TAO for delegate

[Flemingovia]

on the RMB recently TAO announced that he was interested in becoming delegate here in TNP to bring the warring factions together.

While not commenting on his candidacy one way or the other, I for one am interested to hear what this experienced player feels he could offer the community here, what his vision for the region would be, and what government structure etc he would advocate.

Also, what would be the place of Gatesville and other outside bodies in his vision for the region.

So I have opened this thread for him, and would invite him to discuss it with us.

F>

 

[Blue Wolf II]

I like TAO.

 

[Honeysheep]

*grins* pick me!

 

[Knockavale]

I like HS. Lol

 

[Romanoffia (Guest)]

I like TAO.

That endorsement makes me wonder right now.

I suspect that unless L&C is overthrown, and soon, Gatesville, like the poor, will be with us forever.

I, personally, would prefer a TNP native as delegate instead of relying upon foreign delegated who come in to 'mediate' a situation.

 

[Southwest Asia]

He could offer more banjections!

Yay!


Also, pudding.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

That endorsement makes me wonder right now.

I endorse Stars of Sky once too...OMFG! If I endorsed her then...THEN SHE WAS A...! OMG! and if she endorsed this government and I endorsed her then...OH MAH GAWD!!!!!

RUN ROMANS, RUN! EVERYONE HERE IS SECRETLY A RAIDER!! E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E!!!


Except for you of course, you're the only sane one here Roman, everybody else are godless commie raiders.

 

[Outer Kharkistania]

TAO's cool.

I'd support him as delegate if he ejected and/or banned every single recruiter that came through the region for no reason.

 

[Poltsamaa]

I guess TAO bet hop to it and get elected!!

 

[TAO]

I, personally, would prefer a TNP native as delegate instead of relying upon foreign delegated who come in to 'mediate' a situation.

TAO has had a nation in TNP since March 2004. One doesn't get much more native than that.

TAO has come here at Flemingovia's invitation. Most of you know me. Many of you watched carefully to see what TAO would do as Delegate of TWP. Some may even have been surprised to see that TAO didn't usurp the region.

First and foremost, TAO is all about COMMUNITY. My years of works in all the feeders promoting a Community sense on the RMB is proof of that. And TNP has long been a region where TAO (under many names) has worked to bring such Community about ... with varying degrees of success. But Community is a two-fold creature in this Game. It has to happen ~out there~ on the RMB and ~in here~ in the Forum to be legitimate. Community is something that takes work and has to be nurtured.

IMO, this region has for too long stagnated under a smothering blanket of bureaucracy. That happens to regions when the players in them forget about Community ... forget that the other players are RL people ... forget that ALL of us here (and elsewhere in NS) are here because we are seeking something that we may not be able to find in RL ... a sense of real belonging to something.

Why do many of us keep coming back to this game or this forum day after day ... sometimes HOUR after HOUR? Not for the fun, I can assure you! We come ... TAO comes ... to find a Community.

Flem asked me about a government structure. I offer one below.

Flem asked my view on Gatesville. TAO is hurt that they all didn't come to my 1K Endo Event. But seriously ... IF TNP had a ~flourishing~ Community, Gates and L&C would never have thought an action (like the one taken) would be necessary. Their goal is to reinvigorate the game and ~hopefully~ create a Community enjoyed by many and not just a few who hold power.

I also want to say that I am not interested in game power for power's sake. I have it and have had it and, sure, it is "fun" but not all it's cracked up to be. More than anything, TAO is interested in developing a Community again in TNP. But that will never happen unless and until ALL OF YOU decide that a Community is what YOU want, too. And if you want it, you will work to make it happen. And once the Community is created, power will be seen not as something to lord over others but as something to be used to benefit all ... and then passed along to the next person with vision enough to use the power wisely.

So here you go. Say what you want ... you won't/can't hurt my feelings ... just so long as you say you want to work to create a real Community again. With TAO or without TAO is no big deal ... just MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Preamble:

We, the People and Nations of The North Pacific, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Creator of Nation States, and the Community of Friends who share themselves with us in affording us an opportunity to be relieved of the mundane features of Real Life now join together in forming a new Constitution of Civil Government, for ourselves and those who follow; and devoutly imploring the Delegate’s benevolence in so interesting a design, DO agree upon, ordain and establish, the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of The North Pacific.

Article I: Leadership

A. The Delegate
1. The UN nation of the Delegate must be a resident in The North Pacific.

2. The Delegate shall be the supreme onsite Executive power of the North Pacific and the Community Assembly may not limit the power of the Delegate.

3. The Delegate shall serve at his/her leisure and pleasure for a term of six months.  At the end of his third month, the Delegate should make a statement indicating his/her decision to continue as Delegate or to step down at the end of that term.

4. The Delegate may set and enforce an endorsement cap over the region at any time. Any imposed endorsement cap must not be set lower than 20% of the Delegate’s endorsements or 50 endorsements – whichever is greater.  Any pronouncement of an endorsement cap must be located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum and also posted on the RMB.

5. The Delegate shall only vote on UN Resolutions in accordance with the will of the majority of UN nations residing in the region and participating in the Community forum.

6. The Delegate shall name a Delegate’s Council -- consisting of Regional Guardians, a Councilor of Defense, a Councilor of Foreign Affairs, and a Councilor of Intelligence -- from nations within the region who are also Community forum members.

7. The Delegate shall select Regional Guardians to serve in the absence or incapacity of the Delegate. The Delegate may add or replace a Regional Guardian at any time.

8. The Delegate may not dismiss any official elected by the Community Assembly without a simple majority of support [aye/nay vote] from the Community Assembly. Any request for dismissal must be located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum.

9. The Delegate shall possess the right to veto any piece of legislation from the Community Assembly, excluding elections and impeachments. The veto can be overturned by a vote in the Community Assembly that receives a 3/4 majority of the voters.

10. The Delegate’s Council alone may approve treaties but the treaty approval can be overturned by a vote in the Community Assembly that receives a 3/4 majority of the voters indicating that the treaty is not in the best interests of the region.

11. The Delegate shall offer direction to the government through direct appeal to the Community Assembly.

12. The Delegate shall possess the power to pardon and exonerate anyone convicted of a crime by the Court of the North Pacific.

B. Delegate’s Council
1. The Regional Guardians
a. A Regional Guardian shall be selected by the Delegate from any of the UN nations resident in the North Pacific. The Delegate may replace a Regional Guardian at any time.
b. A Regional Guardian will be allowed to reach an endorsement level not to exceed 90% of the Delegate.
c. In the absence or incapacity of the Delegate, a Regional Guardian shall carry out the duties of the Delegate.
d. If the Delegate remains inactive for one week and has not notified the Delegate’s Council of said absence, a Regional Guardian may, upon approval of the Delegate’s Council, replace the Delegate by endorsement gathering. In such a case the Regional Guardian shall become the new Delegate.
e. A Delegate may select no fewer than four (4) and no more than seven (7) Regional Guardians.

