Nosultan and Jargongrad destroy a forum

King Durk the Awesome

King Durk the Awesome

TNPer
This might be big news that the Cabinet should be aware of. Meridianland/Nosultan of Lone Wolves United and Jargongrad of the DEN have apparently griefed the forum of the Renegade Islands Alliance. Here is the announcement on their forums:

Dear RIA, due to the aggressive and unprovoked actions of Shiz throughout his time as founder and member of this region all Senate, Special Forces, Grand Jury, Grand Council and other select threads have been destroyed. Unlike your defender counterparts we don't destroy fun threads or mass delete accounts. We have acted with a reason and we have taken ips.

Signed
Jargongrad, DEN Field Marshal
Meridianland, 4 Star General of Lone Wolves United

P.S. Defenders should think twice about their intelligence actions throughout Nation States as this is not a one off, this is further proof that whatever Fendas can do, Raiders can do it better.



Nosultan was apparently acting as a rogue without the knowledge of the LWU head honchos but Jargongrad WAS the DEN head honcho. Do we want to release a statement?
 
To clear up any misunderstandings I would like to state that NoSultan had been spying on LWU on behalf of RIA for over a year. She then turned on RIA, before LWU ever knew she was a spy, and deleted some government forums and the military forums. She did so without the blessing or knowledge of the other 2/3 of the triumvirite in LWU. As far as LWU is concerned, the only issue to deal with is how to punish NoSultan for spying on them especially seeing as she is claiming to have 'turned to the bright side' making it all the more complicated for them. Seeing as the deletion was carried out by a RIA traitor who happened to be spying on LWU and not a LWU agent, they do not see it as any issue of their concern.

Edit: Had to change "Meridianland" to "NoSultan" :pinch:
 
What does LWU plan to do when punishing NoSultan? Is there any specific sentances that could be given, and if so, are you at this time allowed to share that information with us? Do you know if Jargongrad will face any charges in this as well, reminding myself that he is the DEN leader...

Perhaps it would be a good idea get RIA's side of the story on this one as well. I am keen to hear both sides of the story before I can comment further.

A further comment, Merid was involved recently in the greifing of Utopian Islands. This was also not LWU sanctioned, correct? Are you concerned that Merid may be "too hot to handle"?
 
What does LWU plan to do when punishing NoSultan?
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Merid seems to have broken all defender ties and decided to become an invader so the other Generals in LWU are seriously considering not punishing her at all for spying on them but, rather, exalting her as if she were a devil worshipper who came to accept Christ (exact phrasing was a little different but that was basically it).

As for Utopian Islands, Meridianland was the only person in charge of the military at the time due to the black hole getting between both Scardino and Evil Wolf and their key boards. It is possible that her griefing UI was meant entirely as a smear tactic carried out by RIA but that is not by any means certain. The more likely explanation is that she had already decided to turn to the invader side and that, coupled with certain real life stresses and a few misunderstandings about the region itself, caused her to misjudge the situation and the proper course of action. To anyone who may have my interest in psychology, the applicable theories would be Freud's theory of "Displacement" and Freud's theory of "Reaction Formation".

I'm not sure if Jargongrad will face any punishment though I assume he will not as most people are hesitant to punish themselves. You usually have to worry about the ones who aren't.
 
Why do you expect LWU to punish people when you all condoned the non-punishment of the RLA members who did a similar thing but to a worse extent by maintaining a treaty with the RLA?!

I don't condone forum vandalism at all and thought our stance with the RLA was weak!! I'm just curious why it is such a big deal to you all now?!
 
If the Cabinet is interested in releasing a statement, I've drafted one:

Six months ago, the North Pacific condemned destruction of the Invaders forum with the hope that it would be the last time such a condemnation was necessary. Today, the North Pacific remains steadfast in its respect for the communities that make this game enjoyable and the forums that allow them to thrive.

We hereby condemn the destructive actions of Meridianland and Jargongrad and their attempt to destroy a community simply out of spite. Further, we are disgusted at the willingness of Lone Wolves United and the DEN to give these unsavory characters shelter after their hateful actions. We still insist, however, that Meridianland and Jargongrad are isolated and brought to justice.


EDIT: cut a sentence and changed a couple words.
 
