Declassified discussion thread for RA vote

This thread is for the discussion of the document that the constitutional Delegate, Great Bights Mum has submitted to the RA for approval.
The Council of Lower Officials has classified this matter as emergency legislation, therefore, the vote will last for three days. Voting will commence at 1800 GMT 22 April 2008 and end at 1759 GMT 25 April 2008. RA members will cast tehir vote exclusively by personal message to the Speaker. All RA members in good standing will receive a personal message containing thedocument, and the statement from Great Bight Mum concerning the document.
 
Those who have been banned from either IRC channel, be it #thenorthpacific, or #tnp, what shall happen with them?

:(

Secondly, will Gatesville recognise GBM as the legitimate delegate?

Thirdly, will the resume foreign relations with us once again? If that is the case I would not mind serving as ambassador to TNP and vice versa.

Rather short treaty otherwise, but it covers the other points pretty well :) :ADN:
 
I do believe that this treaty means Gatesville recognizes this forum's government, and therefore Great Bights Mum. However as irc is outside of government this treaty does not refer to it.

Personally, since Flemingovia (the one who's rights are being curtailed by this agreement) has from what I can tell personally agreed to this, I support this agreement.
 
I not only am OK with the clause mentioning me - I suggested it and wrote it. It gives Gates an exit with honour. A small price to pay.

AFAIK nobody has been banned from #tnp or #thenorthpacific as a result of this conflict.
 
It's an imperfect peace, perfect being we mopped the floor with them. But peace should be achieved however it's done.

Also without gatesville, L&C's out. Everyone endo tart now.
 
I approve of this treaty and support it!

I have spoken at length on this matter with Gates and agree that both regions and this government have sufficient common goals such that this treaty will beneficial to all of us.

This treaty, being mutually beneficial and promoting the common goals between us (the legitimate government of TNP and Gatesville) and the fact that it produces an arrangement whereby out common goals are promoted, conflict between both regions eliminated and both supporting each other in common goals will produce a era of prosperity for both concerns.

I give my full support to this treaty and the goals of this treaty.


R
 
I believe that the treaty's text goes too far in calling for future friendly relations, for which our goals are too diametrically opposed. But it does so informally.

I consider it as nothing more or less than an indefinite ceasefire agreement. Even so, I would not support it if the latest increase in the endogap had not indicated a setback that heralds an extended war. I believe we do need to win that war at all costs, but I do not believe we need to win it against Gatesville. If we can get Gatesville to withdraw, this would be a great plus.
 
I not only am OK with the clause mentioning me - I suggested it and wrote it. It gives Gates an exit with honour. A small price to pay.

AFAIK nobody has been banned from #tnp or #thenorthpacific as a result of this conflict.
Well......<_<
 
As a strategic point on this matter -

Gatesville moved in a heap more troops a couple of weeks ago because support for L&C is dwindling, and quite rapidly.

Now, let me put on my Otto von Bismarck hat for a second and explain the practicality of this treaty.

1.) L&C will fall no matter what, it's just a matter of time.

2.) When he does, Gatesville will have egg all over its face, however,

3.) It will make a permanent enemy of Gatesville whereby we will be on constant conflict with Gatesville;

4.) At the present rate, when L&C falls he will likely be supplanted by someone who is not friendly to us, like TwoSlits or the like.

5.) By agreeing to a treaty that is tantamount to a non-aggression/non interference pact with Gatesville, we can eliminate L&C instantly (Gatesville has a second flag/group that they control that isn't labeled with big flashing neon Gatesville flags in case no one noticed) and GBM will instantly at update become the Delegate.

6.) This also means that if we get a presence/treaty with as many regions as we can, Gatesville won't give us any grief (it becomes a race to ally with as many regions as we can get to first).

7.) All Gates wants is to have a free hand at manipulating WA resolutions - let him have at it. In all practicality, WA resolutions don't mean anything to us and it's no skin off our collective arse.

In all realms in this issue, we come out on top, we gain a de facto ally, or at least a neutrality relationship with Gatesville and in the long run, Gatesville will eventually drive more nations into our sphere of influence my regional migration - if we play it right.

If we engage in a little Realpolitik ourselves we will always come out on top or with the better end of the bargain.

Under the present conditions we need to be primarily concerned with getting our region back as quickly as possible. Gates is looking for an 'honorable' way of withdrawing from the region without taking a PR hit in the process. I say let's oblige him in that goal. We can give him what he wants in that department and he can give us what we want and its no skin of anyone's arse at all.

