Mesian for MoIIA

[Mesian]

MESIAN FOR MINISTER OF IMMIGRATION AND INTERNAL AFFAIRS

Who am I?

Hey, I am Mesian, currently the Minister of Defence. My experience in NS is mostly in Security and Defence as such, spending time in both Defender and Invader groups, working for Multi-Regional organisations and also acting as a mercernary, though, for the majority of the last 5 or 6 months, I have been resident in TNP, contributing to the overall regional security by membership to various organisations, including the NPA and the Workgroup on Security and Defence.

When it comes to people, I dont take shit, and try to say it straight, and know where I want to be.

Ok, great to hear that, but why MoIIA?

Apart from being somewhat sick of soldiering on NS, the position of MoIIA offers and exciting oppurtunity to contribute towards both the development and security of the region? Why, because essentially, the MoIIA handles two (2) things believe it or not;
1) Immigration, and
2) Internal Affairs
(Step Back)

It is easy to forget that the MoIIA is more then the bouncer to the region.

Great, so the MoIIA is more then a Bouncer, but what is this 'more'?

Basically, the Constituion outlines the duties of the MoIIA as being responsible for communicating with new nations, overseeing RA membership, compiling domestic intelligence and enforcing Regional guidelines, alot more then checking I.P's
(Do you get it, no really, do you...?)

So we know what this more is, what are you going to do about it?

After reviewing the MoIIA forum, I can see that there have been attempts to fufill this role, but it appears that they have not came to frutition. So what am I proposing to change this? Simple, a little bit of a military (or organised) approach to the
situation.

Essentially the constitution breaks down the responsibilities into 3 categories;
1) Communicating with new nations, helping them out and making the little buggers all warm and fuzzy inside
2) Providing 'Protective Services' to the region by gathering domestic Intel and enforcing the law
3) Oversee the RA acceptance process, and ensure the steady flow of new faces into the snake pit

If elected, I would organise essentially 2 Departments of the ministry to deal with these duties,
1) The Department of Protective Services (NORForce)
2) The Department of Immigration

Without getting into the nitty gritty shit just yet, NORForce would be responsible for Regional Security issues and the DoI would be responsible for immigration (go figure??)

Protective Services... sounds a bit like big brother...

Not really. They are there to help. They would be trained in the basics of conflict resolution as well as protective services, and would be able, through the MoIIA to bring cases against those discovered to be in breach of the constituion or legal code. They would also look at dealing with violations of the 15 line limit, and implementing measures to make members approachable, to be able to assist with any problem an individual might have.

Ok, so they arn't big brother, but isn't that what NPIA is for?

No, not really, NORForce would be responsible for domestic security, NPIA for all foreign operations and strategic inteligence gathering. Looking at it in relative terms, its like looking at the roles of ASIO (DPS) and ASIS (NPIA),or for those in the U.K - MI5 (DPS) to MI6 (NPIA), and for those in the US - FBI (DPS) to CIA (NPIA).

What about the DoI, what does that offer that we don't already have?

Nothing really, accept organisation and the ability for case management. Now, that dosn't mean we micro-manage the person, but immigration officials would be able to help new nations grasp the basics of NS (Issues, RMB, Telegrams and the such), and then invite them to become members of the TNP forums, and hopefully, the RA.
The more friendlier we are, the more nations that will be willing to become part of us, which then will have a flow on effect in regard to regional activity, member retention, NPA recruitment, Diplomatic Corps recruitment, RPing and OOC involvement.

Life in TNP starts with the MoIIA, so it better look good!

Cool, so if elected, all these uber things will begin to occur, but will this be hard to set up?

My experience in regard to re-strucuring (i.e.: The NPA) is that if the effort is put in, the more active people will be. Already, there are nations willing to help, so why not use them? Also, individuals who can't make update, or are not keen on moving between regions would have an oppurtunity to work towards the greater good of the region, in a security enviroment.

Alrighties, How do you look at elevating the long waits for RA Membership if elected?

RA membership will be awarded to successful applicants once a week. This will let people know where they are at, and ensures that interest in the game, or the region, does not subside, as it has done in the past.

Also, I would also implement recruiting campaigns for TNP as well, as there is no harm in trying to get as many members as possible signed
up and voting! (Of course, following all laws)

Awesome, now all of that has been cleared up, is their anything else you would like to say before I get drunk and start singing Khe San at the bottom of the bed?(aussies will get it)

For anyone who has any questions, remember, the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked, so shoot!

Right now, it is waaay past midnite, and I apologise for any errors in the post, but build a bridge, and get over it.

Have a good one peoples and Keep it Real!

Mesian

 

[Eluvatar]

Protective Services... sounds a bit like big brother...

Not really. They are there to help. They would be trained in the basics of conflict resolution as well as protective services, and would be able, through the MoIIA to bring cases against those discovered to be in breach of the constituion or legal code. They would also look at dealing with violations of the 15 line limit, and implementing measures to make members approachable, to be able to assist with any problem an individual might have.

Ok, so they arn't big brother, but isn't that what NPIA is for?

No, not really, NORForce would be responsible for domestic security, NPIA for all foreign operations and strategic inteligence gathering. Looking at it in relative terms, its like looking at the roles of ASIO (DPS) and ASIS (NPIA),or for those in the U.K - MI5 (DPS) to MI6 (NPIA), and for those in the US - FBI (DPS) to CIA (NPIA).

Isn't that what the MoJ is for?

What about the DoI, what does that offer that we don't already have?

Nothing really, accept organisation and the ability for case management. Now, that dosn't mean we micro-manage the person, but immigration officials would be able to help new nations grasp the basics of NS (Issues, RMB, Telegrams and the such), and then invite them to become members of the TNP forums, and hopefully, the RA.
The more friendlier we are, the more nations that will be willing to become part of us, which then will have a flow on effect in regard to regional activity, member retention, NPA recruitment, Diplomatic Corps recruitment, RPing and OOC involvement.

Life in TNP starts with the MoIIA, so it better look good!

I'm sure what you mean here, could you explain? Starting with what DoI stands for

Alrighties, How do you look at elevating the long waits for RA Membership if elected?

