Dalimbar

Whilst I sit in total ignorance of the goings-on behind the scene, it looks to me that the Gatesvillians are not leaving- in fact their numbers have continued to rise.
 
Nev will do whatever she wants. Dalimbar asking her to leave, at this point, would do little.

Edit: Also, is there any chance we could get an updated list of the Gatesville nations? Eras had mentioned that it might be helpful for her tarting and such.
 
They're withdrawing, so it seems.

16 minutes ago: The Sword of Domocolees departed this region for Gatesville
20 minutes ago: The Solitary Confinement State of The GM Warden departed this region for Gatesville
22 minutes ago: The Holy Empire of DarkNecrom departed this region for Gatesville
24 minutes ago: The People's Republic of Aegis Firestorm departed this region for Gatesville
25 minutes ago: The Armed Republic of Rocket Saws departed this region for Gatesville
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EDIT:
Gatesville RMB:
WE STAND AT DEFCON 4. Troops return to Gatesville.
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Gatesville seems to be withdrawing.

The forum URL is back in the WFE.



Did this seem impossible three days ago? Unlikely, at least. Yet, here we are. Not out of the woods for sure but in a better position than we were before. With time to spare before Harry Potter too. I said I'd give things a shot.
 
First impression: Why orange? Why not a nice shade of Gryffindor crimson? Now, every time I look at the book, I want an orange and cream popsicle.
 
The British and American editions have different covers; i's just h US edition that has the orange.

(Blame CNN for that little nugget of information.) :lol:
 
Upper Kirby have you been talking to Dalimbar recently, do you know if he going to be announcing a new government? Is there any news that you have really?
 
It's a bit wet outside and the power doesn't like to be reliable. And unexpected image macros on the internet have spoiled Harry Potter away.


Our forum is back in the WFE. The question of whether or not we shall continue to exist has been solved. Whether Dalimbar or anyone else realizes it or not this is a not insignificant thing for us. Whoever's story is the true version of events, Gatesville's very well tossed off about Dalimbar now. How doesn't that work for us? Certainly erodes away at the support base a bit in favor of landing us some better footing. Ol' Kirby's a sly one isn't he.
 
Yes, so you have actually been in contact with Dalimbar? Elections are soon and although I am unable to participate, it would seem futile to have elections for a region we don't actually control.
 
Has any progress been made? Any agreements that have been ironed out? What is the fate of the TNP government? Will the government be streamlined and made more efficient?
 
The pre-election schedule should have started already , and if the Cabinet believes a delay is required, then they need to propose something to the Regional Asssmbly to adjust the election schedule.

Otherwise, we just need to get on with the election of new Ministers and Security Council now. Likewise the Chief Justice posiion should have been nminad for a vote before month's end.

As it seems Dalimbar has no plan, I suggest the Cabinet uphold its oahs under the Constitution and get a move with elections for the Cabinet, Delegate, and the SC, as well as the Chief Justice position.

The first Cabinet was elected without a Delegate, so it has been done, and it can be done again.
 
Dalimbar is term limited under the Constitution, and couldn't run in elections this time around. Ever wonder if that was a motivation?

Not holding elections would be the same as rolling over and playing dead into the hands of a ill-concieved stunt, and would be definitely self-destructive as a region.

As it is, Dalimbar's stunt has sucked whatever acivity there was at the time out of the region, so whatever he thought he is doing, it has already backfired to everyone's detriment. Notwithstanding Dalimbarr's endorsement of the University, he's even managed to suck the life out of that area of the forums as well.

And considering that more forum members have applied to join the Regional Assembly than who have left , I would say that there's more potential is resuming from where we are, than being sucked into the black hole of a rogue delegate, IMHO.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
As it is, Dalimbar's stunt has sucked whatever acivity there was at the time out of the region, so whatever he thought he is doing, it has already backfired to everyone's detriment. Notwithstanding Dalimbarr's endorsement of the University, he's even managed to suck the life out of that area of the forums as well.
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It was unfortunate that people became sidetracked with these events and seemed to forget about final exams <_<
 
Wow, you people aren't taking this situation seriously at all, are you? He broke several very clearly outlined laws and he's not even on trial for it. Perhaps the activity on the forums is dropping not because of Dali's actions but because the government no longer cares what happens to the region.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Dalimbar is term limited under the Constitution, and couldn't run in elections this time around. Ever wonder if that was a motivation?

