TNP vs. Fulhead Discussion

Blue Wolf II:
Not true, I'm always IC, but then again, I'm insane :w00t:
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It could then be said, perhaps more accurately, that you are always OOC!! ;)

Always being IC would appear to be impossible as always being IC would mean your IC was the same as your OOC which means you are always OOC rather than IC!!
 
This line of reasoning is ridiculous. Regions don't spring out of the empty air in NS, they are created in character. Literally, you have to log into your nation, thus getting into character, and then create the region. You create the region IN GAME, thus you are IN CHARACTER. You can't say that creating regions is OOC, because that would clearly mean that everything that stems from creating the region (re: FL's actions and this TRIAL) are all OOC, and your entire defense falls because there exists no IC, and all the crimes exist in one realm. In other words, saying that regions are created OOC by IC characters means that all of Fulhead Land's actions were OOC AND that the entire court system and all punishments can be considered OOC too, meaning that there can't be a claim of "That was OOC, but this was IC" by the defense.
 
Southwest Asia:
This line of reasoning is ridiculous. Regions don't spring out of the empty air in NS, they are created in character. Literally, you have to log into your nation, thus getting into character, and then create the region. You create the region IN GAME, thus you are IN CHARACTER. You can't say that creating regions is OOC, because that would clearly mean that everything that stems from creating the region (re: FL's actions and this TRIAL) are all OOC, and your entire defense falls because there exists no IC, and all the crimes exist in one realm. In other words, saying that regions are created OOC by IC characters means that all of Fulhead Land's actions were OOC AND that the entire court system and all punishments can be considered OOC too, meaning that there can't be a claim of "That was OOC, but this was IC" by the defense.
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Actually, my reasoning is quite sound!! Players create regions and nations!! Players are OOC as a player can play multiple characters if they so choose!! Logging into your nation does not imply you are in character, logging into your nation is a player accessing the game!! IC tends to occur mostly on off-site forums and on the RMB!! There is no real character to play in game with respect to your nation other than answer issues and interact with the UN!!

I could talk with friends over a beer and decide, with them, to create a new region!! The decision to create the new region was OOC discussion with friends!! It has no bearing on my TNP nation, Poltsamaa, in any way and any mention of my new region or its reason for existance is entirely OOC even if I post about using my forum account here!!
 
There is no real character to play in game with respect to your nation other than answer issues and interact with the UN!!
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So there is no character to play except for those things, so in effect there are IC activities a player participates in when they log in. Maybe be a little more concise, you're being confusing, though that may be your intention.

You also seem to be saying that a player creates a nation (and regions) and they are ultimately responsible for the actions of their in character personas. I thought that was kinda what you were going against? :huh:
 
NO, I said the only IN-GAME IN-CHARACTER activities your nation can undertake are answering of issues and dealing with the UN!! Extraneous to the game of NationStates are the forums which allow more in-depth IC activities to take place!!

It is not confusing at all!!

I am saying players create nations and regions, then roleplay with the nation and the region!!

The internal mechanics of a region with respect to government and all that that entails are IC activities extraneous to the game of NationStates!! The Constitution on TNP refers to member nations as has been confirmed in the current trial, therefore the nations of TNP can only be answerable to IC activities undertaken by their TNP member nation!!

This is the crux of the case!! Therefore it must be proven by the prosecution that Fulhead Land, TNP member nation, committed treason!! However, they continue to try and pin the activities of a player to the laws of TNP which is outside the scope of the Constitution!!

Creating nations and regions is done by players and is therefore OOC!! Therefore discussion of creation of regions and nations is OOC!!
 
No-one in particular, or everyone in particular. It was a general statement that simply meant that if you cannot believe there is a difference between IC and OOC actions you probably have a deficincy in one area. Why, thinking that applies to you?
 
Ok, after reading that whole stupid thread, here are my thoughts:

I can see how one could see this as being IC with one major flaw, the game, off-site forums and SWA's comment about coming back to NS all indicate an OOC discussion of IC happenings. So although the topic is IC stuff, all of the commentary is OOC. Because IC, this isn't a game, NS means nothing off-site forums are absurd.