RA membership will be awarded to successful applicants once a week. This will let people know where they are at, and ensures that interest in the game, or the region, does not subside, as it has done in the past.

Also, I would also implement recruiting campaigns for TNP as well, as there is no harm in trying to get as many members as possible signed
up and voting! (Of course, following all laws)

Mesian

Would you be working with WG-Recruitment?

Sorry if I'm being a bit annoying with all these questions

 

[Mesian]

Isn't that what the MoJ is for?

Under Article III, Section 2, Part 3, Point B, (shit thats sounds lawyery) the MoIIA is responsible for compiling domestic intelligence and enforcing Regional guidelines, which I interpret as both the Constituion and TNP Legal Code.

This is where the seperation of powers come into play. The Ministry of Immigration and Internal Affairs (and those with the delegated authority) act as the executive. Enforcing the laws that have been formulated and voted upon by the legislature
(The RA). The MoJ role is in the Judiciary, interpreting the law after a case has been brought up by the MoIIA.

This role is clearly defined in Article III, Section 2, Part 6, Point A.

A - The Attorney General shall be the chief prosecuting officer in The Court of The North Pacific, and shall exercise those responsibilities and duties imposed on the Attorney General under this Constitution and as provided in The North Pacific Legal Code.

So, in relative terms, the MoIIA would act as the copper on the beat, and the MoJ would act as the DPP. As a result, close networking between the ministries is required to ensure that everything runs smoothly, and no problems occur from wires being crossed.

The MoIIA would bring charges to the MoJ who would then assess whether or not to go to court, or find another means of resolving the problem.

I'm sure what you mean here, could you explain? Starting with what DoI stands for

Sorry, I like abbrivations, DoI stands for the proposed Department of Immigration.

Basically, the main aim would to have 3 or 4 individuals who sole role is to help new nations get to grips with the game, and then encourage them to join the forum and become RA members. They would also do the same for new arrivals to the region, or those who express interest in citizenship on the forum.

Alot of new nations find it daughnting coming into NS, with all of these nations, and Adspam, and alot of the time, we loose new nations to the vaders, why? Because they offer the 'support services' to help those kids along. By hopefully offering a
better service, we can encourage more nations to stay in TNP, and get more out of the region then they previously thought possible.

Would you be working with WG-Recruitment?

Yes, WG-R, and as a matter of fact, all the workgroups, are a valuable resource for all candidates and future ministers, as they provide them with a forum in which new ideas have been put forward, refined, and in some cases, implememtned. I would look at asking the members of WG-Recruitment to actaully take over the management of the DoI, and implement their findings and ideas.

Questions are good, they give me a reason to stay sober,

Keep it Real

Mesian

 

[Lord Valentine]

Given your previous success in rejuvinising the NPA, do you feel your talents as a general and soldier will fully cross-over to what can often be an administrative role?

Do you believe that the creation of a second service would be detrimental to the overall security of the region? As past examples have shown, sister organisations rarely work together well, and oneupmanship amongst spies is especially high.

How will you improve the recruitment drive and would you consider headhunting from other regions?

 

[Mesian]

Given your previous success in rejuvinising the NPA, do you feel your talents as a general and soldier will fully cross-over to what can often be an administrative role?

Yes. For one to be successful in an administriative role it takes both good Time Management, Dedication, Organisational Skills and Self Discipline, all part of the core of a good NS soldier, and what I attribute to my success in many areas today.

Do you believe that the creation of a second service would be detrimental to the overall security of the region? As past examples have shown, sister organisations rarely work together well, and oneupmanship amongst spies is especially high.

No, far from it. We now are simply covering all bases. NPIA is a strategic-political intelligence gathering organisation, as it mentions in the constitution, "For the benefit of the Reginal Government and the Region". This means their role is to look outside the region for threats, and eliminate them to the best of their abilities.
The Proposed DoPS are the ones looking inside the region. The phrase "Domestic Intelligence" is more related to ciminal activity then espionage, and as a result, that is where our interests would lay, and the proposed DoPS would not even look out of region if that is where the investigation takes them. DoPS would certainly never be tasked with external operations, as that is NPIAs role.

I will also ask what type of 'oneupmanship' do you speak of? Competition between services is healthy, as it promotes activity and efficiency, and competition should be encouraged. I would hope that members of both organisations would remember who they are, what they stand for and what they are working towards, and if the need arises, work together, though, the nature of each organisations role means they will rarely cross.

I would also like to state that the DoPS would not be, and never would be spies, they are officers. Their role, rank and position would be public knowledge and would be displayed so if their assistance is required, they can be quickly identified, (unlike all NPIA members, except for the director, who remain covert). They would be there to help, as no problem is to little.

How will you improve the recruitment drive and would you consider headhunting from other regions?

TNP has treaties in place to stop recruiting between the feeders, though, a friendly invitation to "Come check out our forums' can never go astray.

In all seriousness though, our future lies with the rookies, and that is where I would focus my approach in recruiting. We would help the new kids along in every aspect of the game, making sure they feel welcome, and invite them to the forums, and to become RA members.
As a feeder, we have the unique advantage of already having influence from the start, because we are the first region they see.
Capitalising on this can only push us forward. Its time TNP took a more friendly approach to recruiting in general, and stop expecting to join simply because we are who we are.

We are in competition with userites, and we better work hard to catch up

Hope that answered your questions.

 

[Lord Valentine]

Do you believe that the creation of a second service would be detrimental to the overall security of the region? As past examples have shown, sister organisations rarely work together well, and oneupmanship amongst spies is especially high.

No, far from it. We now are simply covering all bases. NPIA is a strategic-political intelligence gathering organisation, as it mentions in the constitution, "For the benefit of the Reginal Government and the Region". This means their role is to look outside the region for threats, and eliminate them to the best of their abilities.
The Proposed DoPS are the ones looking inside the region. The phrase "Domestic Intelligence" is more related to ciminal activity then espionage, and as a result, that is where our interests would lay, and the proposed DoPS would not even look out of region if that is where the investigation takes them. DoPS would certainly never be tasked with external operations, as that is NPIAs role.