2. Councilor of War
a. The Councilor of War shall be responsible for raising and maintaining an Army to defend the Region of the North Pacific against all threats, foreign and domestic.
i. Members of the Army must be UN members. Residency in The North Pacific is not required but is recommended. 
ii. The Councilor of War shall maintain a system of rank and advancement for the Army.
iii. Officer status within the Army will only be granted to members jointly approved by the Councilor of War and the Community Assembly.
b. The Councilor of War shall advise the Delegate and the Delegate’s Council as to potential threats, and recommend an appropriate response.

3. Councilor of Foreign Affairs
a. The Councilor of Foreign Affairs shall represent the Region and the Government of the North Pacific to the rest of the regions of Nation States.
b. The Councilor of Foreign Affairs shall be responsible for appointing, assigning, and overseeing a vigorous diplomatic corps (ambassadors and envoys), to establish relations with foreign regions that may be beneficial to the Region (said relations to be ratified by the Delegate’s Council), and will oversee the creation and regular update of reports on the political and diplomatic state of affairs of Regions throughout NS.
i. Members of the diplomatic corps must be members of the region.
ii. Members of the diplomatic corps may not hold office in an assigned region.

4. Councilor of Intelligence
a. Councilor of Intelligence shall oversee the gathering and dissemination of political and military intelligence of external threats to the Region and of internal threats to the Region.

Article II: Government

A. The Community Assembly
1. There shall be a Community Assembly of The North Pacific and the Community Assembly will sit in continuous session. All legislative and judicial authority in the North Pacific shall vest in the Community Assembly.

2. The Community Assembly shall create [non-amendment] legislation defining the difference between voting Citizens of The North Pacific and non-voting Sojourner members.

3. The Community Assembly shall create [non-amendment] legislation defining the requirements of any seeking admission into its numbers.

4. The Community Assembly shall elect one of its members to the office of Speaker of the Community Assembly (SCA) who shall oversee the functions of the Community Assembly.

5. The Community Assembly shall create [non-amendment] legislation defining its functions, rights, and powers – so long as these functions do not limit the Powers of the Delegate.

6. The Community Assembly will maintain a Ministry of Communication, a Ministry of Culture, a Ministry of Archives, and a Ministry of Justice for the Community. Ministers for these shall be elected from among the members of the Community Assembly. These Ministries shall not limit the Powers of the Delegate.

7. The Community Assembly will maintain a Court of the North Pacific.

8. The Community Assembly may create/dismantle any other Ministries it considers of benefit to the region and to the Community forum - so long as these Ministries do not limit the Powers of the Delegate. Any such creation will require a description of duties and responsibilities.

9. The Community Assembly may question the Delegate or any other government official about the performance of his/her duties.

B. Speaker of the Community Assembly (SCA)
1. The SCA of The North Pacific shall be elected, every two months, from among the members of the Community Assembly.

2. The SCA's main responsibility is to preside over meetings of the Community Assembly, keeping order and enforcing rules of conduct.

3. The SCA shall determine whether nations applying for membership in the Community Assembly meet the appropriate requirements.

C. Ministries of the Community Assembly

1. Minister of Communications (MiniComm)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase the profile of the government and the Region on the regional message board [RMB].
b. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase activity among the less active Nations in the Region.
c. The Minister, conjointly with the Minister of Culture, shall oversee the creation and dissemination of a Newcomer's Guide, and shall see that such a guide is located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum and is updated regularly.
d. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
e. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
f. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

2. Minister of Culture (MiniCult)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase the profile of the government and the Region in the Forum.
b. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase activity among the less active Nations in the Forum.
c. The Minister, conjointly with the Minister of Communications, shall oversee the creation and dissemination of a Newcomer's Guide, and shall see that such a guide is located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum and is updated regularly.
d. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
e. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
f. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

3. Minister of Archives (MiniArch)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall oversee the creation and maintenance of the Archives of the Community Assembly and the Court Tribunal and shall see that such Archives are separate and located in an easily accessible and public area of the Community forum and are updated regularly.
b. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
c. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
d. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

4. Minister of Justice (MiniJust)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase the profile of the government and the Region in the Forum.
b. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase activity among the less active Nations in the Forum.
c. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
e. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
f. The Minister shall be responsible for the creation of a Court Tribunal that shall be in charge of reviewing legislation for legality, ensuring that all legislation abides by the Constitution, and ruling on any matters of Constitutional Interpretation or criminal cases that may arise.
g. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

D. The Court Tribunal
1. The Court will consist of a 3 Judge Court Tribunal – a Minister of Justice and two Associate Justices.

2. The Court Tribunal will be responsible for [1] determining the constitutionality of challenged laws and [2] determining the validity of charges against member nations.

3. The Minister of Justice may convene a Court Tribunal for the review of legislation to determine legality, to ensure that all legislation abides by the Constitution, and to rule on any matters of Constitutional Interpretation or criminal cases that may arise.

4. The Associate Justices will be elected by the Community Assembly as follows: On an as needed basis for each issue presented to the Court, the Minister of Justice will submit a list of three to five potential Assistant Justices to the Speaker for the purpose of a vote by the Community Assembly and the two with the greatest percentage of votes will serve as Assistant Justices. The Associate Justices will preside over the issue until a resolution or decision has been reached.

5. If two or more issues are presented to the Court concurrently, the Minister of Justice must submit a list of three to five different potential Assistant Justices to the Speaker for each issue.

6. The Minister of Justice may dismiss any Associate Justice (but not both) from a case and the runner-up from that Associate Justice election will a assume the vacancy for the remainder of the issue.

7. The Court Tribunal shall have authority to make punishments whenever deemed necessary.

8. The decisions of the Court Tribunal are final.

9. Once a decision is made on a case, all nations of the region must be told of the result. There are to be no secret cases or verdicts.

E. Removal of Government Officials

1. Any government official of The North Pacific, other than the Delegate, shall be removed from office upon impeachment and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. If a SCA, or a Minister is removed, a new official shall be elected within two weeks.

2. Any member nation may make a motion in The Community Assembly asking for the removal any official, other than the Delegate. If a simple majority of the Community Assembly agrees with the motion, a Court Tribunal will conduct a hearing.

Article III: Bill of Rights

1. All North Pacific Nations are sovereign and have the right of self-determination in domestic policies, also known as Nation States Issues.

2. Rights to free speech, free press, and the free expression of religion will not be infringed as long as they do not [a] violate the same rights of others or violate the ToS of the Community forum. The Delegate, the SCA, and/or the Forum Owner shall be the ultimate judges of propriety.

3. Participation in the North Pacific Regional Government, Regional/Community forum, and Regional Military shall be voluntary.

4. No nation of The North Pacific holding UN member status shall be obligated to endorse any government official of the North Pacific. The right to add an endorsement or withdraw an endorsement will remain a sovereign right of the UN member nation.

