FD - RA Membership Amendment

mr_sniffles

mr_sniffles

TNPer
Two strikingly similar proposals are on the table, though created with different objectives in mind I think maybe the two can be reconciled. Yes, I do realize that AlHoma's was a procedure motion but I find denying what is essentially citizenship, should be codified into law.

Al Homa's Idea:
1. That all regional assembly members must vote in at least 1 out of every 4 pieces of legislation

2. That all regional assembly members must be available within 72 hours for jury duty from the summons given by the court.

3. Exemptions may be given at the discretion of the Speaker of the RA or the Presiding officer of the court for publicised notices of absense not to exceed more than one half of the election term

4. Any regional assembly member that fails to meet either of these requirements will be stripped of membership untill such time that the member applies again.
Click to expand...

Limitless Events:
6) At any time, should sufficient evidence be brought to the Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs that proves that a Regional Assembly Member fails to meet the requirements for membership due to the deletion of a Nation from NationStates through inactivity or NationStates Moderator intervention, or their TNP nation used in the oath no longer resides in TNP, that Nation's name may be purged from the list of members. Nations may also be removed from the list of members if their forum account has been inactive for a period longer than one month. Should a Nation, whose membership has been purged, later be found to have been resurrected in NationStates, that the Nation become a member of the Region once again or their account becomes active again, they may re-apply for voting rights according to the procedures in the preceding clauses of this Section. The act of expulsion or banning of a Nation from the Region prior to a trial or a referendum does not affect its status as a member until and unless a final judgment is entered in a judicial proceeding or a final certification is entered in a referendum, whichever is applicable to the given situation. The North Pacific Legal Code may provide authority to the Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs for the periodic purging of the names of member who are no longer eligible to vote in the Region, upon due notice because they no longer meet the requirements of this Section.
Click to expand...

Some language to cover or improve the 72 hour Jury Duty seems to be the consensus, perhaps 72 hours to respond with a yes or no on whether they want jury duty?
 
1. That all regional assembly members must vote in at least 1 out of every 4 pieces of legislation
Click to expand...

Does that mean they have to keep up with the voting like that throughout their entire tenure? Or does that mean that one cannot miss four votes in a row?
 
Monte Ozarka:
1. That all regional assembly members must vote in at least 1 out of every 4 pieces of legislation
Click to expand...

Does that mean they have to keep up with the voting like that throughout their entire tenure? Or does that mean that one cannot miss four votes in a row?
Click to expand...
Good question, I always thought AlHoma meant 25% but it'd always be nice to hear him to tell it.

Or some support from any of those Activity clause supporters (polty?)
 
I still don't like the bit requiring nations to vote. Democracy is a choice, which includes the choice not to vote.
 
What Hersfold said.

I do not like activity clauses for the RA. I still think we need to look at procedures to assure communications with all RA members, and enforcement of existing law concerning the duty of the MIIA to verify the ongoing eligibility of RA members.
 
I think it'd be better to combine them both but if that's the wish then I'd start a new thread soon time, but both really concentrate on what limits, duties, and hoops must be in place for people to be citizens. Because for some, just being from the North Pacific for a while isn't enough.
 
I will simply re-iterate my belief that activity requirements placed on citizenship have no place in a feeder region. They are exclusionary and contrary to the spirit of a free and open democracy.
 
before this goes to vote I just want to remind everyone of the key word in my proposal may. The minister isn't required to remove that member immediately just given the powers to do so if they fell that person may not come back
 
Great Bights Mum has stated my position, as well. While I can see a reason for inactivity provisions with respect to elected offices of the region, that rationale falls apart when it is applied to the membership of the Regional Assembly.
 
Great Bights Mum:
I will simply re-iterate my belief that activity requirements placed on citizenship have no place in a feeder region. They are exclusionary and contrary to the spirit of a free and open democracy.
Click to expand...
Ditto.

ALthough perhaps a clause for a quorum call in the event too many RA members are absent from the assembly?
 
Fergi the Great:
Great Bights Mum:
I will simply re-iterate my belief that activity requirements placed on citizenship have no place in a feeder region. They are exclusionary and contrary to the spirit of a free and open democracy.
Click to expand...
Ditto.

ALthough perhaps a clause for a quorum call in the event too many RA members are absent from the assembly?
Click to expand...
We already have it, all RA votes must have at least 20 members voting to pass.

The issue for AH is that since being a member of the RA constitutes as citizenship, and only citizens can be called as jurors, it's a bit of a headache for judges and Justice ministers to find jurors thereby slowing down the trial process because only 30% of RA members can be seen on-demand day after day, week after week.
 
Perhaps a volunteer basis then? Or a rotation? Then the members know when they should be active or the justices on whom to put leverage per se.
 
Limitless Events:
before this goes to vote I just want to remind everyone of the key word in my proposal may. The minister isn't required to remove that member immediately just given the powers to do so if they fell that person may not come back
Click to expand...
I don't believe the minister should have the power to cross someone off the list because they "feel" the nation isn't coming back. It isn't so difficult to send the nation a TM and ask them if they are still interested in being a member. Maybe let them know there will be a vote upcoming on activity requirements.
 
Right, sending a PM is a great way to get their attention even if they're long distanced from the game itself. Also, if they didn't voluntarily separate, how do you think they'd feel to be forcibly excluded for reasons beyond their control? We all like to feel remembered and appreciated, and even something as mundane as a PM asking for their vote may be the thing that brings them back into full friendship and fellowship.
 