I believe both organisations would need to use espionage at times. In any case, "criminal activity" is rather ambiguous; can you expand on that term please?

I will also ask what type of 'oneupmanship' do you speak of? Competition between services is healthy, as it promotes activity and efficiency, and competition should be encouraged. I would hope that members of both organisations would remember who they are, what they stand for and what they are working towards, and if the need arises, work together, though, the nature of each organisations role means they will rarely cross.

I would also like to state that the DoPS would not be, and never would be spies, they are officers. Their role, rank and position would be public knowledge and would be displayed so if their assistance is required, they can be quickly identified, (unlike all NPIA members, except for the director, who remain covert). They would be there to help, as no problem is to little.

There will be areas where the two organisations will overlap, and without proper communication issues will occur. I've seen this countless times with two groups of people doing similar work; withholding information from another group to save ego is much more common than you think. Wouldn't it be better to split expand the NPIA to cover both roles? At least then, information sharing issues would remain minimal.

How will you improve the recruitment drive and would you consider headhunting from other regions?

TNP has treaties in place to stop recruiting between the feeders, though, a friendly invitation to "Come check out our forums' can never go astray.

In all seriousness though, our future lies with the rookies, and that is where I would focus my pproach in recruiting. We would help the new kids along in every aspect of the game, making sure they feel welcome, and invite them to the forums, and to become RA members.
As a feeder, we have the unique advantage of already having influence from the start, because we are the first region they see.
Capitalising on this can only push us forward. Its time TNP took a more friendly approach to recruiting in general, and stop expecting to join simply because we are who we are.

We are in competition with userites, and we better work hard to catch up

I quite agree with this. About time an MoIIA applicant said as much

 

[Mesian]

I believe both organisations would need to use espionage at times.

I would challenge that statement as their is a difference between investigating and espionage.

Espionage is considered the use of spies by a government to discover the military and political secrets of other nations, or in our case, regions. It is not the job of the MoIIA to 'spy' for either military or political benefit, more so, I would also like to suggest that the proposed organisation would not embriol itself in the concept of Defending and Invading, but simply, ensure that all RA members are following the constitution and the North Pacific Legal Code.

This may involve an investigation in which evidence is gathered, but certainly, there would be no spying. It must be remembered that such an organisation will have close to no external operations, or interests.

criminal activity is rather ambiguous; can you expand on that term please

Criminal Activity can be seen as any activity which breaches the Constitution, The North Pacific Legal Code, or and other regional guidlines. This also involves any activity which involves conspiring to breach it.

Though, to be even more specific, (and due to the fact I am extremley bored), the areas which would likley involve the DoPS (or require DoPS involvement);

Constitutional Law:
Article I
Article V - Through the courts
Article VI - Through the courts

TNP Legal Code:
Law 1
Law 7
Law 8
Law 13
Law 14
Law 19

Breach of the RA Oath

Any applicable precedent set

Hope that answered you question

There will be areas where the two organisations will overlap, and without proper communication issues will occur. I've seen this countless times with two groups of people doing similar work; withholding information from another group to save ego is much more common than you think. Wouldn't it be better to split expand the NPIA to cover both roles? At least then, information sharing issues would remain minimal.

I understand that their may be overlap, and I have had more then enough experience with such organisations to know this will occur, including having that occur within this region. What I will say is, that it requires effort, and as you stated, good communication, which I can offer.
"Splitting" NPIA as such would serve no real purpose, as essentially, the same oneupmanship would exist, and seperate commands would still exist, with the same communication problems.
What must be remembered is that this work is similiar but not the same.

NPIA is tasked with gathering strategic-political intelligence about other regions to support their own operations, and that of the NPA in foreign regions.

The DoPS would be focused on domestic actions, and criminal activity (as defined above) which whilst similiar, are also very different.

It would be like tasking the CIA to deal with traffic infringements, firstly, its a waste of resources, and secondly, its not what they are trained, or needed for.

 

[Gaspo]

I do believe Dalimbar is already addressing the issue of immigration; why do you feel the need to do the same type of thing he'd be doing, and in the process add even more beauracracy to an already hectic system?

 

[Mesian]

I do believe Dalimbar is already addressing the issue of immigration; why do you feel the need to do the same type of thing he'd be doing, and in the process add even more beauracracy to an already hectic system?

To be blunt, it is not the UN Delegates role to address immigration, it is the Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs. Simply because someone else is working on a project somewhere else, does not mean one should sherk that responsibility which is mandated by the constitution, which has occured recently.

Beauracracy? I think not. Putting systems in place to ensure new nations do not fall through the gaps and that they feel welcome only serves to improve the system. In my role as MoD, I contacted new nations to join the NPA, some of which stated they had been waiting more then a month for RA status, and as a result, had given up and left the region. Such waits are a disgrace, and as DMoIIA would have expected you to do something to eleviate such problems.

Also, our recent problems with the NPD had several core problems, one of which was the fact that TNP was not a welcoming place to new commers. Immigration is more then pushing numbers through, it is helping people develop, and become productive members of TNP community, neglect to do so promotes inactivity, and is criminal on that part of the ministry.

Treat his position as more then a line on your resume and get to the core of NS, the people, and people wanting to learn through experience.

 

[Lord Valentine]

I believe both organisations would need to use espionage at times.

I would challenge that statement as their is a difference between investigating and espionage.

Espionage is considered the use of spies by a government to discover the military and political secrets of other nations, or in our case, regions. It is not the job of the MoIIA to 'spy' for either military or political benefit, more so, I would also like to suggest that the proposed organisation would not embriol itself in the concept of Defending and Invading, but simply, ensure that all RA members are following the constitution and the North Pacific Legal Code.

This may involve an investigation in which evidence is gathered, but certainly, there would be no spying. It must be remembered that such an organisation will have close to no external operations, or interests.