Not holding elections would be the same as rolling over and playing dead into the hands of a ill-concieved stunt, and would be definitely self-destructive as a region.

As it is, Dalimbar's stunt has sucked whatever acivity there was at the time out of the region, so whatever he thought he is doing, it has already backfired to everyone's detriment. Notwithstanding Dalimbarr's endorsement of the University, he's even managed to suck the life out of that area of the forums as well.

And considering that more forum members have applied to join the Regional Assembly than who have left i would say that there's more potential is resuming from where we are, than being ucked into the black hole of a rogue delegae, IMHO.
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First off activity was going away long before Dalimbar's stunt, let us get that straight. How has Dalimbar sucked the life out of the TNP uni? Gross, while Dalimbar's actions are the antithesis of democracy and probably were poorly thought out. Do not use him as a scapegoat for the inactivity around here.

In fact Dali's stunt actually has gotten me to become more active in TNP again. Weird, huh? ^_^

Part of the reason why I stopped posting in TNP's forum and lack of activity here was because the forum was becoming way to quiet and sluggish. It appeared to me folks were seeming apathetic, things seemed to take forever to get accomplished around here, and then there was the massive amount of BS around the Mesian trial. The trial soured me quite a bit.

Elections are not bad, I like elections. When I was founder of 'The Exodus' I was a huge advocate of democracy. But, the last elections were just in May. Do we need to hold them so soon? Democracy is a great trait when executed properly, but you also need consistency. While having a person in power for to long is bad, having them in power for a short time is not great either. And frankly many nations probably get bored with having elections so often. I am not implying we get rid of elections, that would be silly.

How about we actually take time to re-evaluate the government and the dynamics of the region and get to the root causes of the inactivity here.
 
Elections would be a better way of getting any discussion of that type started. Elections have been held every three months for over two years; those holding office find that it's difficult not to be dragging after one term, and it takes a strong constitution to get through two consescutive terms in office.

Since our constitution has a mechanism by which to adopt changes (no matter how much or how little they may be), I still believe that is the best way to proceed. Many proposals have passed, many oher have not, so it seems to be a mechanism that can be used to create a consensus or at least, a brad majority with the 3/4rds approval requirement.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Elections would be a better way of getting any discussion of that type started.  Elections have been held every three months for over two years; those holding office find that it's difficult not to be dragging after one term, and it takes a strong constitution to get through two consescutive terms in office.

Since our constitution has a mechanism by which to adopt changes (no matter how much or how little they may be), I still believe that is the best way to proceed. Many proposals have passed, many oher have not, so it seems to be a mechanism that can be used to create a consensus or at least, a brad majority with the 3/4rds approval requirement.
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A rather weak response, Gross. It is broad not brad. ^_^

Elections are not the solution to the ailments that are afflicting TNP. It is a stop gap measure, a bandaid one might call it. The real solution is one that gets to the very root of the problem and attempts to solve the problem and set us on a new course that will hopefully steer us away from the same mistakes/problems.

Dalimbar made a tough call, at least he had the ability to do that. And hopefully Dalimbar's actions provided the catalyst for the change that is sorely needed here.
 
The fact is that Dalimbar hasn' the slighest clue of where he would go, and there is no reason why an existing process can;t be used.

I do believe, hough that an elected member of the government who no longer believes they can uphold the values and substance of the sysem we have (including the values stated in the Declaration of Rights, should resign.

As to a comment I saw somewhere; everyone has sixty days to start a proceeding against Dalimbar. There was an outstanding petition for a recall, bu if elections were organied by now as they should have been, we'd be in the midst of replacing Dalimbar.

I do not see any philosophical or pracical reason why elections, as well as introducing proposals in the RA can't be the basis of the process of discussion. Among other things no other process exits, and more importantly, the process is designed to encourage participation to reach a consensus. If some thing is not passed, then that should be read as a demonstration that a clear and overly large majority not agreeing o a particular idea.
 
