Mesian for MoIIA

So you are in fact confirming that this is a matter to do with NPIA personnel. Thank you.

I will wait on the matter-- my earlier question to the Candidate still stands though :P
 
Methinks it may be a bit late for that, Grosse. People are going to ask questions and want answers. The existance of a law one way or the other isn't going to stop the people of The North Pacific from questioning what appears to be an operation way beyond the normal boundaries of the NPIA.

Completely separate from that issue is the fact that this topic has become fairly central to the race for Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs. Discussing this issue is very relevant to the elections, and it seems awful fishy to me that you post this now. Seems an awful lot like an attempt to gag everyone and hope this goes away.

Edit: Clarification in first paragraph, and a couple typos.
 
Gaspo:
Completely separate from that issue is the fact that this topic has become fairly central to the race for Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs.  Discussing this issue is very relevant to the elections, and it seems awful fishy to me that you post this now.  Seems an awful lot like an attempt to gag everyone and hope this goes away.

Edit: Clarification in first paragraph, and a couple typos.
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To be honest, I don't see continuing this discussion to be central to the topic at hand, namely, that of elections. If your intention was to cast doubt on Mesian's character or intentions, you have already succeeded.

Any further elaboration on what Mesian did or didn't do for the NPIA in The Pacific is a NPIA and a political matter. Certainly, they should be discussed, as they have potentially grave ramifications with regards to our relationship with The Pacific, but its details are absolutely not relevant to this election or this thread.

One has to wonder, though. If he was a NPIA agent ordered on a NPIA mission, why are we coming down so hard on the agent (obscenity and spamming on the NPO boards, aside)? One has to wonder if such actions were taken due to an innate immaturity, or if the mission details required it.
 
Gaspo, I'm not in a position to confirm or not confirm, because I do not have any independent information about it.

For that matter, there are only two people that might -- and one of them has retired from Nationstates, and the other hasn'y been heard from is a month.

So making assumptions about any of this is not called for. That is one reason wny I pointed to the provision of the Constitution.

The fact that a candidate for a Mnisterial position has chosen to ignore the law in this issue, also should raise questions about their character, and their willingness and ability to enforce, obey and follow the law. The issue plays both ways from where I'm siting, and neither candidate is looking better for it.
 
Personally, I think the suggestion that it was an NPIA operation is far more damaging than anything else said in this thread.

Because of this, I can't find it in myself to vote for you.

I'm afraid you do not have my support, Minister.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Constitution Article III Section 2 Part 2 Clause C:
Any matter concerning the Agency's activities and personnel, except in the case of a criminal prosecution, shall be discussed in confidence without reference in any public record; however, there may be disclosure of confidential information in connection with a criminal or impeachment proceeding. The Prime Minister shall be responsible to the Cabinet and the Regional Assembly for the ongoing oversight of the Agency.
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Before y'all go over the deep end, I'm reminding y'all of the above. At the moment I am unable to say anything one way or the other, and until I can find a way to get information, I would ask all of you to address this topic in such a way as to not violate that quoted passage.
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Whoah. So you're saying it was actually something to do with the NPIA, not Mesian just being an idiot? Well thats good to know.

Who needs oversight of our intel agency eh? What would be the point of that? :eyeroll:
 
Vitrionia:
Personally, I think the suggestion that it was an NPIA operation is far more damaging than anything else said in this thread.

Because of this, I can't find it in myself to vote for you.

I'm afraid you do not have my support, Minister.
Click to expand...
I have to wonder why this is.

What is so repulsive to you? Is it that he was an intelligence operative? Is it that he was an operative for the NPIA? Is it because he's the "fall guy"? Is it because the NPIA Directors haven't shown up yet?

Basically, how does this operation being NPIA run offend you so much that you cannot vote for one of its former agents?

(I guess these questions might sound a bit hostile, but the way your phrased your reasoning left me wondering. Just curious.)
 
If the NPIA is running operations into feeders, I don't think the populus should find out through the suggestion of it by someone trying to save their own back.

Mesian has all but said "The NPIA ordered me to go into the Pacific and make a dick of myself". Already, the Pacific are asking questions about it that it appears we can't answer at this time.

If the honourable minister is willing to involve the region in an international incident to protect his election campaign, then what else would he do to save his own ass?

That is why I cannot vote for said candidate, not because of my dislike of the NPIA.


Perhaps, MO, you could ask these questions of me in a private message. I'd hate to muddy up the honourable minister's election campaign any more than it already has been.
 
@ Elu -

In every situation, the ends justify the means. If I speed, I deserve the speeding ticket, if I serve my region, I deserve to be ridiculed. But what the main aim of the question is, i believe, is whether or not I will justify less then moral (or legal) actions, by the ends which they produce.
No I would not. When I spoke of the ends and the means, I was talking of my experiences as a spook, and both normally, mission survival, my survival and that of my region, depended upon engineering the appropriate ends, which sometimes required less then good actions.
I have made a transition from this pysche to that of the more conventional approach, and it has served me well. My experiences have allowed me to enter into situations with a broader approach, by not just understanding the civil concequences, but the concequences for the soldiers, the intelos and those strategic personell who the defence of the region depends upon.
I would suggest this can be seen in such initiatives such as the Regional Assistance Mission, which not only sees the liberation of a region, but the re-development, looking at governments, armies, intel agencies and helping with foreign affairs to gain recognition and strength through numbers. This increases the chance of regional survival after an invasion-liberation.

@ Vitrionia -

I did not say those words to cover my arse, far from it. I answered Gaspos question, it was others who brought the issue and questions out, as I actually did not, nor have, stated it was a NPIA mission, it is only your asusmption it is.

I would also like to take this oppurtunity to announce that I am withdrawing my candidacy from the election. Believe it or not, RL issues have occured which would make it impossible for me to fully fufill a term as MoIIA.

Also, the contreversy surrounding this issue will not serve the region well, if, by the off chance, I would be elected MoIIA.

Keep it Real

Mesian
 
You said you weren't allowed to mention it because of TNP law; due to the circumstances, it implies that it was because of an NPIA or NPA action. It's not hard to put two and two together, Mesian.

Anyway. Good luck with your RL issues.
 
Best of luck, Mesian. As we discussed privately last night, I bear no ill will toward you in any way. Take care.
 
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