And this is the crux of our 'mutual' objectives and goals. A prolonged conflict is neither desirable nor productive and will only lead to more conflict.

If we pass this treaty, in a couple of months time no one will care let alone remember as long as we are not the ones who abrogate the treaty. If Gatesville ever violates the treaty (which I doubt) we still have our region back anyway. If Gatesville abides by this proposed treaty, we still have our region back. It's a win-win situation.

OTOH, if pride comes before the fall, we could be stuck with L&C or worse for a very, very long time. I prefer we all be practical about this and look at the big picture in relation to immediate returns. Think about it.

And frankly, I would think that future friendly relations with Gatesville would not be all that bad of an idea. Having Gatesville on our side in the event of another rogue delegate incident would be worth its weight in gold. Remember, Gatesville is a military organization that we can learn a lot from and we aren't required to go to war for them. But the likelyhood that Gatesville would support us in the event of another rogue episode is vastly increased with such a treaty.

And this is yet another set of reasons why I support this treaty.


R
 
As I was saying - we need to pass this treaty soon before someone else grabs the delegacy.
 
As I was saying - we need to pass this treaty soon before someone else grabs the delegacy.
That was actually the point I had originally made to GBM.

Even if we keep pushing down the regions highest endorsement levels, there are threats lingering around the 200 endorsement area.
 
I have consulted with GBM, and I am announcing that, while the vote will remain open for the full three days, an absolute majority of the RA has already voted in favor of approving the treaty. (22 of 39 so far.)
I will continue to receive votes by personal message until the announced end of the voting period, and the list of how members voted will be posted after the official voting period ends.
Given the concerns that prompted the treaty, as well as the other concerns mentioned in this thread, it seems to me that it's appropriate to announce that approval of the treaty has been achieved.
 
I have consulted with GBM, and I am announcing that, while the vote will remain open for the full three days, an absolute majority of the RA has already voted in favor of approving the treaty. (22 of 39 so far.)
I will continue to receive votes by personal message until the announced end of the voting period, and the list of how members voted will be posted after the official voting period ends.
Given the concerns that prompted the treaty, as well as the other concerns mentioned in this thread, it seems to me that it's appropriate to announce that approval of the treaty has been achieved.
:clap: :clap: :agree: :clap: :clap:
:w00t:

I Approve!
 
I am so pleased this agreement has been well received. Thanks to everyone for such a prompt response. We can pull together and put an end to this war.

I have received a TG from Chlorine Chloride. He sounded like he was on our side and just wanted to have a high endo count so he wouldn't be banned by L&C. I will have another word with him.
 
Let's not assume this is over. It will take Gates a while to withdraw, and even then WW may have other resources to call on, which may yet make a fight of it.

He may also have influence reserves, and try more banning to keep him in power.

However, my understanding is that WW is fed up and tired. I think he MAY fold, once Gatesville is gone.
 
I suppose it is utterly impossible that any of Gatesville's troops will desert and refuse to withdraw.

Because that would seriously suck...

Edit: I count so many remaining GV endorsements that L&C is seriously going to lose the delegacy once GV has withdrawn fully. This is very good. :)
 
The voting period has ended. The final tallly is 24 members voted for approval of the treaty of the 39 members of the RA. 15 did not respond to the summons.

As soon as the treaty is implemented, its text will be publicly posted, as well as the actual vote tally.
 
The voting period has ended. The final tallly is 24 members voted for approval of the treaty of the 39 members of the RA. 15 did not respond to the summons.

As soon as the treaty is implemented, its text will be publicly posted, as well as the actual vote tally.
Isn't it already being implemented?
 
I don't know. I can't see flem's signature or avatar. :P

On the other hand, GV has also not fully withdrawn yet.
 
I want to do it in a way that leaves any supporters of the other color in doubt until regional controls have been placed in GBM's hands.

At that point then we'll know that the treaty has been implemented. (As of the moment I was typing this the magic number was 3 (2 to tie, three to gain control.)
 
I have posted the treaty in the delegate's office. Everyone has seen the Gatesville guard departing, so secrecy is no longer an issue. I am confident we will win back the delegacy tonight.
 
L&C still has control of the regional controls, and has ejected and banned about 18 nations (GBM's endo count is down to 224 and L&C is at 239. So it's not quite under control yet.
 
L&C is at 238

GBM is at 225

L&C is about to go on a banning spree before the night is over, of that you can be sure.

Then again, he will have to essentially S-can himself in the process.

And don't forget the PR value of L&C getting left twisting in the wind on this one.
 
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