Espionage is simply the act of spying; if there is criminal activity underway that could not be handled by normal members or ministers going through the courts then you would have to indulge in a little intelligence work to collect information correct? Even MI5 uses a little espionage.

criminal activity is rather ambiguous; can you expand on that term please

Criminal Activity can be seen as any activity which breaches the Constitution, The North Pacific Legal Code, or and other regional guidlines. This also involves any activity which involves conspiring to breach it.

Though, to be even more specific, (and due to the fact I am extremley bored), the areas which would likley involve the DoPS (or require DoPS involvement);

Constitutional Law:
Article I
Article V - Through the courts
Article VI - Through the courts

TNP Legal Code:
Law 1
Law 7
Law 8
Law 13
Law 14
Law 19

Breach of the RA Oath

Any applicable precedent set

Hope that answered you question

I still don't see why we'd need to create a whole new organisation to handle this; do you consider criminal activity to be a major issue in the North Pacific?

There will be areas where the two organisations will overlap, and without proper communication issues will occur. I've seen this countless times with two groups of people doing similar work; withholding information from another group to save ego is much more common than you think. Wouldn't it be better to split expand the NPIA to cover both roles? At least then, information sharing issues would remain minimal.

I understand that their may be overlap, and I have had more then enough experience with such organisations to know this will occur, including having that occur within this region. What I will say is, that it requires effort, and as you stated, good communication, which I can offer.
"Splitting" NPIA as such would serve no real purpose, as essentially, the same oneupmanship would exist, and seperate commands would still exist, with the same communication problems.
What must be remembered is that this work is similiar but not the same.

Whilst I don't doubt that you are a fine and able communication, that was hardly the point. What I meant to say was that the people who would be working for you, and the notoriously secretive NPIA would have to have formal channels of communication for information sharing, and I strongly believe that these will be ignored when overlap of a particularly juicy case occurs. How can you guarantee that the NPIA won't just ignore you and carry on doing their work regardless of what you're trying to do?

It would be like tasking the CIA to deal with traffic infringements, firstly, its a waste of resources, and secondly, its not what they are trained, or needed for.

Traffic infringements are usually covered by a police service, but since we're dealing with soveriegn nations any investigation would have to be covert in nature. This would be like using a beat bobby to deal with terrorism whilst MI5 sit on their backsides and play poker.

 

[Mesian]

If there is criminal activity underway that could not be handled by normal members or ministers going through the courts then you would have to indulge in a little intelligence work to collect information correct?

I would like to address to issues which rear their head in this quote. Firstly, it is not the place, nor the responsibility of normal forum members to investigate criminal activity within the region. Such activity can create problems due to the fact normal members would not have a full view of the law, or the recourse of not only the offenders, but their own actions.
Nor is it the courts responsibility to conduct the investigation during the trial. All evidence should be collected, and presented before a case even begins, and with new laws relating to time limits, such an organisation would make the trial process easier as they know what they are doing, and trained to do it well.

Now, yes, activities undertaken to achieve results can be considered intelligence work, and will agree with you their, but there is a define difference between intelligence work and espionage.

I still don't see why we'd need to create a whole new organisation to handle this; do you consider criminal activity to be a major issue in the North Pacific? 

One could also suggest that there is no imidiate military threat to TNP, so why do we need the NPA? Hell, lets just disband them and deal with the invaders when (and if) they come! Just because crime is not a prevelant issue now, does not mean it will not be in the future, or it is completley absent from TNP. The only reason one would not really no about any dealings which are occuring is because their is no-one looking for them, and bringing it to light.
The need exists, and the more people dance around the issue, the less that can get done in making this region more secure. In every society, RL or NS, every organisation, group, school, church congregation or gang, their will be people who wish to challenge the standing conventions because they can. Whether this activity is for personal benefit, or for inflicting hardship on others, we must be mindful. The proposed organisation will act as a barrier to those intent on harming the soverignty of TNP, and to simply write it off, and for the MoIIA not to worry about, and combat possible threats, is criminal neglect in itself.

How can you guarantee that the NPIA won't just ignore you and carry on doing their work regardless of what you're trying to do?

I cannot. NPIA are notourisly secret, but that is for their own saftey and operational effectivness. Even if their was a merge of both foreign and domestic duties, communication would not improve as the foreign operatives would still remain covert. Not all of NPIA know who is NPIA in the first place.
Formal Channels would be established, and be the benefit for both organisations, as each had one anothers back. NPIA cover a broad spectrum of operations, but what must be acknowledged is that most are not domestic in nature, and involve combatting invaders in the big bad userite world. NPIA has an external outlook, and has done for at least a year, and currently, I would suggest only semi-operational.
This is TNP, we are different to other regions, which then means our organisations operate differently. Do not assume the role of NPIA because you identify it as similiar with another regional organisation you know of. Refering to the point above this, the need for this organisation exists so NPIA can do their job, collecting strategic foreign intelligence, so then the NPA can do their job, which is eliminate these threats.
The MoIIA powers were granted to allow a balance of responsibilities, so 1 organisation is not over worked whilst the other cruises. The creation of this organisation would only add to the effectivness and efficiency of our border protection provisions.

Traffic infringements are usually covered by a police service, but since we're dealing with soveriegn nations any investigation would have to be covert in nature. This would be like using a beat bobby to deal with terrorism whilst MI5 sit on their
backsides and play poker. 

I will disagree with your point on the following basis. We are dealing with a region here, in which typically, 1 individual is represented by the nation in that game, and for all intents and purposes is considered a citizen. The IC soverignty of the nation does not really come into play, compared to the sovergnty of the TNP. Nor do investigations need to be covert, simple questions can resolve problems, as well as observing the actions of said players. You must make sure you do not overcomplicate the issue here, looking to much for the theory and not for the practical.

The beat bobby plays just as much in preventing terrorism as the MI5 agent does. Without him, the people don't feel safe, without him, the agent has no real eyes (or back-up) on the ground. This organisation would only be one of many bricks in the dam, but it only takes one missing brick for the water to start gushing through.

 

[Lord Valentine]

If there is criminal activity underway that could not be handled by normal members or ministers going through the courts then you would have to indulge in a little intelligence work to collect information correct?