5. All North Pacific Nations have the right to be protected against the abuse of powers by any government official.

6. Any Nation ejected from the region or banned from the Forum shall have an avenue of redress in the Forum as a Limited Member.  All matters of redress will be referred to a Court Tribunal.
i. Limited Members will have truncated reading and posting rights in the Forum.
ii. A Court Tribunal may decide to terminate, restrict or reinstate a Limited Member’s Forum rights but may not overturn the Delegate’s decision to eject or ban a nation from the Region.

7. When charged with criminal activity, Nations of The North Pacific shall enjoy fair and impartial Court Tribunals. Such Tribunals may occur and/or deliberate in a locked forum.

8. Any nation of the North Pacific may question the Constitutionality of any law passed by the Community Assembly and ask for a Court Tribunal for a determination of Constitutionality.

 

[Southwest Asia]

TAO's cool.

I'd support him as delegate if he ejected and/or banned every single recruiter that came through the region for no reason.

Don't ALL recruiters come through the region for a reason (ie, recruitment)?

As for the Constitution, I propose a much shorter and fluid one.

Preamble:

We, the People and Nations of The North Pacific, do establish the following Union:

Article I: Leadership
A. The Delegate
1. The UN nation of the Delegate must be a resident in The North Pacific.

2. The Delegate shall be the final Executive power of the North Pacific.

3. The Delegate cannot enforce any law or take any action that would violate this Constitution.

Article II: Law
A. Legislation
1. All legislation shall be written at a later time governing the functions of the region and shall be grouped together into categories for convenience.

2. No legislation may violate this Constitution except to abolish it. Such an action will take a 75% majority.

3. The Regional Assembly shall write all laws.

B. Rights
1. All nations have the right to a fair trial.

2. All nations have the right to petition.

3. All nations shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

4. Rights shall be enumerated later.

C. Judicial Branch
1. There shall be an independent judicial branch set up to interpret this Constitution and all laws. It shall have the power to strike down unconstitutional laws.

 

[Outer Kharkistania]

TAO's cool.

I'd support him as delegate if he ejected and/or banned every single recruiter that came through the region for no reason.

Don't ALL recruiters come through the region for a reason (ie, recruitment)?

No, I meant that he ejects them for no reason. I probably should have thrown a comma in there somewhere.

 

[Romanoffia (Guest)]

I, personally, would prefer a TNP native as delegate instead of relying upon foreign delegated who come in to 'mediate' a situation.

TAO has had a nation in TNP since March 2004. One doesn't get much more native than that.

TAO has come here at Flemingovia's invitation. Most of you know me. Many of you watched carefully to see what TAO would do as Delegate of TWP. Some may even have been surprised to see that TAO didn't usurp the region.

First and foremost, TAO is all about COMMUNITY. My years of works in all the feeders promoting a Community sense on the RMB is proof of that. And TNP has long been a region where TAO (under many names) has worked to bring such Community about ... with varying degrees of success. But Community is a two-fold creature in this Game. It has to happen ~out there~ on the RMB and ~in here~ in the Forum to be legitimate. Community is something that takes work and has to be nurtured.

IMO, this region has for too long stagnated under a smothering blanket of bureaucracy. That happens to regions when the players in them forget about Community ... forget that the other players are RL people ... forget that ALL of us here (and elsewhere in NS) are here because we are seeking something that we may not be able to find in RL ... a sense of real belonging to something.

Why do many of us keep coming back to this game or this forum day after day ... sometimes HOUR after HOUR? Not for the fun, I can assure you! We come ... TAO comes ... to find a Community.

Flem asked me about a government structure. I offer one below.

Flem asked my view on Gatesville. TAO is hurt that they all didn't come to my 1K Endo Event. But seriously ... IF TNP had a ~flourishing~ Community, Gates and L&C would never have thought an action (like the one taken) would be necessary. Their goal is to reinvigorate the game and ~hopefully~ create a Community enjoyed by many and not just a few who hold power.

I also want to say that I am not interested in game power for power's sake. I have it and have had it and, sure, it is "fun" but not all it's cracked up to be. More than anything, TAO is interested in developing a Community again in TNP. But that will never happen unless and until ALL OF YOU decide that a Community is what YOU want, too. And if you want it, you will work to make it happen. And once the Community is created, power will be seen not as something to lord over others but as something to be used to benefit all ... and then passed along to the next person with vision enough to use the power wisely.

So here you go. Say what you want ... you won't/can't hurt my feelings ... just so long as you say you want to work to create a real Community again. With TAO or without TAO is no big deal ... just MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Preamble:

We, the People and Nations of The North Pacific, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Creator of Nation States, and the Community of Friends who share themselves with us in affording us an opportunity to be relieved of the mundane features of Real Life now join together in forming a new Constitution of Civil Government, for ourselves and those who follow; and devoutly imploring the Delegate’s benevolence in so interesting a design, DO agree upon, ordain and establish, the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of The North Pacific.

Article I: Leadership

A. The Delegate
1. The UN nation of the Delegate must be a resident in The North Pacific.

2. The Delegate shall be the supreme onsite Executive power of the North Pacific and the Community Assembly may not limit the power of the Delegate.

3. The Delegate shall serve at his/her leisure and pleasure for a term of six months.  At the end of his third month, the Delegate should make a statement indicating his/her decision to continue as Delegate or to step down at the end of that term.

4. The Delegate may set and enforce an endorsement cap over the region at any time. Any imposed endorsement cap must not be set lower than 20% of the Delegate’s endorsements or 50 endorsements – whichever is greater.  Any pronouncement of an endorsement cap must be located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum and also posted on the RMB.

5. The Delegate shall only vote on UN Resolutions in accordance with the will of the majority of UN nations residing in the region and participating in the Community forum.

6. The Delegate shall name a Delegate’s Council -- consisting of Regional Guardians, a Councilor of Defense, a Councilor of Foreign Affairs, and a Councilor of Intelligence -- from nations within the region who are also Community forum members.

7. The Delegate shall select Regional Guardians to serve in the absence or incapacity of the Delegate. The Delegate may add or replace a Regional Guardian at any time.

8. The Delegate may not dismiss any official elected by the Community Assembly without a simple majority of support [aye/nay vote] from the Community Assembly. Any request for dismissal must be located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum.

9. The Delegate shall possess the right to veto any piece of legislation from the Community Assembly, excluding elections and impeachments. The veto can be overturned by a vote in the Community Assembly that receives a 3/4 majority of the voters.

10. The Delegate’s Council alone may approve treaties but the treaty approval can be overturned by a vote in the Community Assembly that receives a 3/4 majority of the voters indicating that the treaty is not in the best interests of the region.

11. The Delegate shall offer direction to the government through direct appeal to the Community Assembly.

12. The Delegate shall possess the power to pardon and exonerate anyone convicted of a crime by the Court of the North Pacific.