We cannot use scapegoats and elections to cure our problems. Dalimbar is not the reason we have no activity in our forum. The problem is rooted much deeper then that and you know that Grosse. Grosse your denial of the fact that our system has failed and needs revamping is exactly one of the symptoms of our ailments. Lack of will to except and remedy our problems.

I saw this with the trial of Mesian.

You cannot keep jamming the circle into the square hole and hope that it will fit one day. You cannot keep doing the same things and expect a different outcome. Things just do not work that way.

As I said I support democracy, but when democracy becomes a huge, bloated bureaucracy that is choking our activity levels and is causing folks to feel bitter then I say we have some problems to deal with. Problems that a simple election will not fix and make them go away like they never, ever happened.

- Joshua

P.S. elections and introducing changes in the RA will simply take to long Grosse and you know that. Even you must realize that there has been a steady decline in the overall forum activity. Also, the governments response or lack of response to this situation is appalling.
 
Joshua:
We cannot use scapegoats and elections to cure our problems. Dalimbar is not the reason we have no activity in our forum. The problem is rooted much deeper then that and you know that Grosse.
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Inactivity in Nationstates comes and goes. I've seen it many times before. As the months progress this will change in TNP as it does in every other region. It has nothing to do with our government.

Regardless, we should not change our government every time a few less posts appear on our forum. Inactivity is not caused by the government style, it is caused by the people.

And if the people do find change necessary, we should NEVER bring it about by a dictatorship. That is not going to bring about the desired results. It will bring about tyranny.
 
Ator People:
Joshua:
We cannot use scapegoats and elections to cure our problems. Dalimbar is not the reason we have no activity in our forum. The problem is rooted much deeper then that and you know that Grosse.
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Inactivity in Nationstates comes and goes. I've seen it many times before. As the months progress this will change in TNP as it does in every other region. It has nothing to do with our government.

Regardless, we should not change our government every time a few less posts appear on our forum. Inactivity is not caused by the government style, it is caused by the people.

And if the people do find change necessary, we should NEVER bring it about by a dictatorship. That is not going to bring about the desired results. It will bring about tyranny.
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A dictatorship? A dictatorship would have been the exchange of ownership of Pixiedance, now that was a dictatorship. Dalimbar has not scrapped the government or constitution. I think you are reaching at straws, for the moment.

The government has caused much of the current inactivity. By the way Ator People I have been in the game for 3+ years, so I to have seen activity rising and falling as the time of year changes. I strongly believe our lack of activity stems from other sources.

The current government is a slow and lumbering bureaucratic machine where any change or progress takes quite along time. Longer then it should. I doubt that simply holding elections will cure our ailments. We need to re-examine the constitution and our governmental structure. We need to see what we can get rid, what areas we can merge together and in general how we can streamline the management of our region so that things are a bit more expedient. That way folks will not lose interest due to the god awful amount of time anything takes to get accomplished.

Also, I am rather appalled by the lack of response or show of progress in handling the current situation. I also am appalled at how some people have wanted to use Dalimbar as a scapegoat for the lack of activity currently afflicting us. We cannot use a scapegoat every time we run into problems so that we avoid actually dealing with these matters.

I believe that many people feel change is needed, but are unsure of how to make such changes, or they feel that the powers at be will resist any real and meaningful change or it will take forever for such changes to come into being.

So, while Dalimbar's actions were not ideal, some times people need an event like this to snap them out of their malaise so that they confront the issues in front of them.
 
Joshua:
A dictatorship? A dictatorship would have been the exchange of ownership of Pixiedance, now that was a dictatorship. Dalimbar has not scrapped the government or constitution. I think you are reaching at straws, for the moment.

The government has caused much of the current inactivity. By the way Ator People I have been in the game for 3+ years, so I to have seen activity rising and falling as the time of year changes. I strongly believe our lack of activity stems from other sources.

The current government is a slow and lumbering bureaucratic machine where any change or progress takes quite along time. Longer then it should. I doubt that simply holding elections will cure our ailments. We need to re-examine the constitution and our governmental structure. We need to see what we can get rid, what areas we can merge together and in general how we can streamline the management of our region so that things are a bit more expedient. That way folks will not lose interest due to the god awful amount of time anything takes to get accomplished.

