Traitor New Kervoskia

Pierconium:
Except that if the masses truly were dissatisfied with the Delegate then they could voluntarily remove their endorsement, without the prompting of unendorsement propaganda.  The fact that the masses are either happy or indifferent doesn't actually effect the right of the Delegate to do as he or she chooses with or without the consent of a minority delegation government that is housed offsite unless he or she chooses to do so.
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I am in complete agreement with this statement.

If you care to see it proven out just watch Moo's endorsements. Even if you take in to account the foreign aid he has requested, his count steadily drops. It's not in reaction to the silly and irritating propaganda that's posted on the board. It's not in reaction to unendorsement TGs sent from the remnanats of that "minority delegation government that is housed offsite. " It's not a reaction at all.

The People of The Pacific no longer feel the Delegate is relevant enough to either fear or favor. The endorse him when they are in the mood. Otherwise they don't. Most leave the region falling victim to userite promises of excitement.

The Delegate's position is actually quite secure in this manner. He doesn't even need an off site forum at all. So long as he watches endorsement counts and ejects anyone approacing his count, he will reign forever (or until he forgets to log in on the same day someone remembers there is a Pacific and wouldn't it be cool to give it a government that impacted the game).

EDIT: As I read back I see we started talking about EM somewhere along the line. While the principles remain the same in every feeder, I'm honestly not keeping track of all the little everyday trivia he's up to. Personally, I just think it's pretty cool he took a feeder. I thought this was a discussion of TP and it's tivia. lol
 
The Delegate's position is actually quite secure in this manner. He doesn't even need an off site forum at all. So long as he watches endorsement counts and ejects anyone approacing his count, he will reign forever (or until he forgets to log in on the same day someone remembers there is a Pacific and wouldn't it be cool to give it a government that impacted the game).
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:)
 
To point out one minor flaw in the arguement above I will note (without trying to get too offtopic since the admin here has already warned us) that the Delegate of The Pacific has continuously, since the days of Mammothistan and Unlimited before him been at an endorsement level of between 170 and 210 nations with the number fluctuating occasionally to the lower or upper end of those extremes. The great nation of Pierconium, who swept the region of all non-UN nations that were not expressly supportive of it, enjoyed a level closer to 240 for a period of time but that was shortlived.

The simple fact is that The Pacific specifically has not had substantial endorsement levels for its Delegate since Francos Spain was the highest endorsed nation in the whole of NationStates shortly before his departure for this region and then oblivion.
 
To see Darkesia as embittered as has been the case in this thread, is saddening.

I miss the one who had the silver tongue, never ceasing defender of Pacific values.

Is Moo's Pacific truly a Francoist Pacific? No. But at the same time one has to wonder if the old regime was simply better at keeping differences amongst themselves than TP's present (or near present) incarnation?
 
Now,

The fact is this: if Moo Cows hadn't become inactive and passive, and was willing to use the Pacific's vast resources to help out his fellow Feederites, Matthuis wouldn't have even DARED to do what he did without failing utterly. The Pacific's neutrality and passivity in the face of this war (and pretty much everything) indicates that it doesn't care what happens on Nationstates be it the Userites or the Feederites. It is a "Sycophant" regime, and the Sycophant Class would not have appeared if it weren't for the cybernations/nationstates cross-contamination that Moo Cows promoted.

Ivan Moldavi,

The Pacific is in a cultural vacuum because, yes, there is no need for an offsite forum to perpetuate the Pacific government's existence. The reason why Francoism is centered around the Delegacy is so the Delegate can defend the Feederites internally and externally from the userite threat, in the inital stages of the Revolution, so Feederite culture can be protected. The Francoist revolution is a cultural revolution. Remember that before you place all your trust in Moo Cows.
 
Chairman Alexis:
Now,

The fact is this: if Moo Cows hadn't become inactive and passive, and was willing to use the Pacific's vast resources to help out his fellow Feederites, Matthuis wouldn't have even DARED to do what he did without failing utterly. The Pacific's neutrality and passivity in the face of this war (and pretty much everything) indicates that it doesn't care what happens on Nationstates be it the Userites or the Feederites. It is a "Sycophant" regime, and the Sycophant Class would not have appeared if it weren't for the cybernations/nationstates cross-contamination that Moo Cows promoted.