B. Delegate’s Council
1. The Regional Guardians
a. A Regional Guardian shall be selected by the Delegate from any of the UN nations resident in the North Pacific. The Delegate may replace a Regional Guardian at any time.
b. A Regional Guardian will be allowed to reach an endorsement level not to exceed 90% of the Delegate.
c. In the absence or incapacity of the Delegate, a Regional Guardian shall carry out the duties of the Delegate.
d. If the Delegate remains inactive for one week and has not notified the Delegate’s Council of said absence, a Regional Guardian may, upon approval of the Delegate’s Council, replace the Delegate by endorsement gathering. In such a case the Regional Guardian shall become the new Delegate.
e. A Delegate may select no fewer than four (4) and no more than seven (7) Regional Guardians.

2. Councilor of War
a. The Councilor of War shall be responsible for raising and maintaining an Army to defend the Region of the North Pacific against all threats, foreign and domestic.
i. Members of the Army must be UN members. Residency in The North Pacific is not required but is recommended. 
ii. The Councilor of War shall maintain a system of rank and advancement for the Army.
iii. Officer status within the Army will only be granted to members jointly approved by the Councilor of War and the Community Assembly.
b. The Councilor of War shall advise the Delegate and the Delegate’s Council as to potential threats, and recommend an appropriate response.

3. Councilor of Foreign Affairs
a. The Councilor of Foreign Affairs shall represent the Region and the Government of the North Pacific to the rest of the regions of Nation States.
b. The Councilor of Foreign Affairs shall be responsible for appointing, assigning, and overseeing a vigorous diplomatic corps (ambassadors and envoys), to establish relations with foreign regions that may be beneficial to the Region (said relations to be ratified by the Delegate’s Council), and will oversee the creation and regular update of reports on the political and diplomatic state of affairs of Regions throughout NS.
i. Members of the diplomatic corps must be members of the region.
ii. Members of the diplomatic corps may not hold office in an assigned region.

4. Councilor of Intelligence
a. Councilor of Intelligence shall oversee the gathering and dissemination of political and military intelligence of external threats to the Region and of internal threats to the Region.

Article II: Government

A. The Community Assembly
1. There shall be a Community Assembly of The North Pacific and the Community Assembly will sit in continuous session. All legislative and judicial authority in the North Pacific shall vest in the Community Assembly.

2. The Community Assembly shall create [non-amendment] legislation defining the difference between voting Citizens of The North Pacific and non-voting Sojourner members.

3. The Community Assembly shall create [non-amendment] legislation defining the requirements of any seeking admission into its numbers.

4. The Community Assembly shall elect one of its members to the office of Speaker of the Community Assembly (SCA) who shall oversee the functions of the Community Assembly.

5. The Community Assembly shall create [non-amendment] legislation defining its functions, rights, and powers – so long as these functions do not limit the Powers of the Delegate.

6. The Community Assembly will maintain a Ministry of Communication, a Ministry of Culture, a Ministry of Archives, and a Ministry of Justice for the Community. Ministers for these shall be elected from among the members of the Community Assembly. These Ministries shall not limit the Powers of the Delegate.

7. The Community Assembly will maintain a Court of the North Pacific.

8. The Community Assembly may create/dismantle any other Ministries it considers of benefit to the region and to the Community forum - so long as these Ministries do not limit the Powers of the Delegate. Any such creation will require a description of duties and responsibilities.

9. The Community Assembly may question the Delegate or any other government official about the performance of his/her duties.

B. Speaker of the Community Assembly (SCA)
1. The SCA of The North Pacific shall be elected, every two months, from among the members of the Community Assembly.

2. The SCA's main responsibility is to preside over meetings of the Community Assembly, keeping order and enforcing rules of conduct.

3. The SCA shall determine whether nations applying for membership in the Community Assembly meet the appropriate requirements.

C. Ministries of the Community Assembly

1. Minister of Communications (MiniComm)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase the profile of the government and the Region on the regional message board [RMB].
b. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase activity among the less active Nations in the Region.
c. The Minister, conjointly with the Minister of Culture, shall oversee the creation and dissemination of a Newcomer's Guide, and shall see that such a guide is located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum and is updated regularly.
d. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
e. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
f. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

2. Minister of Culture (MiniCult)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase the profile of the government and the Region in the Forum.
b. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase activity among the less active Nations in the Forum.
c. The Minister, conjointly with the Minister of Communications, shall oversee the creation and dissemination of a Newcomer's Guide, and shall see that such a guide is located in an easily accessible and public area of the Forum and is updated regularly.
d. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
e. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
f. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

3. Minister of Archives (MiniArch)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall oversee the creation and maintenance of the Archives of the Community Assembly and the Court Tribunal and shall see that such Archives are separate and located in an easily accessible and public area of the Community forum and are updated regularly.
b. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
c. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
d. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

4. Minister of Justice (MiniJust)
a. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase the profile of the government and the Region in the Forum.
b. The Minister, or any assistants the Minister shall appoint, shall work to increase activity among the less active Nations in the Forum.
c. The Minister shall define the requirements for the appointment of any Ministry assistants.
e. The Minister shall oversee the creation and maintenance of a Ministry Assistants Guide.
f. The Minister shall be responsible for the creation of a Court Tribunal that shall be in charge of reviewing legislation for legality, ensuring that all legislation abides by the Constitution, and ruling on any matters of Constitutional Interpretation or criminal cases that may arise.
g. The Minister shall be elected from the members of the Community Assembly and shall serve a two-month term.

D. The Court Tribunal
1. The Court will consist of a 3 Judge Court Tribunal – a Minister of Justice and two Associate Justices.

2. The Court Tribunal will be responsible for [1] determining the constitutionality of challenged laws and [2] determining the validity of charges against member nations.

3. The Minister of Justice may convene a Court Tribunal for the review of legislation to determine legality, to ensure that all legislation abides by the Constitution, and to rule on any matters of Constitutional Interpretation or criminal cases that may arise.

4. The Associate Justices will be elected by the Community Assembly as follows: On an as needed basis for each issue presented to the Court, the Minister of Justice will submit a list of three to five potential Assistant Justices to the Speaker for the purpose of a vote by the Community Assembly and the two with the greatest percentage of votes will serve as Assistant Justices. The Associate Justices will preside over the issue until a resolution or decision has been reached.

5. If two or more issues are presented to the Court concurrently, the Minister of Justice must submit a list of three to five different potential Assistant Justices to the Speaker for each issue.

6. The Minister of Justice may dismiss any Associate Justice (but not both) from a case and the runner-up from that Associate Justice election will a assume the vacancy for the remainder of the issue.

7. The Court Tribunal shall have authority to make punishments whenever deemed necessary.

8. The decisions of the Court Tribunal are final.

9. Once a decision is made on a case, all nations of the region must be told of the result. There are to be no secret cases or verdicts.

