the constitution is failing..

Fulhead Land

Fulhead Land

TNPer
Seems to be a bit of a point here atm so lets discuss

ahem

"The Constitution is failing and needs to be seriously revised. Discuss"
 
Fulhead Land:
And why should I be prosecuted?

Or was that your faux-hilarious way of saying the Legal system needs revision?
Click to expand...
Though I've been finding myself more and more on your side of argument lately, the Constitution is not failing, it's just a document; it can't fail. Only the people it serves can fail. Also, coming from someone who has a never claimed it has been successful and has worked his entire North Pacific career trying to annihilating it; your claim that it now suddenly fails is suspect.
 
I think what FH is trying to say is that it's failing because people are leaving (some of them in utter disgust) the region and the game entirely because of the way this region is choosing to conduct itself. All of this can be linked back to the Constitution and in that way it's a’ failing.

But that's just a guess :P
 
Though I've been finding myself more and more on your side of argument lately, the Constitution is not failing, it's just a document; it can't fail. Only the people it serves can fail. Also, coming from someone who has a never claimed it has been successful and has worked his entire North Pacific career trying to annihilating it; your claim that it now suddenly fails is suspect.
Click to expand...

I've been around much longer :lol:

I think what FH is trying to say is that it's failing because people are leaving (some of them in utter disgust) the region and the game entirely because of the way this region is choosing to conduct itself. All of this can be linked back to the Constitution and in that way it's a’ failing.
Click to expand...

indeed.

The constitution is, imho, stifiling and as its servants defend it it becomes more and more oppressive leading to what Mr Wolf pointed out
 
Can you be more specific? Are there any clauses that especially stand out as needing revision? Or are you suggesting a completely new one and if so, are you going to draft one yourself?
 
This was supposed to be a spark to a "these bits are good, these are bad" discussion.. I'll add my 0.02 as I go though..

Specififc clauses? Many..a rewrite might be good but it will probably never happen and end up like the last rewrite.

I honestly think a better system is the one envisaged under the IP-Pixiedance delegacy, but again that will never happen.
 
Fulhead Land:
I honestly think a better system is the one envisaged under the IP-Pixiedance delegacy, but again that will never happen.
Click to expand...
And that wasn't stifling? Banned words, two minute trials, mass ejections. The Civil Code? Oh golly, yeah those were such free old times.
 
No, MS, that was the Moldavi-Pixiedance regime, otherwise known as the NPD.

The NPG, or IP's gov, was going to be much more open, with a RA and a cabinet, and was going to include the former opposition as a political party or "opposition government" and there would then be elections for delegate (Party leaders etc) and they would form a cabinet.
 
without the crazyly long and legalese constitution I suppose...

Its more vibrant, it can grow easier, change for the times.
 
trials that take over 6 months, the constitution allowing a group of RA members to be removed from the region without trial and occasionaly without evidence, the constitution being able to legislate against players rather than nations...thats just a few.

But as I believe the spate of departures show the system is stifling the region and removing the games fun. People are quitting
 
sorry for doubling

In 5 days, this portion of the entertainment will be 6 month old. There should be a party. . .
Click to expand...

Darkesia in refernce to my trial on feb 15th 07..the trial began on August 20th 06 ended finally on March 5th 2007.

Fair demonstration of the trial system being screwed, any more needed look at Gross' recent campaign thread where even he admits it's crap.


*


Random banning of RA members

Tresville back on s2

Almost a month ago I compiled evidence that the NPIA has been collecting on the NPG and submitted it to the Security Council for a decision. I suggested that the NPG as a group be found as a security threat to the government with the evidence i provided.

This was mulled over for weeks...and finally enough SC members were gathered to have an ample discussion on the matter (at the time I was serving as RA Speaker). A good point was brought up that specific NPG members should be declared security threats as opposed to the group as a whole. A vote was cast...and tied 2 - 2...I remained the tie breaker as RA Speaker and decided that the individual approach was more just.

With that done we voted on NPG members...on who would be deemed a security threat (members who took an oath to them)..These are the results:

Cathyy: 4 yes
Insane Power: 4 yes
Fullhead Land: 3 Yes -2 no
Shoeless Joe: 2 yes, 1 nom 1 absention but later all "nom" and "anstain" votes were changed to "yes" due to his declaration of War.
All others received no votes to deem them security threats.

I need permission from specific members before posting the NPIA evidence...I also need permission from the Attorney General to post certain evidence that I submitted to be used in Cathyy's or Ip's Trials (present or future).
Click to expand...

RA status and rights removed without trial, based on evidence and a SC report that never showed. Wasnt until weeks and weeks later when polts became PM the unlawful decision was overturned. Limitations on power? The SC being fecked? Abuse of power by elected officials? all here, all this constitution.