I would like to address to issues which rear their head in this quote. Firstly, it is not the place, nor the responsibility of normal forum members to investigate criminal activity within the region. Such activity can create problems due to the fact normal members would not have a full view of the law, or the recourse of not only the offenders, but their own actions.
Nor is it the courts responsibility to conduct the investigation during the trial. All evidence should be collected, and presented before a case even begins, and with new laws relating to time limits, such an organisation would make the trial process easier as they know what they are doing, and trained to do it well.

Now, yes, activities undertaken to achieve results can be considered intelligence work, and will agree with you their, but there is a define difference between intelligence work and espionage.

The difference between intelligence and espionage is usually semantic in this game; I also think you do our membership a disservice if you suggest they are not capable of understanding the constitution and laws.

I don't disagree with you over the need for such a service; I do think however that our current system is simply not capable of handling such a system and that the burden of proof required to actually prosecute such 'criminals' would be so great as to make any trials impossible. Of course, my views on the legal system are beside the point.

One could also suggest that there is no imidiate military threat to TNP, so why do we need the NPA? Hell, lets just disband them and deal with the invaders when (and if) they come! Just because crime is not a prevelant issue now, does not mean it will not be in the future, or it is completley absent from TNP. The only reason one would not really no about any dealings which are occuring is because their is no-one looking for them, and bringing it to light.
The need exists, and the more people dance around the issue, the less that can get done in making this region more secure. In every society, RL or NS, every organisation, group, school, church congregation or gang, their will be people who wish to  challenge the standing conventions because they can. Whether this activity is for personal benefit, or for inflicting hardship on others, we must be mindful. The proposed organisation will act as a barrier to those intent on harming the soverignty of TNP, and to simply write it off, and for the MoIIA not to worry about, and combat possible threats, is criminal neglect in itself.

Minor quibble: the NPA was created as a defender organisation and their effectiveness in internal defence has never been proven. I also argue that the only thing needed to keep a region secure is an active and capable delegate.

Perhaps if you could spell out for me how exactly your police force would be effective: finding these criminals is one thing, but dealing with them is quite another.

I cannot. NPIA are notourisly secret, but that is for their own saftey and operational effectivness. Even if their was a merge of both foreign and domestic duties, communication would not improve as the foreign operatives would still remain covert. Not all of NPIA know who is NPIA in the first place.

There are certain members who know the identities of every NPIA agent, and I'd assume these would be the people dealing with communication.

This is TNP, we are different to other regions, which then means our organisations operate differently. Do not assume the role of NPIA because you identify it as similiar with another regional organisation you know of. Refering to the point above this, the need for this organisation exists so NPIA can do their job, collecting strategic foreign intelligence, so then the NPA can do their job, which is eliminate these threats.

Don't assume that I base my assumptions from other intelligence agencies. I am working from my knowledge of both the NPIA and the methods of at least two of its directors over the last three years. Perhaps it has changed, but given the fact that the region as a whole hasn't changed that much, I am lead to believe that it wouldn't have changed that much.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

Mesian, what do you think about me? More appropriately, what do you think of raider "influence" in a region which I am sure you would say is "pro-defender"? Do you foresee conflict with normal raider activities that RA members who are raiders might undertake and the normal activities of this Protective Services branch?

Also, would you require raiders to inform you of changes in their UN under punishment of law?

 

[Mesian]

@ Vitrionia

I also think you do our membership a disservice if you suggest they are not capable of understanding the constitution and laws.

I am not suggesting all members do not understand the laws of TNP, as this region is populated with many law buffs, what I am saying is that such a service would be able to organise and present evidence to the MoJ for further action, with set procedures in place to ensure that a charge would be strong, and with basis.
The core of what I was saying in that area was that it is not the responsibility, nor the place of a citizen to investigate an offence, simply to bring it to the attention of the relevant authorities, so it may be handled correctly, and by the book, without any breaches of terms and services which can occur when people are gathering information on others.

I understand on what you say in regard to the legal system, but I am a believer of working with what we have got, and even though the legal system is not ideal for such a service, there are means for it to exist.
The main aim though for such a service is deterance, and yes, there would be a vested interest in a suspect being found guilty if charged, but the mere fact such events were drawn into the public eye would normally force and individual to admit guilt, or at least cease that activity.
We would only have to trust the MoJ in the fact that he/she would be more then competent at the tasks there were asked to do.

I also argue that the only thing needed to keep a region secure is an active and capable delegate.

I agree with you 100%, or in the userite world, and active founder

Perhaps if you could spell out for me how exactly your police force would be effective: finding these criminals is one thing, but dealing with them is quite another.

As stated before, the main role of such an organisation would be deterance. Simply making actions public can influence some-one quite strongly to cease any actions, or at least become hesistant in continuing them. This serves as crime prevention measures. Dealing with them could occur in several ways, much like a RL police force would.
Officers would have the power of discression, i.e.: If someone is technically breaking the law, and either didn't know it, or really didn't mean to, a heads up is enough, for minor infranctions, cautions can be issued, and recorded for future reference.
More serious crimes, or repeat offenders would be refered to the MoJ for prosecution, now, in regard to punishment, that is a matter for the MoJ to recomend if found guilty, though, the RA Oath makes it quite clear the concequences of not obeying the constitution and the law, which is explusion, though, unless the need is dire, I personally do not believe in that course of action, as a main componenet to good order and crime prevention is correction of anti-social behaviour, as explusion really would only transfer the problem to another location.

There are certain members who know the identities of every NPIA agent, and I'd assume these would be the people dealing with communication.

As would I, but my understanding, from my invovlement in this organisation, is that those people are limited in number. If the proposed service was established, efforts would be made to contact these members, to ensure the most optimum service co-operation would exist.

I am lead to believe that it wouldn't have changed that much.

New laws and guidlines relating to NPIA have been (or are being) introduced through the RA, and I am also under the impression that NPIA is in the process of a re-structure.
The formation of such a service would only allow NPIA to structure itself accordingly to it primary mission.

@ BWII

Mesian, what do you think about me?

I have never really ever met you/talked to you, thus, could not, and will not make judgement. You would (like anybody) have both your goods and you bads, depending on the observers stance in life, and what they stand for.