E. Removal of Government Officials

1. Any government official of The North Pacific, other than the Delegate, shall be removed from office upon impeachment and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. If a SCA, or a Minister is removed, a new official shall be elected within two weeks.

2. Any member nation may make a motion in The Community Assembly asking for the removal any official, other than the Delegate. If a simple majority of the Community Assembly agrees with the motion, a Court Tribunal will conduct a hearing.

Article III: Bill of Rights

1. All North Pacific Nations are sovereign and have the right of self-determination in domestic policies, also known as Nation States Issues.

2. Rights to free speech, free press, and the free expression of religion will not be infringed as long as they do not [a] violate the same rights of others or violate the ToS of the Community forum. The Delegate, the SCA, and/or the Forum Owner shall be the ultimate judges of propriety.

3. Participation in the North Pacific Regional Government, Regional/Community forum, and Regional Military shall be voluntary.

4. No nation of The North Pacific holding UN member status shall be obligated to endorse any government official of the North Pacific. The right to add an endorsement or withdraw an endorsement will remain a sovereign right of the UN member nation.

5. All North Pacific Nations have the right to be protected against the abuse of powers by any government official.

6. Any Nation ejected from the region or banned from the Forum shall have an avenue of redress in the Forum as a Limited Member.  All matters of redress will be referred to a Court Tribunal.
i. Limited Members will have truncated reading and posting rights in the Forum.
ii. A Court Tribunal may decide to terminate, restrict or reinstate a Limited Member’s Forum rights but may not overturn the Delegate’s decision to eject or ban a nation from the Region.

7. When charged with criminal activity, Nations of The North Pacific shall enjoy fair and impartial Court Tribunals. Such Tribunals may occur and/or deliberate in a locked forum.

8. Any nation of the North Pacific may question the Constitutionality of any law passed by the Community Assembly and ask for a Court Tribunal for a determination of Constitutionality.

I know, Tao, I was just being sarcastic towards BW. ;D

But there is one really glaring defect in your constitutional draught -


Article I:

2. The Delegate shall be the supreme onsite Executive power of the North Pacific and the Community Assembly may not limit the power of the Delegate.

That essentially gives the delegate free hand to do anything at all including nullify the constitution. There must be limits on executive authority or you end up with exactly what we now have in TNP. And, despite all good intentions, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It always does.

Since most of us strive for a representative form of government which would naturally take the form of a republic, it is absolutely necessary that the Delegate serve at the pleasure of those he represents and not the other way around. Government is an excellent servant but a terrible master. I have no doubts about your ability to be a delegate and would support you in that capacity given that some form of 'social contract' would be arrived at to define the Delegate's authority and hold all other rights in reserve to the people whom the Delegate is elected to represent.

I appreciate Flem's invitation he extended to you, but it appears as though, given your draught of a constitution not arrived at by democratic means, that such an invitation is tantamount to inviting a monarch in to rule the region. Add to that item that not too many people were consulted about such and invitation.

I have no doubts about your benevolent intent, but what happens afterwards when you are no longer delegate? Legitimizing ultimate executive authority to one individual leads to having someone eventually being tempted to do exactly what L&C has done. And it will happen again.

Call me old-fashioned, but I firmly believe that governments govern by the consent of the governed; that all rights belong to the people and are not gifts of the government; and that the people reserve the immutable right to alter or abolish any government that is destructive to their interests and well being. Having a constitution imposed without debate is distasteful no matter how well intentioned and properly constructed, or not, that constitution is.

It is also my opinion that the Delegate's primary role is to obey the wishes of those he governs, in essence, the Delegate is governed by the will of the people. It is also the duty of a Delegate to assure and promote activity on the regional forum and to preserve the legitimate primacy of said forum.

I got sucked into supporting a Delegate who called for change. I don't hide the fact that I voted for L&C for delegate because I believed what he promised and he lied. He lied to all of us. But we got change, nonetheless, and it was change for the worse. He abused the public trust and stabbed the whole region in the back by changing the forum and inviting a whole three-ring-circus of invaders in to prop up his sorry but.

I know you and from all my experience, I trust you personally to do exactly what you say. I trust you with all the powers of Delegate and trust you to act in the best interests of the region and its citizens. But there is at least one thing that needs to be constitutionally established so that in the event a future Delegate after you goes rogue, we actually have the power to remove that Delegate:

1. The Delegate and the Government proper needs to work to assure that as many nations as possible who endorse the Delegate be active forum members and that they be members of a Regional Assembly. The reasoning is that if a Delegate goes rogue, all endorsements can be systematically removed, en masse, in one fell swoop.

2. That the Delegate or his assigned agents, be personally responsible for promoting forum and RMB activity.

3. No nation be ejected and/or banned for expressing opinions contrary to the ruling government unless it is a violation of TOS of the presiding forum or worse.

4. That the Delegate have no authority in off-site forum administration whatsoever; and any attempt by the Delegate to remove the off-site forum to another forum without specific consent of the government (on the forum) be ground for immediate impeachment and removal of the Delegate and such an act by the Delegate be defined as High Treason.

The best government is a government that governs the least.

The regional forum should be a meeting place and not a bone of contention and it can only be such if forum administration is entirely out of the hands of the Delegate.(see #4).

Again, if you really want the position of Delegate, I will support you with the proviso that you (and I trust you on this one) will not silence, stifle or eject any nation by arbitrary acts dependent soley upon the powers of the Delegate.


R

 

[Emperor Matthuis]

I find it interesting that TAO's proposal actually reinstates many of the things that were abolished in the old constitution like the MOC, MOCE etc.

 

[Romanoffia (Guest)]

I find it interesting that TAO's proposal actually reinstates many of the things that were abolished in the old constitution like the MOC, MOCE etc.

Interesting point. I think the idea is to increase activity my giving people the actual opportunity to take part. It resembles a semi-constitutional monarchy, but game mechanics dictates such an arrangement by nature.


R

 

[Poltsamaa]

Yes, that "getting more people to take part" thing worked wonders!! Why was it we got rid of it then?!

Oh, because the positions are meaningless fluff and those elected to those roles realised it within a week and went inactive!!

 

[Southwest Asia]

Yes, that "getting more people to take part" thing worked wonders!! Why was it we got rid of it then?!

Oh, because the positions are meaningless fluff and those elected to those roles realised it within a week and went inactive!!

To be fair, all positions besides Delegate are meaningless fluff.

 

[Outer Kharkistania]

I like the short constitution. Someone should institute it somewhere.

 

[TAO]

Yes, that "getting more people to take part" thing worked wonders!! Why was it we got rid of it then?!

Oh, because the positions are meaningless fluff and those elected to those roles realised it within a week and went inactive!!

To be fair, all positions besides Delegate are meaningless fluff.

