Posting in the RA area of the forum

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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Based on something that Poltsamaa and others have said in the formal discussion on treason:

I would like to formally suggest that posting rights in the RA area of the forum be limited to Regional Assembly members, unless they have been specifically invited to post or participate in a discussion by the speaker of the RA.

Please note, this is not targeted at any particular region, particularly not any region beginning with "L", but would be a general rule covering all outsiders.
 
Quite an effective way of shutting me up, Flem. Since I will not be able to join the RA under the current interpretation of the treason law this would bar me from posting my opinion on the thing. But whatever. It's not like anyone was listening anyway.
 
MP, under what I have proposed non-RA members would only have no POSTING rights. They would still be able to see RA threads.

@Haor. I fail to see the irony. What is it?
 
I still think having a second, formal discussion subforum would be a better approach.
Then if non-members want to comment, they'll have access to the main RA forum only yo post comments. The Preliminary Discussions subforum, and the Formal Discussion subforum would limit posting rights to RA members. And the votes would be in the Formal Discussion subforum as well.
This set up would serve the needs to the RA (limiting debate to RA members) and allow a place in the RA for orhers to comment that would not interfere with the actual debates.
That is what I am suggesting.
 
Gross, can you give good reason why non-RA members should be able to contribute to RA discussions at all? THere is already an "Ns discussions" area for more general discussion. This part of the forum is for discussion of internal business and proposed legislation.

For me having a fourth area of discussion (this one, preliminary, private and your new proposed area) would unnecessarily complicate things.
 
I can think of two:

The Freedom of Speech mentioned in the Declaration of Rights, for one thing,
Constitution Article I Declaration of Rights:
2. Each Nation's rights to free speech, free press, and the free expression of religion shall not be infringed, and shall be encouraged, by the governmental authorities of the region. Each Nation has the right to assemble, and to petition the governmental authorities of the region, including the UN Delegate, for the redress of grievances. The governmental authorities of the region shall act only in the best interests of the Region, as permitted and limited under this Constitution.
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I see such a set up as meeting the constitutional directive thatfree speech be encouraged.

For a second reason, there's discussion in the TNPU Commission about moving that forum to the University once it is established, because it would be a logical place for it, rather than in Communications, where it is placed right now.That forum seems to be more addressed to the whole of Nationtates, and not just TNP. We could have a "free speech area: instead that is unrestricted access, what I do not want to hear is that we don't permit comment on RA activity, or the public activities of the Cabinet, the Court or the other governmental entities of the region.
 
MMM. Perhaps it is because I am british, but I do not read "free speech" that way. I do not think free speech does, or should, give me the right to post absolutely anywhere and everywhere. By your argument we could never, for example, ban or suspend anyone from the forum - becuase that would infringe on their right to free speech.

As far as I am concerned it is still a no-brainer. We can debate things with outsiders elsewhere in the forum, but the RA area should be for RA members.
 
flemingovia:
As far as I am concerned it is still a no-brainer. We can debate things with outsiders elsewhere in the forum, but the RA area should be for RA members.
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Indeed!!

Freedom of Speech does not mean you can post anywhere you like!! People have plenty of places to raise issues, if they want to take part in RA debate, they can join the RA!!
 
Poltsamaa:
flemingovia:
As far as I am concerned it is still a no-brainer. We can debate things with outsiders elsewhere in the forum, but the RA area should be for RA members.
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Indeed!!

Freedom of Speech does not mean you can post anywhere you like!! People have plenty of places to raise issues, if they want to take part in RA debate, they can join the RA!!
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I agree whole-heartedly with the above pair of gentlemen.
 
The two people I would have expected to oppose this the most would have been Fulhead and Polts, mainly due to that certain region starting with "L". Since the two of them seem to be just fine with the idea, I really don't see why we couldn't do this.

Do we need a vote for this?
 
I just want to mention, while I can, that my only concern is whether those of us with nations in regions that start with "L" would be ALLOWED to join the RA to participate in these debates. Or are we just shut out?
 
flemingovia:
As far as I am concerned it is still a no-brainer. We can debate things with outsiders elsewhere in the forum, but the RA area should be for RA members.
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Exactly. Quite frankly, I'm rather shocked that others could post here in the first place. Somewhat defeats the purpose of joining the RA. If you want your voice heard and want a tangible say in our policies, join. If not, that's what other parts of the forum are for. Polts and Flem are exactly right.

@ Romanar - Why not, oh, I dunno, apply to join the RA and find out? Just a thought. Perhaps you should try to join before you cry wolf?
 
Romanar:
I just want to mention, while I can, that my only concern is whether those of us with nations in regions that start with "L" would be ALLOWED to join the RA to participate in these debates. Or are we just shut out?
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Romanar, as a citizen of Canada (in RL), I have no say over how the government of the United States is run, nor should I. I may have an opinion and I guess I can write a letter to the New York Times or something if I want to share it, but ultimately it is for the people of the United States to comment on how their country is run.

Similarly, I resent non-Canadians (regardless of their political stripe) telling us how our country should be run. We can make those decisions for ourselves.

My view here is identical. If a nation is not qualified to be (or interested in being) a member of the RA, why should they have any input on its discussions and processes?
 
I've been thinking about this alot and thought I'd make a good suggestion.

I agree that posting rights in the RA forum should be restricted to RA members.

As a compromise to quell any complaints by outsiders, we might consider having a "Lobby" section in which anyone can post, guest or non RA, in which they can act as 'lobbyists' per se.

Good idea?
 
