Statement

Some of you may have seen a certain log, which includes statements about me by some Taijituans that "We own TNP" and nonsense such as that.

Firstly, I had no part in this log, and was as surprised at its existence as all of you were when NewKervoskia posted it. My first response was to laugh at a joke which couldn't possibly be true. Then I became a touch disturbed.

I state categorically that I had no part in this, and that I as Delegate am a TNPer for TNP, nothing else. I am offended by these comments, and am yet exploring, with a Government investigation, whether they were actually said by the persons indicated. It has been insinuated to me that they were, which saddens me.

For some facts: Govindia has pointed out the quite correct point that the username in the log is different from the username he currently uses. While this does not conclusively prove he was not involved, it's a pretty good indication. Additionally, it's a valid point that these logs are missing timestamps, making it difficult to check if the persons in question were actually all online at that time, or what have you. Everything about this is quite nebulous and unclear. Hopefully the full truth will reveal itself in time.

Having read the log, honestly I wouldn't be surprised.

Govind's provided evidence to me which is sufficient, in my eyes, to indicate that he has a pretty good chance of being proven innocent.

Didnt take long for the smell of corruption to appear again

Its TNP, what did you expect?

Elu sounds defensive.

I would like to offer my character reference to Eluvatar, at no point has he ever offered to use his TNP position to help create a Taijitu "empire".

No offense TGR, but according to that log, you or someone impersonating you was an active participant in that conversation.

In fact, I do believe the "TGR" in the log was the one that stated that Taijitu "owned" the North Pacific.

While I am not convinced that all the people taking part in that conversation are who they said they were, this is an important and unanswered question.

I do believe some answers are in order.

Do you really believe that there is a Taijitu NS order? Or that there really is some plan to take over Nationstates using military force? Surely you are aware a force of that size doesn't exist. Though if you have a force of that size, let me know

I also add that the phrases said by TGR on them regarding the North Pacific Delegacy, which I assume I can post without breaking the ToS rules, since it is my name on them, amount to "<@TGR> Eluvatar is a very talented Taiji".

I won't deny that Eluvatar is very talented. He certainly is. But to say he would betray the trust you have placed in him would be crazy.

Hmmm. Strongly worded and oft repeated denials? Statement of patriotism? Launching government investigation? I've seen enough RL political scandals to know that is as conclusive a proof that something did happen as anyone would need.

If you could try to work...

"If it falls to me, to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country, then with a simple sword of truth, and the trusty shield of traditional TNP fair play, then so be it."

Click to expand...

...in somewhere I'd be most grateful.

I really have not seen any real proof that this conversation did not occur...in fact Maha's reaction seems to indicate otherwise.

I'm not saying it happened...but I'm not convinced it didn't.

I don't really know Govinda, but I know his reputation, and I can't see the Taijitu leadership involving him in anything like this. This doesn't smell right.

Yes, but if someone were impersonating all those people, they sure got their characterizations of them right. I know Meri well enough to know that sounds just like her.

In all fairness WV, aren’t you a Taiji yourself?

Blue Wolf II:

In all fairness WV, aren’t you a Taiji yourself?

Click to expand...

True, but I stand by my opinion. Several things about this don't smell right to me.

Yes, like why would Pacifica make this up?

Pacifica? Who involved in this affair represents Pacifica?

New Kervoskia of the Trans-Pacific Times.

It doesn't matter if the "logs" are accurate and are being spread around in order to stir the pot, sort of to speak, or if they are a fabrication for the same reason, it reflects more on those who are directly responsible for it being distributed publicly in the first place than anything else.

That sounds like more of a distraction from the issue at hand, which is the content of the logs themselves.

New Kervoskia isn't a part of the Pacific any more, and hasn't for some time.

Get with the picture, Blue

As such, a development like this, if properly substantiated, would result in a violation of the Gatesville withdrawal treaty that removed L&C.

That would be a very, very messy situation at best and a total catastrophuque at best.

Romanoffia:

As such, a development like this, if properly substantiated, would result in a violation of the Gatesville withdrawal treaty that removed L&C.

That would be a very, very messy situation at best and a total catastrophuque at best.

Click to expand...

how?

A conflict of interests concerning the treaty particulars. Pay attention. ;D

Romanoffia:

A conflict of interests concerning the treaty particulars. Pay attention. ;D

Click to expand...

we mere mortals look to you for guidance, Roman

Romanoffia:

A conflict of interests concerning the treaty particulars. Pay attention. ;D

Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Luckily the doctor gave me an ointment to put on my treaty particulars and said to come back in two weeks if the conflict of interest hadn't cleared up.

Here we go again

Namyeknom:

Romanoffia:

A conflict of interests concerning the treaty particulars. Pay attention. ;D

Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Luckily the doctor gave me an ointment to put on my treaty particulars and said to come back in two weeks if the conflict of interest hadn't cleared up.

Click to expand...

Personally, I'd try some penicillin were I you. But antibiotics don't get rid of Gatesvillians who feel screwed.

Hey, is it legal to have dual citizenship with Gatesville and TNP? I see that a lot of Taij people already have dual citizenship with TNP. Fair is fair!