Polts and SW A ... NationStates is meaningless fluff, boys (and girls) ... if you really want to get technical. But I would question why you would want a Community with meaningless positions. Is Delegate the ~only~ position in the region or the forum worth striving for? If that is your opinion, then you are the wrong kind of person to bring into leadership. Like William Wallace said in BraveHeart, "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it." Perhaps this is the under-pinning problem in TNP ... too few are noble enough to serve selflessly and/or with distinction.

OK ... TAO will admit he is not a typical NS player. Since TAO began playing this game 4 years ago, I took EVERY position offered seriously. Perhaps that is due to my RL worldview and my understandings of authority and of dedication. Anything/Everything I do, I try to do to my very best ability ... and when that is not possible, I choose to step aside and give the job to someone with more energy and, perhaps, greater vision than I. Maybe the players you claim were given meaningless fluff jobs just weren't the right persons for those jobs. Perhaps they lacked energy or vision or pride in a job well-done. Maybe they were "gold diggers" looking for a quick game label to show off their "power". TAO has seen dozens of players like that.

Romanoffia ... Perhaps your difficulty with my Article 1 stems from the general lack of nobility that TNP suffers. You do have a valid point about a delegate becoming a despot, if the delegate is a power monger and not a true leader. But isn't that going to be true for ~any~ government structure you create in this region? [ Isn't that the problem NOW?] The Game recognizes the delegate as THE regional power even if/when the FORUM COMMUNITY does not. [Don't we see this happening now? And hasn't this fact been the main theme of TNP since UPS Rail?]

The saving factor in my proposal is, imo, the Guardians factor. By raising up several (4 to 7) Guardians in the region who are allowed to collect up to 90% of the delegate's endos, any rogue delegate would have a ~difficult time~ taking and holding control of the region ... and any outside force trying to take control would never be strong enough to succeed. I say ~difficult time~ because it is still possible a for a rogue delegate to conspire with a majority of the Guardians for usurping control. The ~trick~ to safety and stability then becomes one of finding and supporting 4 - 7 noble-minded players as Guardians who are willing to support the region with their Influence and are willing to SlingShot in or out of the delegate position as needed or required. IF ... IF you can find a delegate and at least four other like-minded players, this region would stabilize itself. Imo, anyway.

Yes it is a Constitutional Monarchy ... but that is (again, imo) better than a Absolute Monarchy or a Dictatorship. Or a Rogue Delegate.

 

[Poltsamaa]

To be fair, all positions besides Delegate are meaningless fluff.

Yes, but of the fluff positions some are more fluff than others!!

Polts and SW A ... NationStates is meaningless fluff, boys (and girls) ... if you really want to get technical.

I realise NS is fluff in the context of all there is in the univere, but if we are to play the game then how about we discuss it on the forum designed for such discussions without the pretentious bullshit?!

But I would question why you would want a Community with meaningless positions.

If you can point out where I said I did then please quote it, otherwise I think you have no idea what you are talking about!!

Is Delegate the ~only~ position in the region or the forum worth striving for?

If you want true in-game power, yes!! If you want to be involved in off-site government and political discussion, then no!!

If that is your opinion, then you are the wrong kind of person to bring into leadership. Like William Wallace said in BraveHeart, "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."

Again, if you can point out where I have indicated this is my opinion, quote me or quit typing shit!!

Perhaps this is the under-pinning problem in TNP ... too few are noble enough to serve selflessly and/or with distinction.

Says Mr.I've been here 4 years and done jack shit but now I'll come across and become unelected delgate and talk down to everyone else!! Piss off!!

 

[Flemingovia]

Now that is enough. TAO came here at my invitation to open up a discussion about his views on the delegacy etc. As such he deserves better than to be sworn at and insulted.

I have no problem with robust political debate but Poltsamaa, you have gone too far.

 

[TAO]

Polts ... your "tone" conveys those things you claim never to have said.

Yes, that "getting more people to take part" thing worked wonders!! Why was it we got rid of it then?!

Oh, because the positions are meaningless fluff and those elected to those roles realised it within a week and went inactive!!

And I think you overlooked that my comments were made to both you AND SW A.

And you are less than correct in stating TAO has done "jackF!SH" for this region. While it is true that I have stood on the periphery of the forum, ... the bullF!SH after PixieDance with its multiple forums and politics of destruction left me with a sour stomach for TNP politics ... TAO has been involved for YEARS on TNP's RMB and has more than once tried to stimulate the region into recapturing the RMB for TNP.

And forgive me if you believe TAO was talking down to you ... I didn't think that was possible toward one so "superior".

But again I will say ... Perhaps this is the under-pinning problem in TNP ... too few are noble enough to serve selflessly and/or with distinction. If all you crave is the cream without regard for the milk or the whey, then with your perceived level of agitation, the cream is becoming only whipped fluff.

Who among you would ~willingly~ give up the delegate's seat in TNP? Maybe a better question is ... Who among you would be unafraid to give up the delegate's seat in TNP?

 

[Eluvatar]

Countless delegates of TNP have given up the Delegate's seat.

In fact most of them have.

The pattern of rogue and usurpation has not been the theme of TNP since UPS Rail. It had not happened for two years between Pixiedance and Chodean Kal.

Here is a list of some TNP delegates who have stepped aside:

1. Nastic
2. Treenudity
3. The twoslit experiment
4. Wilkshire
5. Magicality
6. Thel D'Ran
7. Sydia
8. Lungwallabad
9. Stars of Sky
10. Flemingovia
11. Former English Colony (Erastide)
12. Hepzibah II (Honeysheep)
13. Unterwasserseestaat
14. Great Bights Mum

All of these TNP delegates passed on the delegacy without struggle.

There's an awful lot of them, isn't there?

 

[TAO]

I would agree, Eluvatar ... many of those who came AFTER the rogues were among the more selfless.

 

[Govindia]

I've been silent on this for quite sometime and mainly it's been because I've been very undecided about this, about many things.

TAO and I have our differences yes, that is clear. However, whatever situation happened in TWP stays in TWP and I will do my best to not bring it over here, and I wish TAO does the same out of respect, if nothing else.

Yes, activity has been a problem in TNP. I disagree however, with the means to boost it. Being active only on the RMB isn't really counting for much since RMB posts aren't saved all the time, compared to forum.

I do have to agree with Romanoffia to an extent. TNP is supposedly a democracy, not a monarchy. Any constitution that is drafted should not be done by a few, but in a democratic manner, one that guarantees a clear separation of powers, with clear rights granted to citizens, so that they may express their views in a civil manner without reprisals or repression.

There are other opportunities to get involved in a regional government than to clamour for power for the delegacy. I don't think that it is necessary to have a group of "Guardians" who decide the executive leadership of the region. The delegate should be natively-selected, a native who's been active in the community, not just on the RMB, but in the forum as well. One who's committed to democracy and defending and upholding the legislative documents passed. If one does not like how the constitution is, amend it. Don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

We should give someone else a chance to be a delegate, rather than one who's been in power before for quite some time, be it here or in another region. Give some of the newer members a chance to try and help improve their region. They may not have experience as you TAO, but that gives new blood, and new ideas to bring to the table.

