##

I would not mind be banned for my views but would be ashamed to be thrown out for bad manners.

Tiddler
 
I'm all for lively debate, I just get irritated by bad manners and being told to hush. If there is one thing guaranteed to get me going it's someone trying to stiffle free speech either through gag or mockery.

I'm entitled to voice my opinion just as anyone is entitled to agree, disagree or ignore it and that is something I believe very passionately.

Some things are worth ranting about but I'd much rather discuss it in moderate tones.
 
picard-facepalm.jpg


Can we all please stop violating Godwin's Law?
 
WeeTiddler:
"Keep chucking out ideas! " Oh I think you can be confident I will do that.

Of course you and the other Oligarchs will probably tell me where to stick 'em ;-)

but how dull a forum would it be if everyone agreed?

Tiddler
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Somehow I don't think insulting me and every other elected government official is your best play, Tiddles. I stand by my original statement; you need to calm down a bit, take off the tin foil hat and bizarre notion that we all sit around stroking our beards wondering how we can gain more power.

I answered each of your points methodically and, I hoped, in a polite and useful manner. To which your only answer was "You're still an oligarch, kthxbai". The region has had a long and 'colourful' history, full of dictators, tyrants, despots, law after law, argument after argument, after which through much trial and error (which continues today) we've formed a system that's one of the most stable and democratic feeders, if not regions, in the game. It's not perfect. But within the confines of NS it works.

"Oligarchy (Greek ?????????, Oligarkhía) is a form of government where political power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society distinguished by royalty, wealth, family, military powers or occult spiritual hegemony. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for "few" (?????? olígos) and "rule" (???? arkh?)."

From Prof. Wiki. Pedia.

Our RA is small, admittedly. That's another issue. What it certainly isn't is an elite body with strictly defined features. To join the RA all you need to do is have a nation in the region and post and oath. That's it. After which you can vote, propose legislation and run for office. That's about as far removed from an oligarchy as you can get.
 
As in both all you have to do is pledge loyalty to the body you are joining whether it be the National Socialist Party or the RA.
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People join the Regional Assembly because they want to contribute to the region in a free democratic way. No one member has more than one vote and each member of the RA can introduce any proposal they want. We have all sorts of members, even those actively seeking to destroy the government; Cathyy and Insane Power were noted members. We have members who used to be our oppressors, we have members who are active politicians from all over the NS world. The RA admits any resident of the North Pacific and as registered voters may elect other officials, they do their jobs for the good of the region.

I don't know which university you went to but bringing up the Nazis in comparison in any other context than mass genocide or explicit racism is considered wrong, reflective of poor reasoning and debating skills. You go after the idea not by equating anyone who disagrees with the Nazi party.

At the very least, your allegation is wrong given the twelve million the Nazis killed could not simply "pledge loyalty" and join.
 
Oath taking != oligarchy, either.

Every legislature in the world requires its members to take an oath not to work against their country or laws. Since the RA is our legislature, why should we be any different?

It's also a useful legal tool. Members who break the law (and are convicted of it, of course) are barred from voting on the basis that they have broken their oath. Since most liberal democracies bar convicted felons from voting I'm not seeing the problem here either.
 
Allow me to throw my two cents in, if you will. I'm a fairly new member to TNP (I've only been here a few months). Almost immediately I applied to the RA and was accepted. Before I had even been an RA member for a month, I was accepted into the cabinet as the attorney general. And as far as NS is concerned, I'm a nobody. About a year ago my buddy and I closed down our podunk backwater region and I left the game for a while. I came back with a new name (Chowda Head) and decided to stay in TNP.

The government system here is about the best you can have. I didn't get any special treatment. I proved myself to get my position. Are there people who have been around for a while? Sure. Flem, GBM, Tresville, Eluvatar, and many others have been in TNP for a very long time. Are they influential? Of course they're influential. If you have experience in any field, then you have a certain amount of influence over that area. Are they the kind of people who stomp out ideas because the "peasants" thought of them? Hell no. That's the beauty of TNP. You can present ideas and such and so long as you're doing it in a civil manner, you have no worries. In the RA when we have our discussions we all keep it civil weather or not we like the proposal at hand.