Just to clarify, I suggested a TM since folks who have been away from the forum are presumably logging on to their nation. I know a PM triggers an e-mail alert, but mine always end up in Bulk Mail, along with the opportunities to resize various body parts.

Edit: can't spell.
 
LOL

Well, responsible leaders would exhaust each of the sundry methods of contact as part of execution of their stewardship imho.

And yes, it's time for my daily Viagra spam message...
 
Great Bights Mum:
Just to clarify, I suggested a TM since folks who have been away from the forum are presumably logging on to their nation. I know a PM triggers an e-mail alert, but mine always end up in Bulk Mail, along with the opportunities to resize various body parts.

Edit: can't spell.
Click to expand...
It's ultra-annoying when they inundate you with offers to enlarge part of the body you don't have (I am a male currently being blasted with boob job offers.) And to think, I'm starting to think my breasts are quite flat...
 
Indeed, I have gotten way to many offers to resize myself. I wonder if people actually every buy the stuff they et in junk email... They must or else the junk companies would just stop sending them. Wow some people are real stupid...
 
Not to change the subject, but... I predicted way back when the RA was just an idea, that legislation would come along to chip, chip, chip at the freedoms we now enjoy.

Oh yes, this one isn't asking too much. And the next one will just take another of the tiniest bits away, as will the next, and so on. Before long, the RA is as well-entrenched as certain Senates which shall go unnamed. Not in my TNP!

Imagine if you had to check in to some government office every 30 days in order to retain your right to vote. That would be unthinkable! In the US, the ACLU would be immediately filing suit. In NS, it sends a message to nations that unless they play a certain way or live up to a certain standard, we can kick them out of our club. Is that how we want to be perceived?

I don't know *sigh.* Maybe we do need to come together and collectively articulate a vision for TNP. What are our core values? What are those principles upon which we have built this society? I truly believed that tolerance and inclusiveness were key to the spirit of TNP. But I could be wrong.

Edit: Awkward transition.
 
I think you bring up a good point GBM (as always) where do we draw the line between freedom and feasability? When will we simply think democracy is nice but it's too much of a hassle?
 
What you say is true, GBM, but let's flesh out your analogy a bit further.

Your example of voting in the US is based on a representative republic--an indirect democracy where the general populace votes rarely and typically only for people to represent them. The RA is (for all intents and purposes) a direct democracy, where every Assembly member has a direct vote in the decisions regarding individual issues.

This setup makes the RA far more akin to the House or Senate instead of the general populace. Just as Representatives and Senators have the obligation to do what is in the best interests of the nation and their constituency, so does the RA in its defense and protection of TNP. The RA should be held to a slightly higher standard than the "average" nation.

If we were going to compare the RA to the House/Senate...

US Constitution Art. I Sect. 5:
Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide.

Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member.
Click to expand...
(emphasis mine)

I don't think it too much an affront against freedom and democracy to require some semblance of an activity requirement. It's not like we're taking away their right to vote forever and ever. We have to renew registrations all the time for our RL vehicles, property, etc. Surely it is not too much to ask to have a passive "renewal" of RA membership?

And let's not even get into the duality/citizenship/security debate.
 
Monte Ozarka:
The RA should be held to a slightly higher standard than the "average" nation.
Click to expand...
Thank you for illustrating what is, disturbingly, a fundamental difference in philosophies. In my view, we are all "average" nations. When we start to create standards to which nations must adhere, we begin to create a separation between RA members and "average" nations.

While this proposal may be only a tiny step, it is a step in the wrong direction. We should never see ourselves, by virtue of our RA membership, as somehow "above average." The more exclusive we become, the less inclusive we will find ourselves.
 
The regional assembly is not a representative body chosen by voters to exercise legislative powers on their behalf; rather they are the body politic, acting collectively on their own behalf.

If there is to be an analogy, the regional assembly would be comparable to a town meeting of all of the voters of a town (a common practice in several of the real life states of the New England region of the United States) or to the real life United Nations General Assembly, which is cpmprised of virtually every real life nation in the world.

This might help explain why activity reqirements are not appropriate, in my view, for the regional assembly.
 
I side with Grosseschnauzer and GBM here. I voted yes for the ammendment reguarding the vanishing of the TNP nation. ALthough I am a heavy proponent of the idea that everyone should be able to be active, if you dont even have a nation in the region, how can you have the right to vote on things. However the other ammendment is making it way to difficult to stay in the RA if you are even at an average activity.
 
Monte: the US Constitution provides for compulsatory attendance for a quorum as a means to prevent too long a lull in decisionmaking. What if we could redefine a quorum instead?

There is no provision in any democratic system for expelling registered voters or assembly members, only by voluntary abstinence in voting by the respective members of either group.

Should democracy be compulsatory? We've all dealt with that one at least once.

@ Southern Acre: If you don't have a nation in the region, how can you be a member of the region? Not that it's a guarantee that people who reside here actually care about TNP, but that's why I moved my "main" nation here (of the 258 I currently own), so there'd be no question where I belonged.

@ Gross: the RA does indeed appear to be more democratic since we the members are the ones who directly make decisions for ourselves. Everyone who can be considered a resident or member of TNP can join the RA. Those who choose not to have no voice.

Summary: Activity requirements are not imho appropriate. You shouldn't compel a man to vote. The only thing we should do is perhaps make sure we have enough to make the vote meaningful. If only one person attends, that's not "fair", but if the others don't care to attend, should they really have a voice?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top