My

 

[TAO]

There are other opportunities to get involved in a regional government than to clamour for power for the delegacy. I don't think that it is necessary to have a group of "Guardians" who decide the executive leadership of the region. The delegate should be natively-selected, a native who's been active in the community, not just on the RMB, but in the forum as well. One who's committed to democracy and defending and upholding the legislative documents passed. If one does not like how the constitution is, amend it. Don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

No one is "clamoring" here. And having a group of Guardians is THE BEST way to protect the region onsite. With a dedicated team of 5 such players, a feeder region could switch delegates every three months and never be taken by any outside power or internal coup ... save for an action involving a majority of the Guardians themselves. However, no where is it stated that the Guardians decide the executive leadership. If anything, the Guardians ~monitor~ the delegate.

We should give someone else a chance to be a delegate, rather than one who's been in power before for quite some time, be it here or in another region. Give some of the newer members a chance to try and help improve their region. They may not have experience as you TAO, but that gives new blood, and new ideas to bring to the table.

I came here at Flem's request, Ram. Would I like to be delegate in TNP ... sure. For a long time I have thought about how to create a Community sense in a feeder and I think I proved it was possible in ~you know where~. Do I ~crave~ to be delegate? No. I really don't care about power like you or others do. I see it as a tool and not as a badge.

TNP will eventually have a stable region under Lewis & Clark (if the Game continues) but it will not include this forum. While the Influence rules will slow him down, L&C will eventually be in power long enough to boot one, then another ... and eventually all contenders to his throne. Once that is accomplished, just like Franco did in TP, this region will see a dramatic shift to his forum and his style of control.

The Dominion in TWP would have succeeded. If those of us who were its Core had not stepped aside for the good of the Community, the Dominion would even NOW be in power in TWP ... and likely in another feeder or two. Similarly, L&C will eventually succeed unless either some real resistance or a real alternative is offered. With that in mind, Ram, who do you propose to be the kind of leader you need? Who among the untried n000bs and n000blings has the clout and/or charisma to succeed?

Whoever you have in mind better respond soon.

Yes, activity has been a problem in TNP. I disagree however, with the means to boost it. Being active only on the RMB isn't really counting for much since RMB posts aren't saved all the time, compared to forum.

This one statement ... more than any other ... shows your limited understanding of real power in NS. If you do not own your own RMB, you own NOTHING! If you give your RMB away to AdSpamming recruiters, you give your region away, too. Conversely, if you maintain control of your RMB, the region AND THE FORUM will prosper. If you learn nothing else from this thread, please learn that.

 

[Emperor Matthuis]

The way I see it, this is all futile.

The differences between the 'Old Guard' and Westwind and his supporters are far too wide to be reconciled. Furthermore, what is in it for them? They wanted power, and to get away from the 'Old Guard', compromising would mean ruining these two goals. It would also ruin their rhetoric about sweeping away the old members of The North Pacific. Most importantly perhaps, it would damage their pride, to have everyone know that they were weak and forced to compromise.

The 'Old Guard' would have similar problems, to compromise they would lose significant amounts of their power. I could well see new forum admin, most likely a new forum and other sacrifices. It too would greatly weaken their power, and the region would be steeply divided, and I would suspect that Westwind and his supporters would merely bide their time until they could finish Great Bights Mum and the others.

I have no doubt that TAO would do a good job, but I think everyone knows that and it is not really the issue here. The issue here is really having a compromise made.

There are also various important security issues, TAO would take years to get above minnow, consider that Westwind had been in TNP for around a year with a high endorsement count and is still a minnow. One of those numerous guardians would most likely coup the region at some point.

 

[Flemingovia]

TAO, I disagree with you on two points;

With a dedicated team of 5 such players, a feeder region could switch delegates every three months and never be taken by any outside power or internal coup ... save for an action involving a majority of the Guardians themselves.

I think the current situation disproves that. We effectively have a Guardian system - with GBM, Unter and FEC. Yet by banjecting the minnows who support them, Westwind remains in power.

While the Influence rules will slow him down, L&C will eventually be in power long enough to boot one, then another ... and eventually all contenders to his throne.

Not if L&C continues on his current tactic. If he continues banjections it will take years for his influence to build to such a point that he can ban GBM etc.

 

[Poltsamaa]

Now that is enough. TAO came here at my invitation to open up a discussion about his views on the delegacy etc. As such he deserves better than to be sworn at and insulted.

I have no problem with robust political debate but Poltsamaa, you have gone too far.

You are so cute when you are angry!! I take exception to being accused of saying things I never said!! By all means discuss his offer to become delegate of the region but when he starts making crap up and attributing it to me then I'll tell him where he can take his lies and innuendo!!

 

[TAO]

I love it when you talk cheap, Polts.

 

[TAO]

Flem,

I agree under current conditions it will take much time to resolve. That is why any "compromise" delegate would have to be endorse by everyone and everyone would have to agree to endorse only that one delegate. With 500+ endorsements in a region where all others have a dozen or fewer, even a Minnow can hold his/her own.

 

[Poltsamaa]

Polts ... your "tone" conveys those things you claim never to have said.

Actually, my tone conveyed the exact opposite of what you assumed, oddly enough, so did my words!! Try reading what I said next time!!

And I think you overlooked that my comments were made to both you AND SW A. 

And you are less than correct in stating TAO has done "jackF!SH" for this region.  While it is true that I have stood on the periphery of the forum, ... the bullF!SH after PixieDance with its multiple forums and politics of destruction left me with a sour stomach for TNP politics ... TAO has been involved for YEARS on TNP's RMB and has more than once tried to stimulate the region into recapturing the RMB for TNP.

Big deal!! You came here accusing myself and SWA of not being noble enough to step up and do a job for TNP and I called bullshit on it!! Now, if that accusation came from someone who had done something for the region I d cop it on the chin, not agree with it, but accept that that is their opinion!! But when someone who wants to waltz in and take over the region after 4 years of lurking and doing nothing says it, well they can get stuffed!!

And forgive me if you believe TAO was talking down to you ... I didn't think that was possible toward one so "superior". 

Wow, such facetiousness!! I'm touched!!

But again I will say ... Perhaps this is the under-pinning problem in TNP ... too few are noble enough to serve selflessly and/or with distinction.  If all you crave is the cream without regard for the milk or the whey, then with your perceived level of agitation, the cream is becoming only whipped fluff.

I have served in many roles, seeing as you have never been active I am not surprised you have no idea about that!! Repeating the same patronising accusations over again does not make them correct!! I suggest you go back again and read what I have posted in this thread!! Not what you want to read, but what I actually typed!!

Who among you would ~willingly~ give up the delegate's seat in TNP?  Maybe a better question is ... Who among you would be unafraid to give up the delegate's seat in TNP?