Also, I am rather appalled by the lack of response or show of progress in handling the current situation. I also am appalled at how some people have wanted to use Dalimbar as a scapegoat for the lack of activity currently afflicting us. We cannot use a scapegoat every time we run into problems so that we avoid actually dealing with these matters.

I believe that many people feel change is needed, but are unsure of how to make such changes, or they feel that the powers at be will resist any real and meaningful change or it will take forever for such changes to come into being.

So, while Dalimbar's actions were not ideal, some times people need an event like this to snap them out of their malaise so that they confront the issues in front of them.
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A dictatorship is defined as
System of government in the hands of a single person
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Dalimbar refused to recognize the government on this forum as the legitimate ruling body of the region. He took the power of the government into his own hands; out of the hands of the people and into the hands of a single person. Dictatorship? I suppose one must consider definitions at this point.

With all due respect, deputy minister, denying the people the right to elect their leader is hardly democratic. With talk to cancel delegate elections, we move farther and farther away from a democratic republic.

I want to make it clear, however, that I do want this situation to end with peace. Dalimbar has worked with the regional government to figure out a solution. I hope that this will continue and lead to a peaceful transition of power to the new ELECTED delegate after the next elections.
 
Ator People I find it troubling that you believe new elections will fix our ailments. We need strength and leadership right now to fix the maladies that are afflicting this region. If part of the cause of our problems is an overly cumbersome constitution and bureaucratic system, how can electing a new government that is governed by these things fix any of our problems?

Let us not look past the fact that the elected government has done little to nothing to fix the problems of this region and to tackle the current crisis. This does not give me faith in our democracy, government or constitution. We need a government that will work for the people, that will be as expedient and efficient as possible. A government that will rise above petty problems and resort to using scapegoats to avoid tackling the real issues. We need to realize that the current system is broken and is not working any longer.

We need to take a hard look, make some tough decisions and fix this region. At some point once we have tackled this matters then elections will be needed and we can get back on track. But, until holding elections will only serve as a quick fix, not a real and lasting fix.

For now at least it seems Dalimbar provides us with the greatest hope of accomplishing these goals.
 
As do I find it troubling that you think democratic elections will be counterproductive.

In all my time on Nationstates I have not lost faith in democracy. Sure, it can be difficult at times. But the best governments aren't always easy to run.

Yes, there are flaws in our government. But at least we have the ability to speak out and speak for change. And everyone has that ability, not just one elected official.

Is it hard to follow a constitution? Would it be easier for a select few to decide how the region is run? The answer to both is yes.

But why take the easy way out? Why not strive for something better.

Thomas Paine sums it up perfectly:

The American Crisis:
Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
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Let us pursue democracy and the rights of the people. We have DUTY to the four thousand nations in our region. I do not believe that we may ever deny people the right to choose their leaders.
 
Ator People:
As do I find it troubling that you think democratic elections will be counterproductive.

In all my time on Nationstates I have not lost faith in democracy. Sure, it can be difficult at times. But the best governments aren't always easy to run.

Yes, there are flaws in our government. But at least we have the ability to speak out and speak for change. And everyone has that ability, not just one elected official.

Is it hard to follow a constitution? Would it be easier for a select few to decide how the region is run? The answer to both is yes.

But why take the easy way out? Why not strive for something better.

Thomas Paine sums it up perfectly:

The American Crisis:
Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
Click to expand...

Let us pursue democracy and the rights of the people. We have DUTY to the four thousand nations in our region. I do not believe that we may ever deny people the right to choose their leaders.
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Ator People you are missing the point. I want democracy, I want a democratic system that will work for the region and the people. But, I also want a system that will be efficient and will not choke regional activity. As this current system of governance seems to be doing.

I did not say they would be counterproductive, but simply elections are not enough to fix our problems. I never stated that a select few should decide our course and heading as a region. But, the government does not seem up to the ask of tackling the problems that we are facing.

Elections, if they occurred on schedule, which would be approximately now would not fix any of our ailments. That government would be held accountable to our cumbersome constitution and this cumbersome constitution is contributing to our woes.

First, as a region we need to tackle the issues and problems, determine the solutions that are needed to remedy these problems and then go forth to getting back on track. Revamping the constitution and government, etc. Then we can hold elections and put a new and hopefully more representative, fair and efficient government into office.

Please fully read my posts before you hastily post a response.
 
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