Ivan Moldavi,

The Pacific is in a cultural vacuum because, yes, there is no need for an offsite forum to perpetuate the Pacific government's existence. The reason why Francoism is centered around the Delegacy is so the Delegate can defend the Feederites internally and externally from the userite threat, in the inital stages of the Revolution, so Feederite culture can be protected. The Francoist revolution is a cultural revolution. Remember that before you place all your trust in Moo Cows.
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In regards to your first comment, I disagree on the state of The Pacific. It may be undergoing a period of transition and a lull in activity but it is far from a vacuum. Eventually all good Pacificans return from the Diaspora.

Regarding the second, you obviously are one that hasn't taken the time to study the history of Pierconium or its related nations from their past in the NS world.

If anything is true in this world it is this: In Ivan we Trust.
 
if Moo Cows hadn't become inactive and passive, and was willing to use the Pacific's vast resources to help out his fellow Feederites, Matthuis wouldn't have even DARED to do what he did without failing utterly.
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Look, I don't know or even care who you are, are but acting as though you can second guess myself and Emperor Moo is just ridiculous. Unless you actually have any idea what you're talking about then don't bother posting.
 
Ivan,

In no way was I implying that you were untrustworthy. I simply find it comical that the activity level on the Pacific's forum is still low even by userite standards (the new members are trickling in, but wiping out the large Sycophant Class in the Pacific will take a VERY long time if the CN-NS cross-contamination continues). This is the case even though the Pacific does not even have to worry about recruitment and maintenance, since it has an infinite number of nations trickling in.

So the fact that Pacific culture has stooped that low shoud have been something unheard of. And yes, the Pacific "diaspora" will come trickling back on, but you will soon notice something: that the current regime has been permanently tainted in the eyes of the Pacifican people and in the eyes of the true Francoists, and by the Sycophants that came on from Cybernations and have no investment in NS as a whole.

I highly respect your opinion and your amount of intellect, but I would like to bring this point up: the most active userite regions in this game have probably a 1/10 activity ratio - and this includes the efforts put into recruiting as well as redistribution of nations. The Pacific, which only has to deal with redistribution (meaning that, theoretically, activity should be alot higher than even the most active Userite region), only has about a 10/4000 activity ratio.

Combining this with the fact that most people in the NS world think that Francoism is dead for this reason (thank you Moo cows) we can only assume two things:

1. Francoism did, in fact, implode on itself and is dead as an ideology - the Delegate became a great bloated hawk that sat upon the WFE like a nest of eggs that were never going to hatch on its own.

2. Francoism was just the first stage of the general Feederite Revolution - because the Feeder regions implicitly do not need a delegate to survive, loyalty must gradually shift to whoever runs culture rather than whoever controls the WFE. We know from the example of Matthuis that the delegate has no power unless he installs a forum-culture that represents the region itself. Delegates who fail to do this are liable to be overthrown. If Matthuis had taken over the Pacific, who would have revolted against him?

3. Francoism will continue to live, but will manifest itself in a new form.
 
Many people believe that one nation can not change this world.

I stand in contradiction to that point, and have stood so on several occasions.

The Pacific will return to a position of prominence and power by sheer force of my will, if for no other reason. I am not concerned with what some believe to have been the mistakes of the recent past or what some believe to be ongoing issues with The Pacific itself. What I am concerned with is from this point moving forward and I can tell you that I do not associate myself with second tier regions or cultureless communities so by virtue of my being present in The Pacific most of what you claim to have been calamities of the recent past no longer exist.
 
But the circumstances are a first, are they not? I don't think the Pacific was a cultural desert at any other time beforehand, and especially not since Franco promised a social culture to the Pacific.
 
your never going to beat Ivan in a debate about francoism ffs.

i'd concentrate on the here and now rather than ideology if I were anyone
 
FL does have a point, somewhat. The here and now is what matters. You and Franco are different people - I cannot expect you to act in the same manner as him.

btw, I was in the Pacific in the final month of his delegacy (I played at the most basic level up until about two years ago, my nation in TP was something - "grad").

I am keeping tabs on your forum. People are joining the Party, but your culture is neither social nor intellectual. I see no contributions being made to Francoist literature within your region, I see no discussion, and no charisma on behalf of anyone on the forum.

That is, beyond Matthuis who just joined the Party and swore allegiance to his friend Moo Cows. And anyone with even a modicum of intelligence knows that Matthuis is held privy to the Userites and has done more than anyone to work against Feederite sovereignty - depriving loyal Feederites of their homeland and keeping himself in power with Userite armies.