Blackshear:
Similarly, I resent non-Canadians (regardless of their political stripe) telling us how our country should be run. We can make those decisions for ourselves.
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Reminds me of the European Union. <_<


But I'm not sure whether a lobby is neccessary? I mean only one or two nations post here anyway who don't belong to the RA so would it really be used that much?
 
We already have a Nationstates Discussion subforum, shit can just go there. Works well enough, I'd say.
 
Romanar:
I just want to mention, while I can, that my only concern is whether those of us with nations in regions that start with "L" would be ALLOWED to join the RA to participate in these debates. Or are we just shut out?
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Apply now, I see no legal reason why your application would be denied!!

Hersfold:
The two people I would have expected to oppose this the most would have been Fulhead and Polts, mainly due to that certain region starting with "L". Since the two of them seem to be just fine with the idea, I really don't see why we couldn't do this.
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I don't see this as an issue concerning The Lexicon or any other region for that matter!! It is a simple case of having RA discussions restricted to RA members as far as posting rights are concerned!! I don't really care what region the outsiders are from, they should not being having a say in the internal mechanics of our region unless they register as a citizen!!

In fact, I've long called for the RA to be the domain of RA members only!! Except when I suggested it it was howled down as some form of tyranny!!

And just for the record, I have never had and still do not have a nation in The Lexicon!! Not that there is anything wrong with the region, I'm just putting an end to the assumptions people make!! ;)
 
I am in fact surprised that this wasn't already the case.

Ever since my illegal removal from the RA, I have not posted here assuming that as a non-member I couldn't.
 
My only worry about the proposed change is that new nations might be put off by it. I have an interest in the political aspects of the region, and when I came here I was able to jump right in and post my opinion without having to wait for someone to accept me. I liked the feeling I had, that this was a free and open society, one which was very easy to be a part of.
 
Great Bights Mum:
My only worry about the proposed change is that new nations might be put off by it. I have an interest in the political aspects of the region, and when I came here I was able to jump right in and post my opinion without having to wait for someone to accept me. I liked the feeling I had, that this was a free and open society, one which was very easy to be a part of.
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GBM, I share your concern, which is why I'd like to see somewhere in the RA for others to be able to comment.
The NS Discussion subforum really doesn't fit, and as I mentioned previously, the TNPU Commission has discussed transferring it to TNPU because, first, the feeling there is that discussion of NS issues would work better in a academic environment, and second, frankly, the current locatiion of that subforum doesn't make sense being in the Ministry of Communications.

Romanoffia:
As a compromise to quell any complaints by outsiders, we might consider having a "Lobby" section in which anyone can post, guest or non RA, in which they can act as 'lobbyists' per se.
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I've already urged something similar, and was told that its too much free speech for TNP.

Go figure. :headbang:
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Romanoffia:
As a compromise to quell any complaints by outsiders, we might consider having a "Lobby" section in which anyone can post, guest or non RA, in which they can act as 'lobbyists' per se.
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I've already urged something similar, and was told that its too much free speech for TNP.

Go figure. :headbang:
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Nobody said anything of the sort!! What some people said was that freedom of speech does not mean people have the freedom to post wherever they want!! I still fail to see how restricting posting rights in the RA to actual members of the RA is limiting anyone's ability to contribute!!

In most countries, if you want to vote you need to register to vote!! If you want to contribute to a club or organisation then you need to join!! The regional assembly is akin to a senate in this region excepting of course that there is no need to be elected, you just have to sign on!!

All the whining about people not wanting to be part of it because its too much effort to register doesn't really wash with me becasue if they want to be involved in the decision making process it is a small requirement to take an oath before takign part!!
 
flemingovia:
@Haor. I fail to see the irony. What is it?
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Because I remember the response before when this was brought up by someone else...

Anyways, I supported this then and I still support it now. It isn't a question of freedom of speech because non-RA members have plenty of other areas where they can discuss things (the NS discussion area, all of the Ministry offices, etc).
 
Draft something up, refine the language and I can put it up to a vote by tonight if necessary. It'll be either a request for to the admin or RA procedure, frankly I'd prefer it to be procedure. If results continue to be mixed then I'll wait till the 28th.
 
Uh, as far as drafting something up, how about...

The right to post in the Regional Assembly subforum, and all subforums contained therein, is restricted to Regional Assembly members only.
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That oughta do it. It's not like this is a huge deal, I don't see why we need a huge overly complex piece of legislation or anything.
 
I would just add "unless non-RA members are specifically invited to post by the speaker of the RA."

There may be occasions when we wish to hear from someone outside the RA. Rather like when whatshisname the Prime minister of Britain addressed the American government thingy.
 
Fair enough. New version:

The right to post in the Regional Assembly subforum, and all subforums contained therein, is restricted to Regional Assembly members only, unless a non-RA member is specifically invited to post by the Speaker of the Regional Assembly.
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There may be occasions when we wish to hear from someone outside the RA. Rather like when whatshisname the Prime minister of Britain addressed the American government thingy.
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:eyebrow:

Ok, Flem, turn the monitor off...yes thats right...Now go and sit in front of the TV and watch the news....well done


:yes: ;)
 
flemingovia:
I would just add "unless non-RA members are specifically invited to post by the speaker of the RA."

There may be occasions when we wish to hear from someone outside the RA. Rather like when whatshisname the Prime minister of Britain addressed the American government thingy.
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I'd have to agree with restricting posts in the RA forum to RA members with the provisos mentioned (invitation by the Speaker, etc.)


Rather like when whatshisname the Prime minister of Britain addressed the American government thingy.
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:rofl:
 
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