So, you have ideas. Great! Join the RA and present them there. Then there will be good, healthy debate and if it's felt that your idea is a good one, it will be refined into a piece of legislation that will ultimately get voted upon. If we like it, we'll support it. If not, then you have every right to refine it yourself and try again.
 
This is truly amusing.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The fact that the Delegate took the time to inform the violator of the law at all is better than can be said in many places. I know.

The fact that members of the government are attempting to chastise the Delegate for being "too tough" in his language when the messages seem very reasonable to me is also amazing.

The simple thing about TNP is that if you wish to change the oligarchy, and I am not going to argue that it doesn't exist here because it does, then you simply have the choice to join them, because this particular form of oligarchy is very open to new members, and work from within towards the change you seek.

Unless of course you get sufficient Influence to eject the other high ranking regional members after securing the Delegacy. Then you can set up your own oligarchy. Either way the end result is the same. Some people rule and some people follow and some people just exist without caring to give their input at all.

If you wish to discuss the finer points of despotism in a Feeder then feel free to ask me specific questions. You will not find a better example. If you wish to call someone names you can do that in this direction as well. Nothing that you state will be new and I am more willing to absorb it, through practice, than most.

Continuing to verbally attack the members of this community without seeking to actually be part of the active governing body will not win you any friends or support. And it may get you my full attention.
 
Gracius Maximus:
The simple thing about TNP is that if you wish to change the oligarchy, and I am not going to argue that it doesn't exist here because it does, then you simply have the choice to join them, because this particular form of oligarchy is very open to new members, and work from within towards the change you seek.
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In that there's an established clique in pretty much every forum anywhere on the internet. Seriously, try and find out one without some sort of 'ruling clique'. Might not be kosher to point it out, but it's there. Can't change human nature.

The fact that the game revolves around governments mean that the term oligarchy lends itself well to this phenomenon.
 
At last we finally agree that it is an oligarchy. The merits and flaws of such a system could keep us talking for an age in themselves, but I do see it as a positive that we have acknowledgement of the fact at last. I can work with that.
 
Vaticania Prime:
At last we finally agree that it is an oligarchy. The merits and flaws of such a system could keep us talking for an age in themselves, but I do see it as a positive that we have acknowledgement of the fact at last. I can work with that.
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I prefer republic.
 
Ator People:
Vaticania Prime:
At last we finally agree that it is an oligarchy. The merits and flaws of such a system could keep us talking for an age in themselves, but I do see it as a positive that we have acknowledgement of the fact at last. I can work with that.
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I prefer republic.
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A republic means a government does not recognize a Monarch.

And I don't believe that we are an oligarchy. Is America an oligarchy just because 60% of the population voted? Break it down then the country is currently being run by merely 35% of the population, the only clear majority is the 40% that didn't vote. It's obvious that it's the 40% who choose not to vote simply don't care. GM's point is that decisions are made by those that show up or else not only are we an oligarchy but so is the USA, Canada, the UK, and countless other so called democracies.
 
Haor Chall:
I was always partial to wubocracy myself.
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*Hugs HC* :tb2:

Gracius Maximus:
The fact that members of the government are attempting to chastise the Delegate for being "too tough" in his language when the messages seem very reasonable to me is also amazing.
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What amazes me is that some members of this government find it hard to comprehend that by establishing a set system for issuing warnings, we as a region will benefit.

Go ahead...tough-talk the troublemakers if thats how you roll. Thats not what I'm concerned about.
 