What do you think of raider "influence" in a region which I am sure you would say is "pro-defender"?

Activity within NS is a balance which needs to be maintained. What I would call an alternate view (your raider "influence) keeps the game moving, and offers point of arguement which encourages activity. If we all agreed on things, there would be really no reason to sign in, would there?

Do you foresee conflict with normal raider activities that RA members who are raiders might undertake and the normal activities of this Protective Services branch?

As stated previously before, the proposed Protective Service would be domestically orientated, and as a result, deals with domestic law breaches only.

The RA oath states that unless you are serving with the NPA or NPIA, a UN nation must be maintained within TNP, and that the MoIIA must be informed of which nation it is.

If the proposed Protective Service did discover that you do not maintain a UN Nation in TNP as stated in the guidlines, or that you have supplied misleading information, appropriate action would be taken to rectify the situation in accordance with TNP law.

In which case, it would be no fault but your own for breaking a law you agreed to follow.

Both the proposed DoPS and the MoIIA would have to utlise discression when deciding whether to put forward a charge, and there are special circumstances and allowances (which I believe already exist) for those who may have problems with UN membership due to other family members or the like.

Also, would you require raiders to inform you of changes in their UN under punishment of law?

Read what the law says and tell me I have also answered this question in the above point.

Keep it Real

Mesian

 

[Dalimbar]

To be blunt, it is not the UN Delegates role to address immigration, it is the Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs. Simply because someone else is working on a project somewhere else, does not mean one should sherk that responsibility which is mandated by the constitution, which has occured recently.

Interesting... observation. With all the ten's of posts from Prime Minister Grosseschnauzer insisting that Dalimbar is in charge of a Cabinet-mandated and approved "project", not the UN Delegate mind you, I suppose I personally would be stepping on your toes and stealing your work if I did *my* job on investigating new means and ways to improve our region and society, of which only one part is dedicated to Immigration.

It is a great asset to this region that you have plenty of goals you wish to accomplish in the upcoming term, if elected. However, I feel forced to remind you on what the Regional Volunteer Task Force is up to. Investigation. That word right there tells you what my Task Force is doing. We have no interest in being there to hold your hand and make the decisions for you. We want you, and all Ministers for that matter including my other position as Delegate, to be responsible individuals and have effective and efficient means to serve this region via your Ministry. We are not a standing group like the Ministries, that is we continue until the universe explodes, but we are a group of volunteers from across our region who are interested in providing their thoughts and opinions onto subjects of governance that matter most to them. We then will make our report to the Cabinet and the Regional Assembly, and that will be that. The region can do whatever it wants after that.

Next, I don't see you sending as many telegrams as I am *required* to do to nations across our region, encouraging them to get more active. I don't see you have access to the World Factbook Entry, telling people where our forums are and our IRC channel. If you don't think the Delegate should have any role in immigration, then I should simply stop telegramming people.

 

[Mesian]

The point being made by Gaspo, which I was responding to, was that the MoIIA did not have to do anywork because the task force was doing it for him/her, and that the point I was making, as you also stated, the MoIIA, and indeed, all ministers, have to remain both accountable and responsible for the areas they are legally tied to. Not to cast aside their responsibility due to the fact that someone else was investigating it.

I have no interest in the WG holding my hand, only building upon their findings, as they have been researchng this for some time. It would be also nice to work with those members as they would have formulated their own ideas on how their recomendtions could be applied.

I do not deny the UN delegate has a major role in immigration, as delegate is the only real position in a region after founder (if it has one), it is extremley powerful. What I was saying is that handling immigration initiatives, and formulating ways to encourage RA membership and process it is one of the primary roles of the MoIIA, and as stated before, simply because someone else is working in the area, does not mean that the MoIIA neglects it, if not, there should be attempts made to work with that individual or gorup, as they can only serve to assist and lighten the burdon of management.

If I offended you in any way dalimbar, I apologise for any confusion. It is the MoIIA role to address it at cabinet level, not the WG, in the practical sense, you are a major component of a machine geared towards recruitment and activity.

Keep it Real

Mesian

 

[Dalimbar]

This is a game. I know where the boundary for offense is, and no sir, you haven't crossed it. Thank you for the clarifications, aussi.

 

[Mesian]

Your Welcome

*Places on helmet and waits for next barage

 

[Lord Valentine]

My word, you're good at this aren't you?

Thank you for taking the time to answer a few of my concerns; you've argued your case amazing well.

Good luck in the elections, Minister.

 

[Mesian]

*Tips hat

Thankyou kind sir!

 

[Former English Colony]

The point being made by Gaspo, which I was responding to, was that the MoIIA did not have to do any work because the task force was doing it for him/her, and that the point I was making, as you also stated, the MoIIA, and indeed, all ministers, have to remain both accountable and responsible for the areas they are legally tied to. Not to cast aside their responsibility due to the fact that someone else was investigating it.

....

I have a couple of problems with the above. While I agree that a Minister shouldn't completely give up control/oversight/involvement with efforts that are under their legal umbrella, I fail to see how Dalimbar's Task Force *took* the responsibility away. Or how it diminished the MoIIA in any way. I'd rather work with my fellow members of the region than demand they all come under my idea and way of thinking about recruiting.

Slight sidenote, our delegate *has* to recruit all the time to maintain their endos. Well really, they don't have to recruit for the forum. They could simply just exchange one of those polite TGs that we've seen garner enough endos to scare all of us in the past. But instead, our delegates try also to steer people here. It seems rather absurd not to combine the task of recruitment at least a little bit with the delegate. To the vast majority of people in our region that we're trying to recruit the *delegate* is who matters, not who's part of Immigration and Internal Affairs. Quite honestly, if it wouldn't make the delegate give up in despair, they'd be the best choice to do all the telegramming for the sheer authority of their name and position in our region.

 

[Mesian]

have a couple of problems with the above. While I agree that a Minister shouldn't completely give up control/oversight/involvement with efforts that are under their legal umbrella, I fail to see how Dalimbar's Task Force *took* the responsibility away. Or how it diminished the MoIIA in any way. I'd rather work with my fellow members of the region than demand they all come under my idea and way of thinking about recruiting.

