Term Limits, again...

Haor Chall

Haor Chall

The Power of the Dark Side
TNP Nation
Haor Chall
I think from last time that most people were in favour of simplifying the term limits, from where they stand. Most agree that term limits of some sort should remain in place, and the previous ammendment in this area failed because it was a little too radical.

As such my suggestions are; we move to either a maximum of 2 consecutive terms or a maximum of 2 out of every 3. This isn't exactly a great change in the actual term limits themselves (I think) but would express the way they work much more simply.

Thoughts, comments?
 
flemingovia:
I would prefer the simplest of all: "Players may not hold more than two cabinet level positions consecutively."
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Bingo!

Everyone notice it says "Players." The duality issue may be one for the courts, but if we word the revision like this, Flem's evil twin puppet can't run for PM once he hits the two term limit.
 
flemingovia:
I would prefer the simplest of all: "Players may not hold more than two cabinet level positions consecutively."
Click to expand...
I had a big argument and revision typed out until I realized that I read Flem's proposal wrongly. Anyways. I would be in favor of Flem's proposal.

Btw, how do Deputy Ministers work with term limits? *too lazy to pull up the Constitution again*
 
I don't believe that is what M.O. was referring to.

Term Limits only apply to a deputy if they serve more than half of an elected term of a Minister.

And, given a couple of instances where players who were elected and then resigned or refused office, we need to clarify whether it is the election or the assumption of office by the elected player that triggers term limits.

(And at least we don't have to hear a claim of not enough people to be candidates, as every office in the Cabinet had at least two candidates this last time.)
 
Grosseschnauzer:
I don't believe that is what M.O. was referring to.

Term Limits only apply to deputy if they end of serve more than half of an elected term of a Minister.
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Thanks. I know that I'm straying into the convoluted world of hypotheticals, but does that mean that a person cannot serve as a Deputy Minister directly after two consecutive terms as a cabinet minister? Or can they serve as Deputy Minister, but if the Minister leaves, they cannot take office?

Sorry for the nitpickiness.
 
Nations who have served two terms as Ministers can be Deputies. I don't know if the situation has ever arisen when a Deputy in that position has to step up.... or maybe we just never paid attention. <_<
 
I don't think that has ever happened.

I like the two consecutive terms limit, which is essentially two terms in a given year's time.

I think that if one is elected and resigns at all, that should count as a full term.

A deputy minister should be considered to have served a term if they served at least 50% + one day of term that they move into.

The way to solve the deputy issue is that you permit someone to serve as a deputy regardless of their term-limit status, but if they minister resigns, etc., they should only function as minister until such time as the minister can be replaced by election or appointment by the cabinet. And - if the term they would be serving is less than 50% of a term, then they would be eligible to serve as minister (since less than 1/2 term is not considered a term).

Just a thought.
 
In response to the later question posed by M.O., the section of Article III on deputy ministers specifies that deputies must meet the same requirements as the minister thAT appoints them to office.

Whether a minister could appoint a term-limited person as deputy may be doubtful because the person could not constitutionally suceed to the minister's post during the term.
 
I tend to agree wich Chall. Term limits are a good idea, but I think your duggestions have merit. Hear Hear!

Ik
 
While I understand the 1 of every 2 terms (2 terms max / 4 terms per year) idea quite well I have an issue of the same people being put up for candidacy in a style of passing the power back and forth.

I'd much rather a 2 out of every 3 terms. It would ensure that at least 1 election will have some serious contenders for all positions.
 
Sooo....

Whilst we're here is there any chance we could clear up some of the language in this? What does 1) even mean?? Isn't it just the same as 5)?


Article III

Section 3: Term Limitations.

1) No person, through one or more Nations, who has acted in any Cabinet-level position as Delegate, as Prime Minister, or as a particular Cabinet Minister, for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected, shall be subsequently elected to that elected office of the Cabinet more than once, pursuant to this section.
2) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two consecutive terms.
3) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two terms within a one year period.
4) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than four terms (consecutive or otherwise) over a two year period.
5) For purposes of this section, service by a person, through one or more Nations, in a Cabinet-level position for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected or appointed, shall be treated as a complete term in that office.
6) For purposes of this Constitution, "Cabinet-level position" is construed to refer to the UN Delegate for the Region, any UN Vice Delegate who has acted as UN Delegate for the Region for more than half of an elected term of office, the Prime Minister, any Cabinet Minister of the Regional Government, any deputy Cabinet Minister who has acted as a Minister for more than half of an elected term of office, or the Attorney General.
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I'm thinking that there's a typo in the first paragraph, as it currently encompasses the Del, PM, and deputy ministers that rise to the top chair but not elected ministers themselves. :blink:

So with Flem's basic suggestion, it's:

Iteration of changes:
Article III

Section 3: Term Limitations.