Oh and not that I disputre he had his reasons but Flem illegaly banned Limi too

*

Again the legal system being manipulated by the sitting government

This Legal Procedings

anyone who wants to see the full IRC log involved with that nudge me..

*

and the people leaving bit:

While reading other's goodbye threads, I've often thought "why leave? Why not stay and help change it and make it better?" I do not know the answers of others, but mine is simple. Our regional system is broken and it cannot be fixed. The first step that is neccessary for any significant change to occur is the complete and total abolition of the Constitution as we know it, and I know that this will not happen, especially while the author of that bloated and useless document is active in this region.
Click to expand...

from OPA leaving
 
Darkesia in refernce to my trial on feb 15th 07..the trial began on August 20th 06 ended finally on March 5th 2007.

Fair demonstration of the trial system being screwed, any more needed look at Gross' recent campaign thread where even he admits it's crap.
Click to expand...

Firstly quoting one particular person doesn't mean that you're right and secondly I don't think anyone in our region is denying that our Justice System needs changing and I believe some recent legislation has helped it.

Random banning of RA members

Tresville back on s2
Click to expand...

Wait....and how long ago was this?

The "random banning of RA members" no longer occurs, as indicated by you being put on trial to try and remove you from the Regional Assembly.

Oh and not that I disputre he had his reasons but Flem illegaly banned Limi too
Click to expand...

I believe it was legal, Limi also had the right to protest, which he did not.
 
To be quite honest, s2 is somewhat ancient history by now. And by bringing up examples from so long ago, you ignore how far the Constitution and the laws of TNP have come since then. Precedent gets set and old ways of doing thing come to be no more.

Furthermore, if you're going to complain about the way trials are conducted (your most valid claim, IMO), you should realize that it is often discussed and ways to improve it bandied about. Perhaps a radical rewrite of the Constitution is in order? After all, it's not like TNP has any shortage of constitutional amendments... :eyeroll:
 
umm... i no im not too smart a guy when it comes to the constitution and legal code (though i know one of them because i had to practically rewrite it for sniffles), but does this thingy mean that our constitution has expired?

Current through 26 March 2007
Click to expand...
 
Apollo-Industria:
umm... i no im not too smart a guy when it comes to the constitution and legal code (though i know one of them because i had to practically rewrite it for sniffles), but does this thingy mean that our constitution has expired?

Current through 26 March 2007
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Haha, no. I'm pretty sure that that simply marks the last time it was updated (to reflect new legislation altering it, etc.).
 
The statement "Curren through [date]" is included to show that all Constitutional amendments, and all laws (as the case may be) to that date have been incorporated in the Constitution or the Legal Code.
 
Well, if you feel strongly about it FH, I would suggest writing up some amendments to address the issues you feel most strongly about. It would provide those interested with something more substantial to discuss.

edit: rushed off before completing my thought
 
s2 may have been a while ago, but we still have the same Constitution, the same thing can happen again. Thats the point i'm making.

MO is right, a radical rewrite would be great...but is it too late? has the region gone too far now, will it have the manpower to recover even with a substantial change in direction?
 
Fulhead Land:
s2 may have been a while ago, but we still have the same Constitution, the same thing can happen again. Thats the point i'm making.

MO is right, a radical rewrite would be great...but is it too late? has the region gone too far now, will it have the manpower to recover even with a substantial change in direction?
Click to expand...
Run in the next election, I'm sure the thought of a Constitutional Convention isn't just a good idea to you.
 
Fulhead Land:
s2 may have been a while ago, but we still have the same Constitution, the same thing can happen again. Thats the point i'm making.

MO is right, a radical rewrite would be great...but is it too late? has the region gone too far now, will it have the manpower to recover even with a substantial change in direction?
Click to expand...
I think the problem is many people don't want any such major change.
 
MAybe the problem is that most of us don't share the same definition of "fun" that you and Fulhead have.
bloodthirsty-ness and authoritarianism isn't the idea of fun most of this region shares.
 
The only way to gauge if the region wants such radical change is to forward a better alternative. Go knock yourself out.
 
I also dislike any kind of invading or offensive action. It's inherently aggressive and wrong.

On the other hand when it is impossible to obey the law it becomes worthless, and we are around that point. I'm entirely sure I want the changes Fulhead Land or Blue Wolf want though.
 
Rather then opposite. I believe that serious reform of the constitution is necessary for the survival of democracy and freedom in The North Pacific.
 
I'd like to believe Gross actually likes this system and isnt just pissed that he wrote it and we want it changed :lol:


bloodthirsty-ness and authoritarianism isn't the idea of fun most of this region shares
Click to expand...

I didnt mention either, dont tar me with the brush you have in the paint can marked "convenient excuse"

So Gross your saying you think this system is a good one, that its working perfectly, that activity is doing well now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top