You can sense the bitterness in Cath, IP and FL as well as the retaliation of Flem and SWA. However, to take this as FL, TNP Member saying this as opposed to the player behind the forum login is ridiculous. FL refers to forum members by their forum names so they can be identified by those who are reading the thread.

In short, In Character is just that....what is done by a representative of that nation within the world created as if this were real. Discussing "the game" from an over-arching view cannot logically be called In Character because IC, there is no concept of this as a game. This is life, IC. Everybody in that thread references the game and region mechanics in a 3rd party view which IC shouldn't be present. The fact that the Prosecution plays so heavily in this thread could even be construed as extreme bias but in any case, for an IC trial, this thread cannot be counted as evidence or you turn this whole thing into a farce.
 
The whole thing is already a farce!! What you must realise is that this is not a trial to determine a fair and just outcome, but a means to an ends to remove Fulhead as they have been trying to do (and were briefly successful in doing under the Constitution-ignoring reign of Prime Minister Tresville) for the best part of 2 years!! This trial will not end until they get the verdict they want!! They being the government, the judiciary (I'm outside if the judiciary for this trial!!) and various external groups who have strong influence here through dual-citizenship!! That is quite ironic in itself!!

This is a witch hunt, the verdict is already in, they just have to connect some dots to justify it to those who may be concerned if they just call it guilty and kick him out now!! See how the government floods this discussion with rhetoric knowing that the defense cannot reply (until the judge spilled the beans and through the gag order out the window!!) in order to influence the jury?! Everything about this trial is a farce!!

They try to convict using OOC in an IC trial!! They are muddying the water in an attempt to get their result!! The implications of this are huge if they succeed!!
 
Whilst I may agree on some points, I disagree with the way you draw the IC/OOC lines (not, it might be said, how you have drawn them in the past). Having said that, in it is logical the defence would want to draw the IC/OOC lines like that, so I'm not complaining.
 
In 5 days, this portion of the entertainment will be 6 month old. There should be a party. . .

And an award. There should be a party and an award.
 
It has gone further into farce with the judge too lazy to be bothered with the case anymore and delivering moronic statements because it is convenient to do so!!

I can't be bothered with this crap anymore!! I'm going on holiday soon and shan't be returning to NS!!

I'm sure you can appoint another defence counsel who will roll over and play dead so you can get the verdict you are after!! I'm sorry that I delayed the inevitible by actually defending my client under the law when the law means nothing compared to the witch hunt mentality of this region!! Better still, vote Tresville in as PM or Delegate and he can cleanse the region like he did last time!! ;) This time, I won;t be here to see it, thankfully.

Sorry Fulhead, I did say I'd defend you to the best of my abilities but when the prosecution and the judiciary are the same entity it makes a fair trial and fair and legal verdict impossible!! This case is a sham!! Best of luck FL, whatever happens rest easy that you did not break any laws in this region!! It is just a pity the laws are only a charade!!

With that I resign all office in TNP and NationStates!!

Tschüß
 
Sexy eszett and umlaut use.

Poltsamaa:
Carry on!! I won't bother putting much effort into this crap anymore!! The court system shows precisely why this region is fucked!!
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We're fucked because we've never gotten much use out of a ridiculously over-formalized court system that's supposed to police a message board?


Sorry to see you go, Tigger. I'll miss ya around.
 
Upper Kirby:
We're fucked because we've never gotten much use out of a ridiculously over-formalized court system that's supposed to police a message board?
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Yes, 6 months in and we are still at the second witness of prosecution first round questioning!! This trial will outlive us all!!

Sorry to see you go, Tigger. I'll miss ya around.
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:lol:

What will you do without my evil ploy to irritate you into losing focus on your arguments?! Someone needs to step up and fill this void!!
 
You can't quit before the party! I was going to make chocolate cake.

Don't be a complete stranger, Polts. We will miss you. :hug: :kiss:
 
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