He claims that his goal was to form a Francoist State. But because his "revolution" was not Feederite, he failed. The entry of Matthuis into the Party only shows that the Pacific government only pays lip-service to Feederism and no longer has any revolutionary fervor or "grassroots" support.

And yes, the FUPS has thrown Francoism into a limbo - some people even dare to call it "dead". Moo Cows' weak leadership and Matthuis' have thrown the idea of delegate-centered rule into question. Your own covering of Moo Cows' bovine behind and creating a forum culture without his involvement also throws this aspect of Francoism into question.
 
That is, beyond Matthuis who just joined the Party and swore allegiance to his friend Moo Cows. And anyone with even a modicum of intelligence knows that Matthuis is held privy to the Userites and has done more than anyone to work against Feederite sovereignty - depriving loyal Feederites of their homeland and keeping himself in power with Userite armies.
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I thought I made this clear in my last post.

Emperor Matthuis:
Look, I don't know or even care who you are, are but acting as though you can second guess myself and Emperor Moo is just ridiculous. Unless you actually have any idea what you're talking about then don't bother posting.
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Firstly, Emperor Moo is not my friend. I do not play NationStates for friends and I do not consider anyone I have come across here a friend. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, instead of making stuff up, instead try and actually educating yourself on the subject.

So I am 'held privy' to the userites? I don't believe so, I am a citizen of both The Pacific and The East Pacific, and also a Senator of Taijitu. I make no secret of the fact that if a choice had to be made I would sacrifice my ties to Taijitu for the good of The Pacific. I had no ties to Gatesville, Catlandatopia or any other userite regions before I couped the region, and now is no different.

He claims that his goal was to form a Francoist State. But because his "revolution" was not Feederite, he failed. The entry of Matthuis into the Party only shows that the Pacific government only pays lip-service to Feederism and no longer has any revolutionary fervor.
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My Revolution failed due to a lack of influence, simple game mechanics that got me elected, were also my downfall. As for the rest, again if you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother posting.
 
Chairman Alexis:
FL does have a point, somewhat. The here and now is what matters. You and Franco are different people - I cannot expect you to act in the same manner as him.

btw, I was in the Pacific in the final month of his delegacy (I played at the most basic level up until about two years ago, my nation in TP was something - "grad").

I am keeping tabs on your forum. People are joining the Party, but your culture is neither social nor intellectual. I see no contributions being made to Francoist literature within your region, I see no discussion, and no charisma on behalf of anyone on the forum.

That is, beyond Matthuis who just joined the Party and swore allegiance to his friend Moo Cows. And anyone with even a modicum of intelligence knows that Matthuis is held privy to the Userites and has done more than anyone to work against Feederite sovereignty - depriving loyal Feederites of their homeland and keeping himself in power with Userite armies.

He claims that his goal was to form a Francoist State. But because his "revolution" was not Feederite, he failed. The entry of Matthuis into the Party only shows that the Pacific government only pays lip-service to Feederism and no longer has any revolutionary fervor or "grassroots" support.

And yes, the FUPS has thrown Francoism into a limbo - some people even dare to call it "dead". Moo Cows' weak leadership and Matthuis' have thrown the idea of delegate-centered rule into question. Your own covering of Moo Cows' bovine behind and creating a forum culture without his involvement also throws this aspect of Francoism into question.
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Perhaps you could enlighten me on the logic behind categorizing an entire regional government on the acceptance of one nation into its structure?

Should I go through the list of Regional Assembly members here and categorize this region on the different aspects and personae characterized therein? No. That would be absurd and ignorant. Thanks for playing though.

Continue to keep tabs on the forum though. :bigdoh:
 
My Revolution failed due to a lack of influence, simple game mechanics that got me elected, were also my downfall. As for the rest, again if you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother posting.
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It failed because it was doomed from the onset. A true leader does not blame game mechanics for his inability to consolidate power quickly, in his own right.


Perhaps you could enlighten me on the logic behind categorizing an entire regional government on the acceptance of one nation into its structure?
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A political party, namely the Francoist Party, is nothing else BUT the sum of its constituents. And Matthuis' belief that a feederite takeover can take place with the help of userite armies will further weaken the entire party line.

And as your specific government is based on a single party line, we know that this is a reflection of the government itself.
 
That was almost a good dodge of the question. The question, however, still stands. Just as you state the Francoist Party is based on a single dogma in TP the same can be said about the Regional Assembly in this region. Those that join agree to the tenets of the Constitution here, so my position is still intact.
 