Except TNP didn't really condemn it when the RLA did it, they just bought the "it wasn't an official RLA action" excuse and swept it under the rug!!
 
spin:
Except TNP didn't really condemn it when the RLA did it, they just bought the "it wasn't an official RLA action" excuse and swept it under the rug!!
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what was actually said:
The government of The North Pacific expresses its disgust at the actions of the Red Liberty Alliance in vandalising the forum of Invaders. We are hearby condeming the actions of the RLA and notes that this is not the first time these vial actions have taken place.

The North Pacific will be reviewing diplomatic ties with the Red Liberty Alliance in the near future. We of the North Pacific Government will never approve of such actions.
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posted 7th december 2005 CLICKY
 
My :2c: :

Forum griefing is reprehensible no matter who does it.


R
 
I agree, Roman!!

Thats why the double standard disappoints me!! The RLA played the same card that LWU is playing!! We accepted RLA's excuse but are now batting LWU over the head for using the same excuse!!

Sure, we posted a "condemnation" publicly, but behind the scenes we still cuddled back up to the RLA by way of the Lion Star agreement!! The "condemnation" was nothingmore that PR-inspired lip service when held up against the fact we remained closely ties to the RLA afterwards despite their leadership publicly acclaiming the attack before throwing out a scapegoat when the public backlash was worse that they thought it would be!!

To be consistent, TNP would only need post a public condemnation and leave it at that!! The call for those involved to be expelled etc. would be highlighting the hypocrisy, in my opinion!!
 
I suspect that the most appropriate response would be a general condemnation of 'forum griefing' without naming specific names and incidents would be most politick (pardon the archaic spelling for effect).

Such a general condemnation will be noticed by the offenders in this specific incident yet not offend anyone of consequence, if you catch my drift. Everyone will get it but it doesn't give anyone sufficient cause to get POed.

R
 
I still think it's a good idea to release the statement as is, but if we need a more vague statement:

The North Pacific is shocked and disgusted at the recent act of forum vandalism. We do not feel that it is a legitimate battle tactic that has a place in the game of Nationstates, but rather a personal, out of character tactic used out of spite and hatred. We will remain steadfast against forum destruction, no matter who the aggressor or the victem.

That's all I could come up with...
 
This is absurd. How long does it take us to release a statement? It's just embarassing. We wait until it is a dead issue and then we put out some half hearted "We don't like it" and expect it to mean something. It doesn't. If you release a statement with some balls like saying "We will relentlessly assualt the regions responsible for this travesty" then that might make up for it looking like we've all been asleep for a week.
 
Fedele:
This is absurd. How long does it take us to release a statement? It's just embarassing. We wait until it is a dead issue and then we put out some half hearted "We don't like it" and expect it to mean something. It doesn't. If you release a statement with some balls like saying "We will relentlessly assualt the regions responsible for this travesty" then that might make up for it looking like we've all been asleep for a week.
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With all due respect, Minister - I hardly think that anyone would notice, and indeed care, if TNP was yet again two weeks behind the rest of the world; we're not renowned for our speed in these matters.
 
I'm just drafting up a statement denouncing the handing over of Pixiedance to Ivan!! Should be ready for release soon!!
 
The North Pacific is shocked and disgusted at the recent act of forum vandalism. We do not feel that it is a legitimate battle tactic that has a place in the game of Nationstates, but rather a personal, out of character tactic used out of spite and hatred. We will remain steadfast against forum destruction, no matter who the aggressor or the victim.
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Perhaps add:

Due to the history of forum troubles The North Pacific has had, we sympathize with the victims of this forum raid and others that have taken place. Let it be known that should this tactic continue, the agressor will be considered to have declared war on the soverignty of all regions that operate on off-site forums, including our own region, and that The North Pacific WILL respond accordingly.
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This tactic is simply ridiculous. And it needs to be stopped now before it gets out of hand.
 
Hersfold:
The North Pacific is shocked and disgusted at the recent act of forum vandalism. We do not feel that it is a legitimate battle tactic that has a place in the game of Nationstates, but rather a personal, out of character tactic used out of spite and hatred. We will remain steadfast against forum destruction, no matter who the aggressor or the victim.
Click to expand...

Perhaps add:

Due to the history of forum troubles The North Pacific has had, we sympathize with the victims of this forum raid and others that have taken place. Let it be known that should this tactic continue, the agressor will be considered to have declared war on the soverignty of all regions that operate on off-site forums, including our own region, and that The North Pacific WILL respond accordingly.
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This tactic is simply ridiculous. And it needs to be stopped now before it gets out of hand.
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While I think it's important to express that we disaprove of the action, the implication that "if it continues, we'll make your lives a living hell" is a bit much. Yes it's important that the forum be protected from incursion, however the current incident was somewhat invited for Admining someone who was not 150% checked out by everybody.