1) No person, through one or more Nations, who has acted in any Cabinet-level position as Delegate, as Prime Minister, or as a particular Cabinet Minister, for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected, shall be subsequently elected to that elected office of the Cabinet more than once, pursuant to this section.
2)1) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two consecutive terms.
3) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two terms within a one year period.
4) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than four terms (consecutive or otherwise) over a two year period.
5)2) For purposes of this section, service by a person, through one or more Nations, in a Cabinet-level position for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected or appointed, shall be treated as a complete term in that office.
6)3) For purposes of this Constitution, "Cabinet-level position" is construed to refer to the UN Delegate for the Region, any UN Vice Delegate who has acted as UN Delegate for the Region for more than half of an elected term of office, the Prime Minister, any Cabinet Minister of the Regional Government, any deputy Cabinet Minister who has acted as a Minister for more than half of an elected term of office, or the Attorney General.
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EDIT: BBcode is hard. :(
 
I would much prefer that the 2 terms out of four limitation be kept.

Having only a limit against more than two consecutive terms permits a player to hold three terms within a year, or four terms out of five consecutive terms, and that is too much.
 
flemingovia:
I would prefer the simplest of all: "Players may not hold more than two cabinet level positions consecutively."
Click to expand...
I like this. Well said.


The revision is well written for the subject at hand imho.

I think we also need to address the issue of what a term is, length, etc., so as to best serve the region.

While there are plenty of competant prior civil servants here, for those who have not held office in any region let alone TNP, sometimes the terms aren't long enough for them to learn their office and act with due diligence in the execution thereof.
 
Flemingovia:
(flemingovia @ Aug 29 2006, 06:09 PM)
I would prefer the simplest of all: "Players may not hold more than two cabinet level positions consecutively."
Click to expand...


This statement is fundamentally flawed. It prohibits a player from holding two Cabinet-level positions separately -- it does not limit the number of consecutive terms in the same office.
 
Lawl, semantics. But I see it, now, Gross.

Howsaboot "Players may not be a member of Cabinet for more than two consecutive terms"?
 
Soooo... Like this:

Iteration of changes:
Article III

Section 3: Term Limitations.

1) No person, through one or more Nations, who has acted in any Cabinet-level position as Delegate, as Prime Minister, or as a particular Cabinet Minister, for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected, shall be subsequently elected to that elected office of the Cabinet more than once, pursuant to this section.
2)1) No person, through one or more Nations, may be a member of the Cabinet, in any position, for more than two consecutive terms.
3) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two terms within a one year period.
4) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than four terms (consecutive or otherwise) over a two year period.
5)2) For purposes of this section, service by a person, through one or more Nations, in a Cabinet-level position for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected or appointed, shall be treated as a complete term in that office.
6)3) For purposes of this Constitution, "Cabinet-level position" is construed to refer to the UN Delegate for the Region, any UN Vice Delegate who has acted as UN Delegate for the Region for more than half of an elected term of office, the Prime Minister, any Cabinet Minister of the Regional Government, any deputy Cabinet Minister who has acted as a Minister for more than half of an elected term of office, or the Attorney General.
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Two consecutive terms.

Just means you have to take at least one term off relaxing at the country club before you can run again.
 
I'll move this FD in a heartbeat once someone explains to me what makes this different from what we already have. I don't know if I've been exceptionally slow lately but does this bar someone who has served two terms back to back from running again in say a year? Does this just open the possibility for someone running for up to three terms, non consecutively, in one year?
 
mr_sniffles:
I'll move this FD in a heartbeat once someone explains to me what makes this different from what we already have. I don't know if I've been exceptionally slow lately but does this bar someone who has served two terms back to back from running again in say a year? Does this just open the possibility for someone running for up to three terms, non consecutively, in one year?
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As Gross said. It's not designed to be a major change to the way things work- its more a simplification of the language in the constitution.
 
It's only a major change if you were elected in Feb., served a second term in May, sat out this term, and wanted to run in November. Without this change you couldn't; with it you can.
 
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