Pierconium:
That was almost a good dodge of the question. The question, however, still stands. Just as you state the Francoist Party is based on a single dogma in TP the same can be said about the Regional Assembly in this region. Those that join agree to the tenets of the Constitution here, so my position is still intact.
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and what dogma would that be in TNP?

Were one to ask what is the dogma of TP and what is the dogma of TNP, I truly doubt that the answers given for the latter would find half as much congruence as those provided for the former.
 
punk d:
Pierconium:
That was almost a good dodge of the question.  The question, however, still stands.  Just as you state the Francoist Party is based on a single dogma in TP the same can be said about the Regional Assembly in this region.  Those that join agree to the tenets of the Constitution here, so my position is still intact.
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and what dogma would that be in TNP?

Were one to ask what is the dogma of TP and what is the dogma of TNP, I truly doubt that the answers given for the latter would find half as much congruence as those provided for the former.
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That the region is governed by the Constitution and that the Constitution is the ultimate Law in this region, regardless of what any sitting Delegate has to say on the situation?

Seems pretty universal among those that are active here.
 
But a constitution does not ask its supporters to follow a single political stance and support a certain person or group of people.

And please adress my point that Moo's leadership has thrown Francoism into crisis.
 
Chairman Alexis:
But a constitution does not ask its supporters to follow a single political stance and support a certain person or group of people.

And please adress my point that Moo's leadership has thrown Francoism into crisis.
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You didn't make an actual point that needs addressing from what I can see.

I have stated on this board and others that the blame for the current situation in The Pacific does not lie solely with the Delegate. Several nations that were given responsibility and privilege in that region are to blame collectively. Of the three former Senators that have been speaking out against the Delegate only one, Darkesia, was measureably more active than the former himself and she primarily stuck to the RP aspects of the region moreso than the political side. The other two were no more active, in fact one was substantially less active, than the Delegate and they, as part of the Pacific Senate, held just as much responsibility to maintain the culture as the Delegate himself did.

Continuing to place all blame on the Delegate is a fallacy.
 
How can you tell us to place our trust in the delegate, and that the delegate has the final word in all affairs, but equally blame the Senate for the Pacific's problems?

And indeed, you don't have to be more active than everyone else in order to be a leader. I measure leadership by its accomplishments!
 
Chairman Alexis:
How can you tell us to place our trust in the delegate, and that the delegate has the final word in all affairs, but equally blame the Senate for the Pacific's problems?

And indeed, you don't have to be more active than everyone else in order to be a leader. I measure leadership by its accomplishments!
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Then what are your accomplishments?

If you are going to pass judgement on The Pacific, its leadership and its structure then surely you are speaking from a position of authority on the situation, correct?

If not then you are simply, to put a fine point on it, speaking out of your ass.

Unless you have a working knowledge of The Pacific leadership structure then you have no grounds from which to comment. The Senate of The Pacific includes the Delegate so if I say that the blame lies with the Senate as a whole then that is the correct position.
 
That sort of reminds me of this:

Conrad Burns during the 2006 Midterm Elections:
He [Jon Tester] said our president (doesn’t) have a plan. I think he’s got one, but he’s not going to tell everybody in the world,” Burns added. “If you want to go out and spar for a fight, are you going to tell your enemy what your plan is? I don’t think so.”

Burns later said: “There is a plan. We’re not going to tell you, Jon.”
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There are no plans available in this world that would accomplish the necessary 200 endorsement jump needed within one update period to accomplish the end result some parties seem to be seeking.

It was a stretch at the time of Great Bight, it failed against Pixiedance (under The Minister) and the general active population of NationStates has been in steady decline since.

Logistically speaking, it is nearly impossible for such a scheme to work. (OOC Note: I am well aware that cheating is not above certain parties in regards to puppetmaster campaigns, etc., but speaking within the realms of the game as they currently exist no such plans will work.)
 
From what I have heard, the Mods will no longer allow a puppetmaster attack. Yet another point that falls against such plans.
 
Lewis and Clark:
From what I have heard, the Mods will no longer allow a puppetmaster attack. Yet another point that falls against such plans.
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You just have to do a puppetmaster attack just right in order to avoid Mod anger. And I know exactly how that is accomplished. And no one else does, except the mods.
 
conspiracytheorydv9.jpg
 
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