Me!! I have no interest in being Delegate and never have had any interest in becoming Delegate!! Its you that is being elevated to Delegate with no history of any contribution to the region!! I think I'll call you Ivan!!

 

[Romanoffia (Guest)]

The way I see it, this is all futile.

The differences between the 'Old Guard' and Westwind and his supporters are far too wide to be reconciled. Furthermore, what is in it for them? They wanted power, and to get away from the 'Old Guard', compromising would mean ruining these two goals. It would also ruin their rhetoric about sweeping away the old members of The North Pacific. Most importantly perhaps, it would damage their pride, to have everyone know that they were weak and forced to compromise.

The 'Old Guard' would have similar problems, to compromise they would lose significant amounts of their power. I could well see new forum admin, most likely a new forum and other sacrifices. It too would greatly weaken their power, and the region would be steeply divided, and I would suspect that Westwind and his supporters would merely bide their time until they could finish Great Bights Mum and the others.

I have no doubt that TAO would do a good job, but I think everyone knows that and it is not really the issue here. The issue here is really having a compromise made.

There are also various important security issues, TAO would take years to get above minnow, consider that Westwind had been in TNP for around a year with a high endorsement count and is still a minnow. One of those numerous guardians would most likely coup the region at some point.

The problem is that most of the collaborators supporting L&C are, in fact, "Old Guard".

The very problem that led up to this issue was the dedication of "The Old Guard" to allow power to change hands to newer members. The problem is that Lewis and Clark betrayed that trust and spit all over the very ideals of democracy that the "Old Guard" worked so long to preserve. L&C grabbed power for the sake of power. That alone in and of itself is reprehensible.

Your issue of the "Guardians" deciding to hold a coup is entirely unfounded. But the ability of the Guardians to potentially seize power is a very powerful check on a Delegate who wanders from the straight and narrow. That whole concept falls straight into line with my personal belief that government governs at the consent of the governed and that the people always hold the right to alter or abolish and government that becomes destructive. And what L&C has done is destructive - he declares people criminals by an act of his own distorted will. Hardly constructive and very destructive at best.

I've looked over in detail what TAO has suggested as a constitution and there are a lot of good items in it. Some things can be altered, changed or removed, but it is a very effective starting point.

What we need to do is to elevate the application of game mechanics and institute a system/government that can counterbalance the ultimate autocratic powers of a regional delegate. I think this is a good starting point.

I'm not averse to the implementation of what is essentially a constitutional monarchy provided we establish a coordinated system in which a core of dedicated people can use a coordinated effort to apply game mechanics to remove a delegate who gets too big for his or her breeches. I think that such an arrangement, applied by truly dedicated people can and will work.

I may be a cynic, but I am also an optimist.


R

 

[TAO]

Oh Polts ...

you lack discernment. And you lack vision. It would seem, though, that you possess an excessive amount of bullF!SH that you like to fling about. And, yes, I believe you lack nobility ... but this opinion has now been based on your current behavior ... and your tone. IF you think you sound otherwise, I think you may be tone deaf. TAO was more than able to read what you wrote. Perhaps you should learn to write what you mean. [TAO will let the last shot be yours ...

]

Roman ... TNP is free to any, all, or none of my suggested political construct. I know their are keener political minds in the game and I never have pretended to be a political wizard. I have simply come and done what I was asked to do by Flemingovia. If you or anyone else does decide to use some of it, I would be interested in seeing the evolution of the thoughts.

EM ... Finding Guardians that can be trusted is a most difficult task. There are few players out there with such integrity but they do exist. While it might appear they are all in TWP, I believe there are many here in TNP as well who simply need an opportunity to prove it.

 

[Poltsamaa]

Oh Polts ...

you lack discernment.  And you lack vision.  It would seem, though, that you possess an excessive amount of bullF!SH that you like to fling about.  And, yes, I believe you lack nobility ... but this opinion has now been based on your current behavior ... and your tone.  IF you think you sound otherwise, I think you may be tone deaf.  TAO was more than able to read what you wrote.  Perhaps you should learn to write what you mean.  [TAO will let the last shot be yours ...

]

My words:

Yes, that "getting more people to take part" thing worked wonders!! Why was it we got rid of it then?!

Oh, because the positions are meaningless fluff and those elected to those roles realised it within a week and went inactive!!

Your interpretation:

But I would question why you would want a Community with meaningless positions.

Now, how you managed to construe my words in that manner is beyond me!! You should reread my words and then apologise for your pompous misrepresentation of them!! I thought that, by describing these meaningless positions as "fluff" and questioning why they would be reinstated, my stance was clear enough to anyone that I did not support a government with meaningless positions within it!! Somehow, you decided I was saying the opposite, despite my continued statements to the contrary and all available evidence to the contrary!!

Its not about firing the last shot, it is about stopping you misrepresenting my words in the manner that you are!!

What me correcting your erroneous assumptions has to do with my vision I have no idea!! No one has sought my opinion on the future of this region!! I had some part in the new constitution that resides on this forum now, not a lot but my 2c was given!!

The only person flinging bullshit around is you despite my requests you correct your error!! You claim that no one has nobility yet you continue to peddle untruths and refuse to correct your mistake and apologise to me for peddling the lies you have!!

Give me blunt honesty over candy coated lies any day!!

 

[TAO]

 

[Poltsamaa]

Just as I said, you throw around accusations about lack of nobility yet you cannot even man up and apologise for your mistake!! Let alone repeating it ad nauseum despite the evidence showing you were wrong!!

Nobility, my arse!!

Why we would want such a dishonest nation as our delegate I'll never know!! Less so one with no accountability!!

 

[Sydia]

So we now have to import suitable delegates? What a sad state of affairs. Not that I have anything against TAO of course, but it speaks volumes about the state of the region.

 

[Honeysheep]

Hang on..
So, an elected native delegate who imposes his own constituion is a bad thing?
and a forgien one who does the same is a good thing?

I resent the implication that we can't govern ourselves, or that none of us could be trusted to take guardian positions because we are all far too power hungry. El posted the list, so...

 

[Flemingovia]

HS: The views of anyone deserve to be heard and discussed. That is why I invited him here. I said in the opening post that I do not endorse or support those views. So for me his delegacy would not be a "good thing".

The weakness of TNP was always that it depended on honourable conduct from the delegate. You behaved so, as did others, but I suppose it was only a matter of time before Gates found a delegate who would give him what he wanted (UN votes) in exchange for power.

Nor do I think we have to import delegates. History has shown that there are a number of TNP natives who are capable of seeing the delegacy as an opportunity to serve rather than a bauble to be possessed. The fact that the crimson order has stalled into lethargy so soon shows where THAT leads.

in a sense, this is an academic discussion - L&C will not give up the delegacy without a fight, and Gates will support him as long as L&C votes in UN issues as Gates commands. But in a political sim it is always interesting to talk about new ideas.