Rhindon Blade:
Haor Chall:
I was always partial to wubocracy myself.
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*Hugs HC* :tb2:

Gracius Maximus:
The fact that members of the government are attempting to chastise the Delegate for being "too tough" in his language when the messages seem very reasonable to me is also amazing.
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What amazes me is that some members of this government find it hard to comprehend that by establishing a set system for issuing warnings, we as a region will benefit.

Go ahead...tough-talk the troublemakers if thats how you roll. Thats not what I'm concerned about.
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I wouldn't "tough talk" them at all. It is the responsibility of every player signing into the game to know the basic mechanics and rules. There are only a handful of reasons for swapping for WA endorsements, especially when paired with telegrams expressing discontent for the "status quo".

You can either be seeking 2 so that you can submit resolutions to the World Assembly. Or you could be trying to make friends and influence people, which is the common excuse for the subversive.

Or you can just be attempting to take the Delegacy.

It isn't the responsibility of the Delegate to worry about your feelings if you get caught.

In Game NS FAQ:
My region's WA Delegate is an evil dictator who ejects nations for no reason! Make him stop!

Delegates are elected: if you don't like yours, it's up to you to get him/her unelected. While in power, Delegates can use or abuse their powers as they see fit.
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I don't see:

The Delegate is a big meany that sent me a message asking me to stop swapping towards his endorsement number.  What do I do?

Report him to the feelings fairies and they will tell him to play nice.
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No, no tough talk would come from me at all. I would have them on their ass in the RR sending me hate TGs and declaring to the world that I am a monster and I would sleep just fine in that knowledge.
 
Rhindon Blade:
What amazes me is that some members of this government find it hard to comprehend that by establishing a set system for issuing warnings, we as a region will benefit.

Go ahead...tough-talk the troublemakers if thats how you roll. Thats not what I'm concerned about.
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A set policy would do nothing but strangle our security apparatus. No threat or situation is ever the same and each requires the flexibility and creativity of those in the room.

It's been the custom and convention for the Delegate to warn and engage potential threats since GBM. We do it as a courtesy and as a testament to the openness of our region. The office of the Delegate may vary in responsibilities from region to region but the basic power is the same throughout the game, to preserve the sovereignty of the region. There is no requirement nor should there be to warn, as not every endotarter has the same intention nor background.

Under any regional law, wantonly collecting endorsements to challenge a sitting Delegate is illegal for obvious reasons. Yet all the other feeders but us have strict endocaps with the proud tradition of choosing to engage tarters. No other feeder but us allows tarting to the degree that we do, to gain the amount of influence that we allow. No other feeder allows for such open suffrage either. They can disagree with our actions, they can disagree with our laws and policies, and they can even disagree with our values; all they have to do to change it, is to commit to changing it in a free and fair way.

As for the "tough words," Rhin I know your intentions are good but you've only heard the tail end of the story. VP and Tee have been flagrantly challenging us for some time now, all during a time of war. I've heard nothing but offers of peace, invitations, and respectful negotiation on our end. Finally they come, and of course equate us with the Nazis. Tres has dealt with them the longest and I dare anyone to show the patience he's had, considering their time now on our forum has amounted to a small fraction of their experience. If anything they've done nothing but take advantage of our hospitality.
 
I firmly believe that dealing with endo-tarts should be at the Delegate's discretion. While I like warnings, they are not always practical. Codifying a warning process is going to give a savvy tart more loopholes than he deserves.

Does anyone remember Activini? A virulent tart, who I bent over backwards to placate, Activini filed impeachment charges against me over a technicality in the Security Council's wording of his ban order. Complete :bs:
 
Mr Sniff if you call asking questions of an establishment "flagrantly challenging" then I'm guilty as charged. But then again isn't it reasonable to challenge something if you either disagree or seek understanding? Otherwise we are condemned to stagnate.

And when have I likened anyone to the nazis? I'd love you to substantiate that claim so that if I've offended then I can apologise unreservedly. Alternately, if you have made an inaccurate statement regarding me then maybe you would like to offer an apology?
 
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