Unless Gatesville says no, I don't see why you can't be a citizen there and here as well?

Course this is just my personal opinion

Since "Citizenship" is a new concept in TNP, I don't think there is anything preventing anyone from having Dual- or even Multi- Citizenship.

Govindia:

Unless Gatesville says no, I don't see why you can't be a citizen there and here as well?

Course this is just my personal opinion

Click to expand...

I was just kidding. The reference (not related to Gatesville as anything more than a randomly chosen reason for the joke) wasn't obvious enough. I'll have to reformulate the joke so that it becomes more obvious (and hopefully give a few people a really good laugh in the process. )

As an outsider I would like to ask a question to the new esteemed delegate Eluvatar of The North Pacific. You have deep roots with Taijitu and Gatesville is on hostile terms with that region how will this effect our current peaceful relationship? You can claim duality but old Gates is not a fool what actions will you take to re-assure me that you are committed to this established peace?

I don't see what positive actions I can make to show I am supporting a peace, beyond simply abiding by it, beyond amiably congratulating Darkesia on attaining the Delegacy some weeks ago, beyond not fighting.

Additionally, while I as Delegate of the North Pacific abide by the peace between Gatesville and the North Pacific, I do not see what business it is of yours what else I do.

Well I consider it my business on what else you do in a region hostile to Gatesville.

It is well known that I, and no one else, own Eluvatar. Taijitu can just back right off.

Hm, sorry about the way I put that, it was imprecise and a tad brusque.

What I should say is the following:

1. As Delegate of the North Pacific I am committed to peace between the North Pacific and Gatesville as agreed to by my predecessor. While we've had our differences, I feel we can and should get along. As long as we are clear that we respect each other's sovereignty and do not interfere in each other's affairs, we're golden and I'm happy to keep it that way.

2. As a Taijituan I am amused and bemused by the Gatesville declaration of war on Taijitu, but not what you'd call seriously angry. Besides, it's not like much action is likely as Taijitu and Gatesville are the equivalent of two impregnable fortresses with an impassable swamp between them-- actual fighting is unlikely.

3. The two relationships between me and Gatesville are just that: two. Gatesville's war with Taijitu does not make me want to bring TNP into a fight with Gatesville. That would be pointless, silly, and not at all in the North's interests, which is what I serve here.

4. If you want to address what I do in Taijitu, I think it would make more sense to bring it up in Taijitu's forum rather than here.

(4) is the most important point here. If you think I'm wrong about it, I'd love to hear why, I love a good discussion. Anywho, best of wishes.

Thank you for your comments Eluvatar I just wanted to make sure that your duality did not carry over into the great region of The North Pacific. As far as visiting the Taijitu board I can’t take the foul mouthed trash over there.

The brats these days, need a good hiding, the whole lot of them.

You got that right Heft they have no respect for their elders.

HEFT! HEFT!


Welcome back!

I hope you are here to stay!


Good points all around in this discussion.


Let me bring up the duality issue again as well as an earlier, how should I put it......hypothetical situation. Considering that the Delegate is also a Taij citizen as well as a TNP citizen; and considering it is possible that a TNP citizen could very well have dual citizenship with a region, for the sake of this argument, Gatesville?

Now, TNP and Taij do not have a hostile relationship nor do TNP and Gatesville for that matter. However, Gatesville and Taij are obviously not on friendly speaking terms, as it were. Now assuming that people holding multiple, citizenships lawfully recognized or not, and that such people are assumed to be primarily loyal to TNP on this forum and possibly primarily loyal on the other two forums, how long would it be before the 'unrelated' conflict spread over to this forum?

I've watched for a number of years this region being used as a 'trophy' region and have watched this region suffer under a succession of rogue delegates who generally have ties to other regions.

I've also noted before, here and elsewhere, in public and private, that the easiest way for a rogue delegate to seize control of a region and do so without anyone noticing was for such a rogue to seize control via 'constitutional' means but *not* moving the forum. Hence, a surreptitious means for one region to take over another region is to simply control the official forum and letting such a forum remain at it's original location. If Lewis and Clark had not changed this forum to a new location would there have been such a civil war over control of the region?

Ironically, it seems that controlling forums and what forum is noted in the WFE header has become more important that the region itself and who actually controls the region. And this is is why regional ties between government officials and citizens outside of TNP is an extremely important issue that looks by all appearances to be the 800 lb gorilla in the room that no one seems to notice. That was the whole gist of my jolly quip about 'what if I went out an obtained dual citizenship with Gatesville' post.

Were something like that to happen where the Citizens of TNP were to split themselves into two opposing camps, one related to Taij and the other related to Gatesville, there would be some interesting permutations, eh?

The best result would be that TNP would become a political battleground as opposed to a real battleground and a rather interesting form of detent. I don't want to even contemplate the worst result.

Either way, it is my personal goal, for the benefit of the security of TNP, to assure that the arrangement we have with Gatesville not be transgressed and that future arrangements do not affect or upset the precedent arrangement officially in place. Everyone is free to take the italics in any context he or she likes.