I have responded to a like statement to Dalimbar already but will repeat it here. I was responding to a comment being made by Gaspo in regard to his views on the role of the MoIIA in immigration. Gaspos statement below;

I do believe Dalimbar is already addressing the issue of immigration; why do you feel the need to do the same type of thing he'd be doing,

I never said it diminished the MoIIA, nor did I say it *took* the responsibility away, your counter-part did. I rebutted to that comment, as you have so adaptly stated to what should be done, which is I would work with those members on the taskforce to attempt to implement their ideas of how immigration can be handled, under the umbrella of the department of immigration.

Furthermore, only 2 posts or so ago, I stated that the UN Delegate was extremley important in the recruitment process because 'The delegate is the only one with a real position within this region, and the MoIIA acts for immigration at cabinet level'.
I also stated, and answering your querry in advance, that practical wise, in the region, the UN delegate is a major player.

I am far from demanding that the region come under my idea and way of thinking for recruiting. As I say to the NPA, and I will say to you now, Recruiting is everybodies responsibility, from the name drop to the invitiation, a warm, friendly, stable enviroment will only attract people, not deter them, and I am all for working with others, and utlising the ideas that they express. Though, by having a department (and department head) organised approaches can also be taken to immigration, which in turn, will only increase efficiency and the ability for those invovled to act as a team.

I hope this has addressed the problems outlined, and if not, please respond and I will attempt to improve on the above clarrifications.

Keep It Real

Lest We Forget

Mesian

 

[Gaspo]

Mr. Knecht, would you please tell me more about your NationStates career outside of The North Pacific?

 

[Mesian]

Hahahahahaha, I was wondering how long it would take for you to start sniping using your newly found powers. So you want my NS life story, fine, but so much as happened i can't remember everything.

I have been in NationStates for approximatley 18 months, from the first day, a soldier. I still remember my birth region, the east pacific, and I was soon recruited by the region, Alliance of Dictators, after a few weeks, I found the region wasn't for me and began to move around, for a period of around 6 weeks I was a mercenary, acting on behalf of any region who would have me before I settled in the region Middle Europe.

Once in Middle Europe, I joined the Middle Europe Security and Intelligence Organisation, and worked as an operative of theirs for the period of around 2 months, before becoming director of that organisation, after which, a civil war occured in the region after the founder CTE's and I took over the delegacy. I found I didn't like the role, as it removed me from the trenches, and I left the region.

I moved to the RR and was recruited by a fairly small organisation then known as the IIA, Inter-regional Intelligence Agency, who were basically black op contractors. After some time with that organisation, I assisted with another region/organisation, The Military Training Academy NS, which focussed on training troops, after a month, we couldn't hold numbers, and was decided to disband the corps.

I then joined the RRA for a couple of weeks before arriving at a region which would prove to consume alot of effort, Sea Land. Upon joining Sea Land, I was asked to help establish SEADF, (Sea Land Defence Force), and lead them in several battles. Soon Sea Land became allied with New Folsom, and together formed NFAP. (New Folsom Allied Powers).

Sea Land was refounded, New Sea Land, and after some time, I was voted Prime Minister of New Sea Land. I served my term and stepped down, returning to the front-line.

After which, I was posted to assist the War effort in the region Atlantic. It was whilst in the Atlantic I defected and formed the ARA, (Atlantic Revolutionary Army) and combined with ANFL, fought against New Folsom occupation of the region, ultimatley, we lost that battle at that time, and after not being able to return to New Sea Land, or Sea Land (Sea Land was taken by NF as a barting chip to ensure NSL loyalty, as we were looking to re-found) I was once again forced to look for a new home, which soon became TNP.

I joined the NPA after being accepted as an RA member, and also assisted the government through various organisations in the region Stronghold, inflitrated the NPD when it was first created (but hit a brick wall) and undertook other tasks which I am not to speak of.

After some time in TNP, I was contacted by an old buddy from the ARA/NSL stating that NF had internally collapsed, and they wanted me to lead an attack against them to liberate Sea Land, Atlantic and several other satelite regions. I obliged, and took leave from TNP, putting aside my RA status, and use the nation you speak of, Futur Knecht, to fight NF, as I wished to return to TNP once it was over, using my original nation, Mesian.

We were successful in defeating the NFAP troops, and we moved in and attempted to re-establish the region of Sea Land, but after months of war and turmoil, the people were tired, and inactivity occured, like many other userite regions.

I then returned to TNP, Re-applied for RA status, which was granted, became an NPA member, and took control of the NPA 2 months afterwards when Nem resigned, pushing it to the current active state it is at today.

Yes, I was a mercenary, yes I have fought with raiders, and yes, due to this fact, I have gained experience in a theatre which is a dog eat dog world, in which you can trust no-one, an enviroment which I would suggest is very different from the world of the feeder.

I have fufilled your request about my career out of TNP within NationStates, and some areas are brief, because I was asked not to disclose information about some ops, and if you look harder, both the Nations Futur and Shotski were used in TNP operations which at the time, contributed greatly to regional security.

Keeping it Real

Lest We Forget

Mesian

P.S.: Thankyou Gaspo, it has been a very long time since I have sat back and tried to look at my NS career, and as a result, have encountered some very good memories.

P.S.P.S.: The nation Futur Knecht in NationStates the game is now owned by the region Sea Land, and not by me. This transfer of ownership occured when I re-joined The North Pacific to ensure no conflict of interest (even though Sea Land is defender) would exist.

 

[Gaspo]

I vehemently protest your initial comment regarding my "newly-found powers." I have known of your other identities for some time, but it was never relevant until now.

I notice you left out the bit regarding the persona of Futur Knecht. In particular, you excluded his actions on the RMB of The Pacific, and on the forums of The Pacific. Even more specifically, you neglected to mention your words and comments here and here. Would you care to explain why, even despite a direct question regarding your past, you continued to conceal these events from the people of The North Pacific?