I suspect that the Invader/Defender organizations need to work this out amongst themselves. Let them come to the accord. We don't really play that game...
 
AlHoma:
While I think it's important to express that we disaprove of the action, the implication that "if it continues, we'll make your lives a living hell" is a bit much. Yes it's important that the forum be protected from incursion, however the current incident was somewhat invited for Admining someone who was not 150% checked out by everybody.

I suspect that the Invader/Defender organizations need to work this out amongst themselves. Let them come to the accord. We don't really play that game...
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How about, considered persona non grata by the government of The North Pacific? Or whatever the heck the correct term is for someone that will *not* be allowed to venture here?

Taking on the DEN would be an... interesting proposition.
 
The horse has not only bolted, it has long since died of old age!!

What is the point of releasing a statement eons after the event?!
 
:rofl:

It's funny because its true. Let's just keep working on this and, by the time it happens again next year, we will have finished with at least an hour to spare.
 
I'd feel much better about issuing a late statement than not issuing one at all and appearing to ignore the issue. "Better late than never", no?

It sounds like the non grata thing would work just fine. I hadn't really expected the "declaration of war" thing to be too popular, but I wanted to make sure my point got across.

So new statement:

The North Pacific is shocked and disgusted at the recent act of forum vandalism. We do not feel that it is a legitimate battle tactic that has a place in the game of Nationstates, but rather a personal, out of character tactic used out of spite and hatred. We will remain steadfast against forum destruction, no matter who the aggressor or the victim.

Due to the history of forum troubles The North Pacific has had, we sympathize with the victims of this forum raid and others that have taken place. Let it be known that should this tactic continue, the perpertrator(s) will be considered a persona non grata in the region of The North Pacific, and as such will never be welcome in our forums or region for the crimes they have committed against the soverignty and freedom of others.
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If we could get a vote on this passed very quickly, I'm about to disappear for another week. Sorry.

Edit to match change suggested below. We have 2 votes in favor and 1 against so far.
 
IMO, I say we just keep our mouths shut now.

Any statement will make us look slow and ineffecient. The lack of statement fits in well with our neutral approach. Why stick our noses in business that has nothing to do with us?
 
If I may...

Hersfold:
The North Pacific is shocked and disgusted at the recent act of forum vandalism. We do not feel that it is a legitimate battle tactic that has a place in the game of Nationstates, but rather a personal, out of character tactic used out of spite and hatred. We will remain steadfast against forum destruction, no matter who the aggressor or the victim.

Due to the history of forum troubles The North Pacific has had, we sympathize with the victims of this forum raid and others that have taken place. Let it be known that should this tactic continue, the agressor perpertrator(s) will be considered a persona non grata in the region of The North Pacific, and as such will never be welcome in our forums or region for the crimes they have committed against the soverignty and freedom of others.
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1. It leaves the door open for non-grata ing several people in a single stroke (If they act toghter)
2. I don't think that destroying IC forum sections is a agressive act. I think it's a criminal act.

I'll vote for the unmodified statement, but if we have time I'd like to suggest this change
 
AlHoma:
2. I don't think that destroying IC forum sections is a agressive act. I think it's a criminal act.
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In my mind, it is.

Your edit makes sense, I'll throw it in. Doesn't affect much anyway, mainly semantics.
 
I'd have to agree with Poltsamaa in that this statement would count for nothing after being released so late other than making us all look incompetant and slow. The issue is now a dead issue so a lack of a statement on our part will fit in nicely with everyone else in NationStates. Hell, even RIA has stopped talking about it. Shouldn't that tell us something?

Also, The DEN is completely isolated from regions outside of the raider community. I doubt that if TNP released a statement they would ever even know, or care, about it.
 
I'm leaving in less than an hour. At present, the vote is tied.

Since this needs to go out, I'm closing the vote and voting in favor to break the tie. The statement has been posted in the MoEA's office and in my own.

If this makes us seem slow or lazy, too bad. People are clamoring for a statement on the matter, and if people can't recognize the fact that people do have lives outside of NationStates, they need to go find one of their own.
 
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