 

[Mesian]

I vehemently protest your initial comment regarding my "newly-found powers." I have known of your other identities for some time, but it was never relevant until now.

I notice you left out the bit regarding the persona of Futur Knecht. In particular, you excluded his actions on the RMB of The Pacific, and on the forums of The Pacific. Even more specifically, you neglected to mention your words and comments here and here. Would you care to explain why, even despite a direct question regarding your past, you continued to conceal these events from the people of The North Pacific?

Legally, I cannot comment on that incident. All I will say is that it occured at a time in which the NPO had just invaded the Supreme Union, and fears about the NPOs true intentions existed.
Measures were taken to assess risks and security procedures, which were successful in their implementation.
I would be more then happy to talk to you about the incident, PM me with you email or IM and I will tell you what I can, but I will not disclose all details on this fora.

Keep it Real

Lest We Forget

Mesian

 

[Dalimbar]

To break up the tension, this is going around to all candidates, so make it good

What is your favorite colour, how does that colour make you feel, and what does this colour represent to you, with RL examples please?

 

[Lord Valentine]

Ooh... Scandal.

Now, before the mud slinging gets any worse, I have one last question for you.

Since I am undecided on my vote, what could you say to convince me to choose you: in ten words or less.

 

[Namyeknom]

While your career in NS shows a great deal of experience in the theatres of war and intelligence, how would you counter claims that is also present you as somewhat unpredictable or unreliable?

 

[Mesian]

What is your favorite colour, how does that colour make you feel, and what does this colour represent to you, with RL examples please?

Black, it makes me feel proud, as it is the colour of my favourite uniform!

Since I am undecided on my vote, what could you say to convince me to choose you: in ten words or less.

If elected, free beer for the citizens of the TNP!

While your career in NS shows a great deal of experience in the theatres of war and intelligence, how would you counter claims that is also present you as somewhat unpredictable or unreliable?

Simple, look at my record. My primary role has been as a Black Operations/ Intelligence Trooper. In such a field, it does not pay to be unpredictable and unrealiable, why? Because you are not only accountable to yourself, but to the region you are serving to deliver victory.
Black Ops require alot of planning, and to be honest, most times follow a script as after gaining much experience in black ops, you soon learn how to predict and forcast reactions to certain situations, and how to manipulate this plan.
To simply diverge off this plan because one would feel like it spells defeat in 90% of all cases.
If you are subversly questioning my loyalty to this region in such a comment, your suspisions are truly misplaced.
I have lost UN status and nations which I have cultivated for months defending this region, and nearly lost access to this game for good. When I was abroad, away from this region, I yearned for the sarcasim, politics, back-stabbing but overall the sense of community which make this region what it is.
I consider TNP my home, and since first becoming an RA member and joining the NPA, held her interests at heart.
I would hope that my term as MoD would serve as testament to my dedication, predicatability and realiability, to this region.

Though, let me prove it even more to you as MoIIA!

Keep it Real

Lest We Forget

Mesian

P.S.: Gaspo, their is a difference between concealing something, and simply failing to say it occured, at no point did I try an hide the fact I was required to undertake such behaviour, simply forgot as I never really considered it big, nor influential in my NS career, and remember, the offer still stands if you wish to find out more!

 

[Namyeknom]

No slur on your loyalty was intended, apologies if it came across like that...

Thanks for the swift response.

 

[Haor Chall]

What is your favorite colour, how does that colour make you feel, and what does this colour represent to you, with RL examples please?

Black, it makes me feel proud, as it is the colour of my favourite uniform!

Which uniform is that?

 

[Mesian]

Black Rig!

 

[Gaspo]

Legally, I cannot comment on that incident. All I will say is that it occured at a time in which the NPO had just invaded the Supreme Union, and fears about the NPOs true intentions existed.
Measures were taken to assess risks and security procedures, which were successful in their implementation.
I would be more then happy to talk to you about the incident, PM me with you email or IM and I will tell you what I can, but I will not disclose all details on this fora.

Keep it Real

Lest We Forget

Mesian

Are you saying that law here, in TNP, prevents you from discussing it? Or law elsewhere, outside of this region?

 

[Mesian]

Law within this region.

Please, I ask you to cease and desist this line of questioning, and any that further questions you have regarding this topic be sent to be by PM.

Keep it Real

Mesian

 

[Gaspo]

I wasn't aware the NPIA was in the business of stirring up trouble; I thought they only worked to protect TNP. I could have sworn, though, that their mandate limited them to uncovering threats to the region, and to spying on invaders. How that becomes what Mesian appears to have been ordered to do is beyond me, but hey, I'm not NPIA. My mistake.

 

[Mesian]

Don't ask me, I was only the shit-kicker.

It is not in the best interests of the region if this issue is continued to be discussed. I believe the issue has been resolved, any persons who wish to know more, PM me, and I will issue with the information your cleared to hear.

All I will say is that my service to this region extends to many places, and at that point in time, the ends justified the means. That is the way of the spook.

Any more questions?

Keep it Real

Mesian

 

[Eluvatar]

Could you lay down an explanation of when, in general, you believe the ends justify the means?

 

[Former English Colony]

It is not in the best interests of the region if this issue is continued to be discussed. I believe the issue has been resolved, any persons who wish to know more, PM me, and I will issue with the information your cleared to hear.

Any more questions?

Yes, I question your above statement that it's in the best interest of this region to sweep it all under the table and declare it closed. You've essentially popped out with, "oh yeah, I did this thing over in that other feeder and they had a trial, banned me, but it doesn't mean a thing."

How on earth can that be good for TNP and TP relations and goodwill?

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

Any matter concerning the Agency's activities and personnel, except in the case of a criminal prosecution, shall be discussed in confidence without reference in any public record; however, there may be disclosure of confidential information in connection with a criminal or impeachment proceeding. The Prime Minister shall be responsible to the Cabinet and the Regional Assembly for the ongoing oversight of the Agency.

Before y'all go over the deep end, I'm reminding y'all of the above. At the moment I am unable to say anything one way or the other, and until I can find a way to get information, I would ask all of you to address this topic in such a way as to not violate that quoted passage.